Are Beaters the Weights on Ronaldo’s Ankles?

[DoubleOhStephan]

10 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

Interesting reading...

Thanks, that's the main thing. 

11 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I would say that you are successful "despite" starting on a crappy bass, not "because" of it.

Hey, no one ever said I was successful! 😂

I inclined to agree though, this is what's been in the back of my mind when I think of properly successful people like Hendrix who's first guitar was a piece of junk. 

12 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

You probably had to "unlearn" all the errors in your technique which you developed because of the badly put together bass. You could probably blame the poor quality guitars which sit in the corner of people's rooms for there not being more great guitarists.

I'm not sure that I learned bad technique though, I genuinely do think it was a valuable learning experience. In particular, having to learn to support a heavy headstock I think improved my playing cos I had to learn to move up and down the neck whilst countering the weight. Once I moved to a better balanced instrument, I instantly felt the benefit. 

Don't know if I'd blame the quality of guitars on lack of players. You could argue that with today's quality of instrument there would be more players than ever?

[DoubleOhStephan]

1 hour ago, scalpy said:

A anecdote I heard was that Jaco himself had a P with monster strings and high action for this very purpose. Never seen it quoted anywhere else mind. It’s a strategy I’ve used on occasion- I have an acoustic it takes a G clamp to hold a note on and it certainly makes my electric basses seem like a breeze. But whether it’s a sensible option for beginners is another question as the more experienced player has had the opportunity to gradually condition their playing physique and good technique. I’d fear a beginner would end up trying brute force and hurting themselves. 

If it's good enough for Jaco... 😂😂

[Nicko]

The OP seems to be missing the point with Ronaldo's training.  He didn't start off using the ankle weights he progressed to them.  By this token we shoud all start off with super easy basses to play, then swich to massivey high action and huge string gauges once we have developed some stamina and technique.

And Ronaldo, while being a great footballer, is a massive bell end.

[skej21]

9 minutes ago, Nicko said:

The OP seems to be missing the point with Ronaldo's training.  He didn't start off using the ankle weights he progressed to them.  By this token we shoud all start off with super easy basses to play, then swich to massivey high action and huge string gauges once we have developed some stamina and technique.

And Ronaldo, while being a great footballer, is a massive bell end.

Totally agree. OP missed the important point.

In the Ronaldo story, he has made a decision to challenge himself. At the point this decision has been made, his technique would already be at an advanced stage, his diet would have been designed specifically with a team of chefs and nutritionists etc, his knowledge of the risk of injury would be coupled with the advice of some of the best trainers/doctors at an established sporting business. He is an athlete but not through his own hard work. It is the combination of his desire to push himself and the support of a vast knowledge base of trained professionals. 

Throwing a cheap bass at an inexperienced bassist is not really the same. It'd be comparable to placing weights on the ankles of a toddler who is just learning to walk and expecting them to get the same benefit as Ronaldo.

[DoubleOhStephan]

@Nicko & @skej21 ahh you got me! 😁

Yep, I hadn't concidered that, good points. 

Interesting thought about having a more difficult bass to as you progress, much like the Jaco anecdote yesterday. 

Cheers! 

[Davo-London]

Not sure I buy this.

Firstly, if you have a guitar or bass with a high action it will not encourage you to play.  Secondly, applying high pressure to the stings may lead to poor technique and wrist problems in the future.

I do think a beater will help a learner appreciate a good bass in future.  But if you pick well, a modern beater bass may feel good, with a nice low action.  So I'm not sure of the value of the beater as suggested by the OP.

interesting thought though, but I'm not buying.

Peace

Davo

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Davo-London

[DoubleOhStephan]

15 minutes ago, Davo-London said:

Not sure I buy this.

Firstly, if you have a guitar or bass with a high action it will not encourage you to play.  Secondly, applying high pressure to the stings may lead to poor technique and wrist problems in the future.

I do think a beater will help a learner appreciate a good bass in future.  But if you pick well, a modern beater bass may feel good, with a nice low action.  So I'm not sure of the value of the beater as suggested by the OP.

interesting thought though, but I'm not buying.

Peace

Davo

 

 

Yeah, fair play. As I said right at the top of the post, I wasn't sure how to think about this either, it was a thought experiment for me as much as anything. 

I'm still not 100% convinced that a high action = poor technique & injury. I'm thinking double bass players who started and continue to use high action without issue? 

Either way, I'm glad you found it interesting 😁

[Davo-London]

I did and good shout.  Good point about DB, the hand position is different on DB but again it is important to start with good technique.  I'm a drummer too and the hand technique is so important to get right to prevent all sorts of posture issues (back, shoulders, legs, ankles etc).  Fortunately with drums, even with horrible drums as long as the skins are at a reasonable tension the bounce is all you need to get good technique.  A double bass will always have high(ish) action and so that's part of playing the instrument.

Interesting exposition ...

Davo

 

[ambient]

I wonder how many people have bought cheap and poor quality musical instruments over the years, struggled to be able to play them then abandoned them?

Most beginners, indeed even a lot of seasoned players don’t possess the knowledge or abilities to make the necessary adjustments to get an instrument playable. I always tell students to beg or borrow that little bit more and get something decent, that won’t either inhibit their creatively or put them off playing.

[DoubleOhStephan]

47 minutes ago, ambient said:

I wonder how many people have bought cheap and poor quality musical instruments over the years, struggled to be able to play them then abandoned them?

Most beginners, indeed even a lot of seasoned players don’t possess the knowledge or abilities to make the necessary adjustments to get an instrument playable. I always tell students to beg or borrow that little bit more and get something decent, that won’t either inhibit their creatively or put them off playing.

I think it's about 12 or 13ish per year, but don't quote me on that 😁

Seriously though, I think people are putting too much onus on a good set up or decent instrument being a reason for beginners quitting. Take yourself back to when you first started and try to remember just how hard it actually was to learn to play the guitar. All the hours of dedication and practice needed, playing the same repetitive scale or same few notes over and over again to get it just right. 

I believe that it takes a certain mindset to play any instrument. Bass in particular really isn't suited to an awful lot of people which I believe is a much more important concideration than set up, low action or poor quality.

It's not easy to keep a new player interested, especially in bass! It's not like an acoustic guitar, where you learn a couple of chords and can quite quickly have a sing along. Beginner bass lines can be really very boring, especially unaccompanied. Unless, of course, you have that particular mindset and take pleasure from that repetitiveness, which I'd argue, most if not all bassist do.

Thing is, people give up playing instruments all the time. Sometimes they find it's just not for them, sometimes it's just too hard, or it takes too long to get good, or they've got no one to play with (this is a killer for bassists imo). Sometimes they find a different instrument, or they actually don't want to sit on their own for hours playing the same thing over and over again, they'd rather be out playing sport, drinking beer, chasing the opposite sex or whatever, a million different reasons. 

I just think that, as the general consensus is that pretty much all new entry level guitars are now built to a much higher standard than 20+ years ago, playability being the reason for quitting should, in theory, be much lower down the "reasons for quitting" list than its being given credit for. On top of that, learning material has never been so abundant! And I don't mean learning how to play, but how to set up and maintain a guitar. That pushes set up etc. even further down the quit list.

Low quality instruments didn't seem to put off a whole load of players who started in the 60s to 90s. I know "earning your stripes" has been dismissed already, but in the heyday of guitar playing, I would suggest very few people could afford a nice Fender so would start playing cheapo Kays from the catalogue. We'll never know how many people quit then because of that, but I have this nagging feeling there is an element of survival of the fittest at play and the harder it is to break out of the shell, the stronger the complete package will be. If you can't get out the shell, you die in the sand...