Wenge necks vs maple necks

[Mrs Tinman]

Bu**er, bu**er, bu**er - I told Tinman that there was money to be made by experimenting with Leylandii as the new 'must have' wood with which to construct bass geetars

Silly sod went and chopped 'em down and burnt 'em instead

[Kiwi]

Leylandii should be classed as weeds OK, lets get back on topic now ppl, maple vs wenge.

If people would like to talk more generally about the influence of materials on sound, we can split the topic up into two threads so they carry on independently.

[The Burpster]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='37560' date='Jul 26 2007, 10:38 PM']Thats a bit insulting to those who think wood does make a difference and particularly to those who are interested in exploring other alternatives to ash/maple. The way I see it, you can't rule out the influence of wood, any more than you can include the effect of all the other elements you've mentioned. As I stated before, its a balancing act and each part contributes to the overall whole.

In any event I happen to own two basses that are, for all intents and purposes, identical apart from their neck material. Any bass player doing an A/B of these instruments would hear and feel for themselves that neck material has a substantial influence on the sound of an instrument.

I think it's a no brainer.[/quote]


I'm afraid I have to concur with CK on this one.... I as he, also have to all intents two guitars teh same. both have maple necks but one is maple fingerboard the other rosewood..... these two sound different with the same strings....

I'm afriad that I believe wood DOES make a difference.. You may believe different and you are entitled to that opinion and I respect that..... However there are those of us that do..... I guess we will just have to agree to differ.....

Now where are those alien comics I most revise my invasion dates......

[chris_b]

Of course wood can make a significant difference to the sound of a musical instrument. The sound is generated by vibrations and woods vibrate differently. I guess that wouldn't have made any difference to Sid Vicious but it does interest a lot of us and it is a fact.

We have already established, in another topic, that Badass bridges make a significant improvement to a bass sound so why discount the effect of the wood? Bolt on and through necks also affect the sound of a bass differently.

[The Funk]

I think CK was right earlier when he said it's a balancing act between all the different factors, and therefore in some basses the wood used for the neck will have more or less of an effect on the sound - and to be fair, I think even ARGH recognises that different necks will affect the sound differently (as with Graphite necks, as he pointed out). He just seemed to suggest that the difference was negligable.

So I think we can agree that there is an objective difference that differs from bass to bass but that the importance we place on it subjectively will also differ from person to person.

Now, back on topic, I've never tried a Jazz with a wenge neck or a Warwick with a maple neck, so I don't know what kind of difference they'd make to the balance of the sound but, if you want to hear what a wenge neck sounds like, try out a Warwick, and if you want to hear what a maple neck sounds like, try out a Fender/Musicman. I think the comments above provide a helpful rough guide though: maple = bright, clear, defined; wenge = growly, meaty.

[ARGH]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='37552' date='Jul 26 2007, 10:02 PM']but the electric bass is first and foremost an acoustic instrument.

Alex[/quote]
You have outdone yourself there Alex,I thought 'Positional playing on an ERB is laziness' was the pinnicle,but hats off.....I applaud.


Ok,Take your pickups out and the electronics and see how far you get on your next gig.

The is NO Alchemy or absolute to building an instrument or within an instruments construction re:tone. What you ,and others are failing to take into account is that although a species does have certain properties,the scope is wide and varied. For example maple 'will' be more trebly than Mahogany,but in reality there are some REALLY trebley Mahogany guitars and bassy maple guitars...Luthiers have to work within trends,as said there aint no absolutes.

You can get two Basses made of the same wood,even the same tree,with exactly the same elctronics,and they will feel and play differently thanks to density,grain direction,pickup winding pattern,many factors..etc etc Not only does it vary in species,the same species,but it wil vary across the length of a board/neck..attach that neck to another bass with the same body material and that sound you have been enjoying is different.

So it was not the neck governing tone..was it the body..no....telling the difference between maple and Wenge is extraordinarily difficult

Its the player,and the scale and the electronics.

Dear Alex. Fret a 3rd fret G,on the 36" custom when you get it..then the same note on your regular 4 string,Downtune the 4 to B,then play the 5s B. Thats the difference. The constant factor is you....or whoever picks up that instrument,the scale is the change.

Why would a luthier make 2 guitars the same just to see if they sounded different? (Fender/Gibson do that every day).

It just astounds me that a few weeks back everyone was saying ,when I pick up an instrument it sounds like me,and now we are saying the neckwood governs our tone,so what is it then....

Neckwood is personal choice,I dont like Wenge much,I was brought up on P basses so I like Maple under my thumb,but dont attribute it to X Tone is better or makes this noise,because thats just rubbish.

[mr_russ]

I've owned and played basses with maple necks that I've loved, and others I've hated-
I've owned and played basses with wenge neck that I've loved, and again others I've hated

I'm certain in myself that the wood does affect tone, but the variation between seemingly identical instruments can be so profound it's almost impossible to say without doubt which I prefer.

