Time Wasters.

[Dan Dare]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

Possibly worth adding that the first time I ever sold a guitar on eBay, I got contacted by someone who was very clearly trying to launder money - the guitar sold for about £600, and could I do him a favour so that he pays £10,000 into my bank account and then I forward the change to a different bank account as it's easier than him transferring the money himself.  Even said that he wasn't that fussed about getting the guitar as he was in Africa and my ad said UK buyers only and if I wanted a couple of hundred extra to cover my additional costs that was OK

Again, from an ad saying PayPal only...so I'm always twitchy about "buyers" who either haven't read the ad or have read it and decided that the bits they don't like shouldn't apply to them.  Why take the risk?

They probably weren't even trying to launder money. The scam is that they appear to have paid money onto your account, but the payment is not confirmed. It shows on your account, but funds have not actually been received. You then send the £9,400 off and a week later, the "payment" disappears from your account, leaving you out of pocket.

[Monkey Steve]

12 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

No,

You transfer the money back to him. He then reclaims £10-K via paypal.

no

he wanted my bank account details so that he could transfer the money - nothing to do with PayPal

[Monkey Steve]

12 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

They probably weren't even trying to launder money. The scam is that they appear to have paid money onto your account, but the payment is not confirmed. It shows on your account, but funds have not actually been received. You then send the £9,400 off and a week later, the "payment" disappears from your account, leaving you out of pocket.

entirely possible

[Monkey Steve]

15 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I think they are safeguards in place to stop this happening, they would need access to your bank account, something Name, account number and sort code doesn't give them. 

they would need access to my account for a standing order, but not to set up a Direct Debit - those are set up by the recipient, not the payee

The safeguards in place only protect me against that after it has happened and I can get my money back

[Paul S]

I've had a bank account since I was 17.  So that is nearly 45 years.  For the first 42 or more of those years I paid for stuff - like the rest of the world - by writing cheques, which have my name, sort code and bank account details quite clearly written on them.  No one has cleared me out of money or set up hooky DDs.  I think you must be mistaken.

[Monkey Steve]

28 minutes ago, Paul S said:

I've had a bank account since I was 17.  So that is nearly 45 years.  For the first 42 or more of those years I paid for stuff - like the rest of the world - by writing cheques, which have my name, sort code and bank account details quite clearly written on them.  No one has cleared me out of money or set up hooky DDs.  I think you must be mistaken.

The fact it hasn’t happened isn’t proof that it can’t happen

[Monkey Steve]

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2008/jan/07/personalfinancenews.scamsandfraud

it’s exactly what happened here

[PaulWarning]

13 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/2008/jan/07/personalfinancenews.scamsandfraud

it’s exactly what happened here

point taken, but this was obviously a stunt to make Clarkson look stupid, there was no chance he'd lose the money, there's no point in a fraudster using this method because they couldn't keep the money, but yes, it is possible to set up a direct debit without the account holders permission.

It is easy to get direct debit payments back, I've done it when an energy company I'd left kept taking payments

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Monkey Steve said:

Possibly worth adding that the first time I ever sold a guitar on eBay, I got contacted by someone who was very clearly trying to launder money - the guitar sold for about £600, and could I do him a favour so that he pays £10,000 into my bank account and then I forward the change to a different bank account as it's easier than him transferring the money himself.  Even said that he wasn't that fussed about getting the guitar as he was in Africa and my ad said UK buyers only and if I wanted a couple of hundred extra to cover my additional costs that was OK

Ah no, see that is a known scam, nothing to do with the bank.

You get a notification saying you had £10,000, you pay out the 9,400 and then it turns out the 10,000 never existed in the first place.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Woodinblack

[Monkey Steve]

2 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

point taken, but this was obviously a stunt to make Clarkson look stupid, there was no chance he'd lose the money, there's no point in a fraudster using this method because they couldn't keep the money, but yes, it is possible to set up a direct debit without the account holders permission.

It is easy to get direct debit payments back, I've done it when an energy company I'd left kept taking payments

But it’s not about clearing out your bank account in one go, it’s about taking a few quid each month from as many people don’t check their bank account and won’t notice

its also a pretty basic phishing move, to ask for any personal info that isn’t required , no matter how little risk there seems to be in releasing it

[Monkey Steve]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Ah no, see that is a known scam, nothing to do with the bank.

