Wenge necks vs maple necks

[silverfoxnik]

Hi Folks,

I'm looking to get another 5 string and have been considering different options, one of which is Eubassix's Valenti Modern Jazz 5, but I've no idea what the difference is between a wenge neck (which the Valenti has) and a maple neck, which is more commonly used on Fender's.

So I wondered if any of you BC'ers have had experience of both types of neck and can describe how they affect the sound, feel and playability of a bass?

I know loads of other factors come into play like elctronics, p/ups etc but any words of wisdom on this would be much appreciated as ever!!

Cheers

Nik

[Lfalex v1.1]

Well, not on the same model or type of bass, but yes.
I own a Warwick Streamer LX6 with an all-wenge neck and a Wenge Fretboard.
I have various Maple-necked instruments, sporting (equally variously) Rosewood, Maple, Pau Ferro and Phenolic Fretboards.

The Wenge necks can be a bit rough to begin with, but they soon wear in. The Streamer's neck hasn't been adjusted since I bought it. 10 years ago!
It does seem to stay put, but it is a big bit of wood! It's quite open sounding, and contributes to the old Warwick "Grrrrrrrr". Plenty of mid articulation.

Maple is smoother to the touch and gives a variety of differing tonal characteristics dependent on the fretboard. Phenolic is almost "Not there" in a tonal sense. Maple is really punchy and has a degree of "compression" to its sound that cuts through he mix well. Rosewood is more neutral than Maple, and more even and mature sounding - an airy upper register and smoother darker bottom end result.
I've had some maple necks be affected by humidity and temperature changes. Nothing chronic, though.

Hope this helps a bit

[simon1964]

I have a Warwick with an Ovangkol neck with Wenge board and a Jazz which is maple on maple. The last reply sums up the difference in sound well.

The Warwick has a much darker, rounder sound - the classic Warwick growl. The Jazz is brighter and arguably more defined. It doesn't have the thump of the Warwick, but does cut through the mix better live. Other factors affect the sound of course, but the wenge/ovangkol definately has a real impact on the sound and feel of the bass.

I love the feel of the Warwick. Difficult to describe, but to me the neck feels very natural and ''woody''. The Jazz is very playable too, but has much more ''ordinary'' feel to it. That's all down to personal choice of course!

[alexclaber]

I've always liked Michael Tobias's way of describing the tonal effects of different woods:

"A wenge neck and board add compression and focus to the speaking voice of the bass. A maple neck and rosewood board is more open and slightly warmer than a maple neck and maple board. Ebony on maple is very quick in its response with lots of snap. I have been trying ash as a neck material and found it to be leaning towards wenge but more open."

I agree!

Alex

[Kiwi]

I think a maple neck with a couple of laminates of wenge is aural nirvana. Growl, warmth, brightness... ...its all there.

[s_u_y_*]

[quote name='simon1964' post='36934' date='Jul 25 2007, 04:44 PM']I love the feel of the Warwick. Difficult to describe, but to me the neck feels very natural and ''woody''. The Jazz is very playable too, but has much more ''ordinary'' feel to it. That's all down to personal choice of course![/quote]

I agree. I love my wenge neck on my Warwick. It feels fantastic to touch.

[ARGH]

Size and scale affect tone,the actual woods influence is minimal.

All else is personal taste and aesthetics,If you like the look and feel of it,choose it.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='36985' date='Jul 25 2007, 07:14 PM']I've always liked Michael Tobias's way of describing the tonal effects of different woods:

"A wenge neck and board add compression and focus to the speaking voice of the bass. A maple neck and rosewood board is more open and slightly warmer than a maple neck and maple board. Ebony on maple is very quick in its response with lots of snap. I have been trying ash as a neck material and found it to be leaning towards wenge but more open."

I agree!

Alex[/quote]
Thanks for all the replies folks! Really helpful..