I've disliked most wenge necked warwicks I've played- and swiftly connected the main outstanding feature (the wenge neck) with that dislike.
Yet my old Sei original 5 was made almost entirely of the stuff and it was fantastic.

Like CK said, it's all a balancing act.

I try not to judge a bass by the wood it's made of anymore- if it sounds good and feels good- it is good, whether it's made of ash or mdf.

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='ARGH' post='38033' date='Jul 28 2007, 07:52 AM']You have outdone yourself there Alex,I thought 'Positional playing on an ERB is laziness' was the pinnicle,but hats off.....I applaud.
Ok,Take your pickups out and the electronics and see how far you get on your next gig.[/quote]

I think Alex meant that a solid bodied (or chambered/semi acoustic for that matter) is subject to all sorts of internal sound resonances and reflections, similar to a true acoustic instrument. All an acoustic only instrument does is take these initial vibrations and amplify the sound via the air mass contained within the instrument. Because a solid body is not amplifying the sound directly, you could argue that the effect of changing the neck wood will be more pronounced, as the neck isn't competing with an efficiently vibrating body and a contained air mass that overwhelms the 'sound' of the neck.

Statistically, different species of wood will have different sound transmission and reflection properties, although you are absolutely correct to point out that wood is not a static homogeneous substance within the same species or even tree.

Because of this very fact, testing different neck woods scientifically is going to be next to impossible due to the hundreds of potential variables that cannot be rigourously controlled. Like you say, no two pieces of wood are identical, but there is likely to be enough statistical similarity to make the point valid enough. It's one of those instances where practical science might not be wholly applicable and we have to make judgements based on our ears and experience. I'm happy to trust mine.

[The Funk]

As you can see from the intensity of this discussion, it's always best to try out a bass before you buy it!

[ARGH]

[quote name='mr_russ' post='38050' date='Jul 28 2007, 09:07 AM']I've owned and played basses with maple necks that I've loved, and others I've hated-
I've owned and played basses with wenge neck that I've loved, and again others I've hated

I'm certain in myself that the wood does affect tone, but the variation between seemingly identical instruments can be so profound it's almost impossible to say without doubt which I prefer.

I've disliked most wenge necked warwicks I've played- and swiftly connected the main outstanding feature (the wenge neck) with that dislike.
Yet my old Sei original 5 was made almost entirely of the stuff and it was fantastic.

Like CK said, it's all a balancing act.

I try not to judge a bass by the wood it's made of anymore- if it sounds good and feels good- it is good, whether it's made of ash or mdf.[/quote]

Is wood good? Good wood is!

[mr_russ]

[quote name='ARGH' post='38201' date='Jul 28 2007, 05:55 PM']Is wood good? Good wood is![/quote]

[tempo]

I own both (a wenge/purpleheart necked Conklin 7, and a maple/rosewood Ibanez 5.) The Ibanez sounds very much like any other bolt-on maple bass (unplugged) to me, very springy and open, where as the wenge neck seems a bit darker/smoother, a more compressed sound. The Barts emphasize this when plugged in. My preference is always on the feel, and to me unfinished necks are a must, and wenge with its coarse grain is perfect. Sanded maple a close second.

Pete.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='ARGH' post='38033' date='Jul 28 2007, 07:52 AM']You have outdone yourself there Alex,I thought 'Positional playing on an ERB is laziness' was the pinnicle,but hats off.....I applaud.[/quote]

Once again, my point was that where you play a note should be determined by the sound you need balanced against how well you play that note (i.e. can you get to and from it without overstretching your technique). Playing in position with complete disregard to certain notes sounding better elsewhere on the neck is laziness.

[quote name='ARGH' post='38033' date='Jul 28 2007, 07:52 AM']Ok,Take your pickups out and the electronics and see how far you get on your next gig.[/quote]

All my songwriting and home practice is done unplugged. The pickups allow me to amplify the instrument to live volumes but they are amplifying the acoustic tone of the instrument filtered through their particular view of the instrument, just like a mic on a double bass.

Nothing is absolute in luthiery but everything matters - in fact you've said that yourself. Yet you then contradict yourself by claiming it is just the player, the scale length, and the electronics. For those who want a fuller understanding of your stance, maybe they should read this interview with Carl Thompson:

[url="http://www.ctbasses.com/CTinterview.html"]http://www.ctbasses.com/CTinterview.html[/url]

Alex

[Dood]

Off topic and changing the subject just a little bit, I read Carl's interview and have to say I found it all a bit wishy washy. He was no doubt wanting to be honest yet modest at the same time!

There are some points that I didn't agree with, but it's only opinion so I won't dwell on them. However, some of his basses do have a refreshingly 'different' sound to them, thats for sure.

The highlight for me was:

[quote]Carl: I have no idea. I wouldn't know what anyone was talking about. Anyone talks about how I can get them the sound I don't know what they are talking about.[/quote]

I feel sure as a luthier he does. he does right?