You get a notification saying you had £10,000, you pay out the 9,400 and then it turns out the 10,000 never existed in the first place.

Ah, a variation on the Nigerian prince..:

[Paul S]

I live on the edge, me.  I write cheques.  I cross the road, too, sometimes.  I just don't care. 

[Monkey Steve]

I think of it like this

Ebay has given away your name and address, PayPal confirms your e-mail address, and now a shady sounding character wants your bank details.  It then becomes pretty easy to track you down on Facebook, which with a little bit of digging confirms your date of birth, and look you were playing "what's your pornstar name" which gives the answer to two of the most common security questions, and then LinkedIn confirms where you work.

That's plenty of information for somebody to start making credit and store card applications in your name...

[PaulWarning]

45 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said:

I think of it like this

Ebay has given away your name and address, PayPal confirms your e-mail address, and now a shady sounding character wants your bank details.  It then becomes pretty easy to track you down on Facebook, which with a little bit of digging confirms your date of birth, and look you were playing "what's your pornstar name" which gives the answer to two of the most common security questions, and then LinkedIn confirms where you work.

That's plenty of information for somebody to start making credit and store card applications in your name...

like one or to of us have said it's fairly easy to get your bank details as well, if you're concerned about fraud maybe cash is king for you, me? I'd rather get paid straight into my bank account than paypal, no fees and no chance of being conned on paypal who nearly always side with the buyer, or so I'm told.

[Grangur]

18 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

They probably weren't even trying to launder money. The scam is that they appear to have paid money onto your account, but the payment is not confirmed. It shows on your account, but funds have not actually been received. You then send the £9,400 off and a week later, the "payment" disappears from your account, leaving you out of pocket.

 

18 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

no

he wanted my bank account details so that he could transfer the money - nothing to do with PayPal

Some time back I owned a business and we were selling stuff online. Someone paid by cheque. We sent out the goods after the money was in the account.

Months later the money disappeared from the bank account.... "WTF!!!!"  Contacted the bank..  The bank informed us that the cheque bounced.  

When you give the bank details you assume they pay by BACS, but they could also do it by paying a cheque into a branch. The bank processes the amount and puts it into your account. You're happy and pass the goods on. The bank has up to 6 months to bounce the cheque if the funds don't arrive. He's long gone. He may even have collected the goods and you may have no more to go on than an email address.

Also, @Monkey Steve on your transaction; the buyer set up a Paypal account, said he'd paid. Then came and paid cash, but he was able to stop the Paypal payment?!?! 

You dodged a bullet there. If he was able to stop the payment he would have been able to do that after you'd parted with the goods.

I don't like Paypal due to the claiming back after goods "didn't arrive". But if you deliver to a mate - this could be a drop-off shop only. They might have no records of who the buyer is. Selling is a nightmare.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Grangur

[Monkey Steve]

13 minutes ago, Grangur said:

Also, @Monkey Steve on your transaction; the buyer set up a Paypal account, said he'd paid. Then came and paid cash, but he was able to stop the Paypal payment?!?! 

You dodged a bullet there. If he was able to stop the payment he would have been able to do that after you'd parted with the goods.

I don't like Paypal due to the claiming back after goods "didn't arrive". But if you deliver to a mate - this could be a drop-off shop only. They might have no records of who the buyer is. Selling is a nightmare.

Exactly - nothing about it smelled right, and there was a lot of pressure to give him the bass as soon as possible and not to pay by the methods I had specified.  Apparently being able to reverse the PayPal payment didn't help his cause (and I never received any confirmation that it had been sent and was awaiting clearance) and there was also talk about getting the PayPal payment sent from a friend's account in Greece.

Maybe he was just inexperienced, but I don't regret telling him cash only

[Monkey Steve]

perhaps also worth adding that all of the hassle was what made him stand out from all the other buyers that I've sold instruments to.  Everybody else has been keen to meet up and hand over the cash, or make the payment immediately so that it can be couriered to the address that is registered to them on PayPal (which would give me all the protection I need)

Maybe he was genuine and not trying to get the bass for free, but I don't regret insisting on cash for a second

[mcnach]

3 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

I think of it like this

Ebay has given away your name and address, PayPal confirms your e-mail address, and now a shady sounding character wants your bank details.  It then becomes pretty easy to track you down on Facebook, which with a little bit of digging confirms your date of birth, and look you were playing "what's your pornstar name" which gives the answer to two of the most common security questions, and then LinkedIn confirms where you work.