Seems to be then that, as a rule of thumb, wenge is a 'darker, more compressed' sounding wood than maple. Mike Tobias is well known as an expert on tonewoods and his comments make a lot of sense and also support what you've all said here, which is good as it shows that the BC community members really know their stuff!

Just gotta decide what to do now about the bass now.

Nik

[ARGH]

Its Hokum...

Just use good wood.

[Tinman]

[quote name='ARGH' post='37033' date='Jul 25 2007, 09:57 PM']Size and scale affect tone,the actual woods influence is minimal.

All else is personal taste and aesthetics,If you like the look and feel of it,choose it.[/quote]

Surely (and don't flame me for this) if that was the case, wouldn't more manufacturers be advocating the use of plexiglass etc?

[Wil]

Of course wood choice affects tone! Different wood = different grain, resonance, and density which affects the way your bass vibrates. The way your bass vibrates affects the way your strings vibrate, so clearly it will have an effect on tone. I have a graphite neck on one of my Status basses, and a maple neck on the other. The tone difference is staggering (the necks and bodies are exactly the same profile and size btw). The maple definately adds a midrange hump that is not there with the graphite neck.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Wil' post='37283' date='Jul 26 2007, 12:32 PM']Of course wood choice affects tone! Different wood = different grain, resonance, and density which affects the way your bass vibrates. The way your bass vibrates affects the way your strings vibrate, so clearly it will have an effect on tone. I have a graphite neck on one of my Status basses, and a maple neck on the other. The tone difference is staggering (the necks and bodies are exactly the same profile and size btw). The maple definately adds a midrange hump that is not there with the graphite neck.[/quote]

+1. You only need to compare one of the all maple limited edition Warwicks (eg the bleached blonde) to a standard Warwick Thumb. The sound is noticeably different. Not better or worse - but definately different.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='ARGH' post='37143' date='Jul 26 2007, 07:32 AM']Its Hokum...

Just use good wood.[/quote]

So you're saying that the massive variation in stiffness, hardness, self-damping, density, and so on, between different species of wood has no bearing on how the string vibrates?

Alex

[MythSte]

Ahh wenge! My wood of choice in any situation! Theres just something about the feel of it. its just right!

[Alpha-Dave]

IMHO the p'ups are a more significant factor.

If you have single coils, you will hear the differences in the wood.

If you have humbuckers wired in parallel you will hear a sublte difference

If you have humbuckers wired in serise you will hear a pretty much no difference

If you have active p'ups (EMGs are the only ones I can site) you bass could be made of steel or sponge, it'll still sounds like and EMG loaded bass to me.


... so IMHO yes, wood can make a difference, but you have to have the right p'ups to tell it's there.

[eubassix]

Wenge is the 'way-to-go' ... believe me (...LOL !!).

I'd agree with the more constructive comments above re. the wood/sound nature (and certainly would never disagree with MTobias !) - but just wanted to add that the Wenge on the Valenti is a closer grained variety than I've seen on many Warwicks and is nice & smooth (much faster than a finished neck.. not as fast as a 60/70's vintage / worn maple!).
Also, if A-D's pickup(s) - influence is correct, which I'm sure it is to some degree, then the Valenti's layout:
1-Volume w/p/p for preamp bypass
2-Blend
3-Treble w/p/p for Neck position P/U for Humbucker mode to Single Coil mode
4-Mids with w/p/p for Mid Shift
5-Bass w/p/p for Bridge position P/U for Humbucker mode to Single Coil mode
.. does help counter the woods/pickups dichotomy.

Hope this helps (.. without prejudice)

[ARGH]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='37295' date='Jul 26 2007, 12:55 PM']So you're saying that the massive variation in stiffness, hardness, self-damping, density, and so on, between different species of wood has no bearing on how the string vibrates?

Alex[/quote]

a little bearing,but not as much as is made out.

What are the strings pressing on?

Metal frets. ok I'll give you fretless has a lot more to do with wood,but thats personal choice,what one man likes another hates..

All you are wanting a neck to do is remain stable,so it keeps true and the string stays in tune,if it looks good then you have a bonus.

Scale changes sound,because that physics,electronics change sound....active vs passive..tone controls..boost/cut etc.

I just find this kinda funny.....

[Kiwi]

What one person thinks is good may not appeal to another person. However the purpose of this thread is to seek where the general consensus of opinion lies. Its all good and I think variations in perception will occur according to the number and variety of basses each individual has tried and/or built.

There's also a tremendous variation in wood but I think its ultimately all a balancing act. That point of balance varies for everyone and...





...there are a multitude of approaches to achieving that balance, depending on what is most important to a player.

Are you a planes, boats or smiley-creepy-crawlies man? Oh wait, its about maple and wenge isn't it?

[ARGH]

[quote name='Wil' post='37283' date='Jul 26 2007, 12:32 PM']Of course wood choice affects tone! Different wood = different grain, resonance, and density which affects the way your bass vibrates. The way your bass vibrates affects the way your strings vibrate, so clearly it will have an effect on tone. I have a graphite neck on one of my Status basses, and a maple neck on the other. The tone difference is staggering (the necks and bodies are exactly the same profile and size btw). The maple definately adds a midrange hump that is not there with the graphite neck.[/quote]


No

I think how and where you pluck the string will effect the way your strings vibrate the most,and yeah a different material,such as ultra stiff Graphite will make the instrument sound different,but if it was the holy grail,we would all be doing it,but then again...forgive me if Im wrong,you are still pressing down on metal frets. And perception of the player is a person to person thing,but when it comes down to it,banging on about 'vibrations and resonances and densitys' means little when the mathematics of scale come into play. And surely bodily vibrations are the last of what an instrument wants...feedback. late 60s semi hollows vibrated wonderfully,but their failings gave us the experiments in active systems,and very different sounds.


having similer dimension basses..profile etc,isnt really a great judge.

I always remember some guitarists trying out strats...the tales of 'having to try out x until I found the one i liked'

Its just taste,aesthetics,trust me if you could make a neck from purpleheart I would buy it tomorrow,but thats coz I like the look of the wood in the light. But you cant argue with the fact that Scale affects tone over pretty much all factors,wood being one of them. Now I know you will start saying "But X maker says this" and yes X maker says that...but Y maker says different from X....and hes been making Instruments longer,yet Newbie Makers Q and J have a different opinion again.


Do you like maple as a neckwood..ok,good,do you prefer Wenge? Well great. But discussing it beyond what is stable,and looks/feels nice is kinda...

well...dumb.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Tinman' post='37272' date='Jul 26 2007, 12:17 PM']Surely (and don't flame me for this) if that was the case, wouldn't more manufacturers be advocating the use of plexiglass etc?[/quote]

If market demanded hell yeah!

If (INSERT FAVE BASSMAKER HERE) insisted that Tapioca rice lam'd between Gnatwood was the new tonal nirvana,Im sure a quantity of people on here would be insisting of having it installed asap. Its taste,but then Reality kicks in,when the next 'tonal craze' comes along.

Edited July 26, 2007 by ARGH

[Kiwi]

[quote name='ARGH' post='37534' date='Jul 26 2007, 09:05 PM']Do you like maple as a neckwood..ok,good,do you prefer Wenge? Well great. But discussing it beyond what is stable,and looks/feels nice is kinda...[/quote]

...still valid. I think some input from people who have more experience - ie. luthiers, would be quite helpful at this point.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='ARGH' post='37524' date='Jul 26 2007, 08:43 PM']a little bearing,but not as much as is made out.

What are the strings pressing on?

Metal frets. ok I'll give you fretless has a lot more to do with wood,but thats personal choice,what one man likes another hates..

All you are wanting a neck to do is remain stable,so it keeps true and the string stays in tune,if it looks good then you have a bonus.