That's plenty of information for somebody to start making credit and store card applications in your name...

 

Yet, it's not something that happens commonly. There is a reason for that,

[mcnach]

2 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

perhaps also worth adding that all of the hassle was what made him stand out from all the other buyers that I've sold instruments to.  Everybody else has been keen to meet up and hand over the cash, or make the payment immediately so that it can be couriered to the address that is registered to them on PayPal (which would give me all the protection I need)

Maybe he was genuine and not trying to get the bass for free, but I don't regret insisting on cash for a second

 

I agree entirely.

In the end, whether it's easy or not to get scammed, you need to follow your instincts. You don't *need* to sell to a specific person, so if anything at all gives you a bad feeling... you don't need to explain it to them or anybody else. The way I see it, if you're the seller then you say how you want things to happen. There may be negotiations, but you don't have to do anything you are not comfortable with. 

I've passed on opportunities to sell, not because I was too worried about the money or safety, but because I smelled hassle, and life's too short to waste time like that.

[Grangur]

5 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

I think of it like this

Ebay has given away your name and address, PayPal confirms your e-mail address, and now a shady sounding character wants your bank details.  It then becomes pretty easy to track you down on Facebook, which with a little bit of digging confirms your date of birth, and look you were playing "what's your pornstar name" which gives the answer to two of the most common security questions, and then LinkedIn confirms where you work.

That's plenty of information for somebody to start making credit and store card applications in your name...

On a matter of internet security and passwords: Don't forget that in many situations, your DoB, Mother's maiden name, memorable place etc, etc Don't have to be true.

OK for credit checking the bank may need your true info, but too many web sites ask for this same info for registering with them.  So, just look at it as another password.

[EliasMooseblaster]

29 minutes ago, Grangur said:

On a matter of internet security and passwords: Don't forget that in many situations, your DoB, Mother's maiden name, memorable place etc, etc Don't have to be true.

But what if Mooseblaster really was my mother's maiden name?

Edited May 30, 2019 by EliasMooseblaster

[uk_lefty]

There are other types of time wasters though. Three years maybe back I drove half an hour to sit in a car park of a service station to wait for someone to bring me a Fender Rumble amp. He never showed, never answered his phone. After an hour I went home. 

All he needed to do was text me to say yes sold it elsewhere, couldn't be bothered driving out to meet me, didn't like the cut of my gib, anything. Just anything to not waste my time. 

[casapete]

4 hours ago, uk_lefty said:

There are other types of time wasters though. Three years maybe back I drove half an hour to sit in a car park of a service station to wait for someone to bring me a Fender Rumble amp. He never showed, never answered his phone. After an hour I went home. 

All he needed to do was text me to say yes sold it elsewhere, couldn't be bothered driving out to meet me, didn't like the cut of my gib, anything. Just anything to not waste my time. 

I had a similar experience - drove 30 miles to meet a guy buying some passive PA cabs from me I had on ebay. Never showed, or answered my tests / calls. After wasting 2 hours of my time + fuel, I went home. After calming down a day later I left him negative feedback on ebay,  pointing out what had happened. After which he texted me, very abusive and said my listing had stated they were active cabs! When I sent him the listing saying otherwise he went quiet again. Unbelievable.

Have to say though that this was a one off - please to report most if not all of my other dealings via here, Ebay and Gumtree etc have been just fine. I always meet up face to face for a cash deal whether buying or selling, not being into Paypal scammers etc.

[NikNik]

On 22/05/2019 at 13:32, MoJo said:

I had this exact thing happen to me recently and received an 'Is this available' message from someone I knew. I replied with a 'Hi, yes it is.' To which he replied, 'Sorry mate, I didn't realise that I'd clicked on it'. I've had lots of 'Is this available' messages in the past, only to never hear from them again when I reply. I can only assume that a lot of them have clicked on it unintentionally too.

That wouldn't be on Gumtree by any chance? That exact phrase is almost unique to Gumtree responses I get. When I respond 'Yes, still here!' I hear nothing back say 70% of the time. I often wonder if it's a bot response to keep your ad active. 

Wonder when Gumtree will start charging on sales....

[steve-bbb]

works the other way too - i recently contacted somebody selling a rather nice bass and was practically trying to throw my money at him but he couldnt even be arsed to answer messages