Scale changes sound,because that physics,electronics change sound....active vs passive..tone controls..boost/cut etc.

I just find this kinda funny.....[/quote]

It's all very well talking down to us as though we're impressed by the emperor's new clothes but your overly simplistic view leaves your position untenable. Spend some more time thinking about what's really happening in the very complex feedback system that is a stringed instrument, be it acoustic or electric, and then you'll see that it is not just scale length that changes sound 'because that physics' (sic) but also instrument construction. What happens to the energy introduced into the system when you pluck the string?

I agree that the most important thing is how the individual plays the instrument, and that pickup location, aperture and construction have a huge bearing on tone, but the electric bass is first and foremost an acoustic instrument.

Alex

[Kiwi]

[quote name='ARGH' post='37535' date='Jul 26 2007, 09:12 PM']If (INSERT FAVE BASSMAKER HERE) insisted that Tapioca rice lam'd between Gnatwood was the new tonal nirvana,Im sure a quantity of people on here would be insisting of having it installed asap. Its taste,but then Reality kicks in,when the next 'tonal craze' comes along.[/quote]

Thats a bit insulting to those who think wood does make a difference and particularly to those who are interested in exploring other alternatives to ash/maple. The way I see it, you can't rule out the influence of wood, any more than you can include the effect of all the other elements you've mentioned. As I stated before, its a balancing act and each part contributes to the overall whole.

In any event I happen to own two basses that are, for all intents and purposes, identical apart from their neck material. Any bass player doing an A/B of these instruments would hear and feel for themselves that neck material has a substantial influence on the sound of an instrument.

I think it's a no brainer.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='37560' date='Jul 26 2007, 10:38 PM']Thats a bit insulting to those who think wood does make a difference and particularly to those who are interested in exploring other alternatives to ash/maple. The way I see it, you can't rule out the influence of wood, any more than you can include the effect of all the other elements you've mentioned. As I stated before, its a balancing act and each part contributes to the overall whole.

In any event I happen to own two basses that are, for all intents and purposes, identical apart from their neck material. Any bass player doing an A/B of these instruments would hear and feel for themselves that neck material has a substantial influence on the sound of an instrument.

I think it's a no brainer.[/quote]
Looks like the 'can of worms' has been well and truly opened here!! Here's my 2p worth on the subject..

I used to have two Wal Pro 2e basses about 12 years ago that were made of the same body wood (Ash), same neck (maple with rosewood board), same Wal electronics etc and yet they sounded quite different and felt different to play. The key difference was in the weight of the Ash used for the body - there was probably about one and a half pounds difference in the weight of the two basses! A bit puzzled by this, I spoke to a brilliant luthier (in Harrow, North London) called Bill Puplett about it and he said that when two instruments are tuned and strung the same, the energy produced by each string is the same but if the woods are of different density/weight, then the two instruments will resonate differently. Bottom line is, the difference in the resonance of the wood affects the feel of the bass in your hands and also, in the sound the pick up is reproducing...

I can't prove that scientifically of course, but Bill was a guy who's opinion I respected greatly and his explanation is still good enough for me!

Nik

[basscki]

Surely there must be someone who has tried to resolve this question beforehand in a systematic way? Maybe a luthier as suggested by CrazyKiwi?
If you look at the main visible source of sound - a string visibly vibrating in a magnetic field of the pickup effectively secured at both ends against the metal of the fret and the bridge versus the miniscule flex/resonance of the wood then I find it hard to see how the wood can make much difference to the sound in comparison. Surely minor variations in pickup configuration, maybe even the electrics variation from bass to bass may make a difference, and that could be attributed to the more visible 'wood' attribute in otherwise identical instruments.
That said I am perfectly willing to be convinced otherwise! I find it quite surprising the emotional investment people put into these discussions. One way way or another basses do vary significantly and we all enjoy exploring the differences...