Finished Pics! Psilos Phoenix Dreadnought Acoustic

[honza992]

Nice progress Andy, looks great.

Quick question about the ebano as I've just ordered some for my build. Do you think you could bend it round the standard lower horn of a Les Paul, or is it too small a radius? If so I may try thicknessing two pieces down to 1mm each and gluing them both on at the same time.

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, BassTool said:

Great skill Andy, you make that look a doddle 😲 and I see you are another builder keeping a smile on the face of @SpondonBassed

🤣

[Andyjr1515]

2 hours ago, honza992 said:

Nice progress Andy, looks great.

Quick question about the ebano as I've just ordered some for my build. Do you think you could bend it round the standard lower horn of a Les Paul, or is it too small a radius? If so I may try thicknessing two pieces down to 1mm each and gluing them both on at the same time.

Hi!

I'm not sure...but it did bend very easily. 

Tell you what - I've got a Les Paul.  If I get a moment tomorrow, I'll try it to see if I can get that lower horn shape

[Christine]

15 hours ago, honza992 said:

Nice progress Andy, looks great.

Quick question about the ebano as I've just ordered some for my build. Do you think you could bend it round the standard lower horn of a Les Paul, or is it too small a radius? If so I may try thicknessing two pieces down to 1mm each and gluing them both on at the same time.

I don't know either but at 1mm you have a good chance, heat and support on the outside will stop it breaking, maybe you have some 2mm plastic banding or something similar you could use? Just bend that around the outside as you go and I think you will get away with it

[Andyjr1515]

22 hours ago, honza992 said:

Nice progress Andy, looks great.

Quick question about the ebano as I've just ordered some for my build. Do you think you could bend it round the standard lower horn of a Les Paul, or is it too small a radius? If so I may try thicknessing two pieces down to 1mm each and gluing them both on at the same time.

Close - but probably no cigar, @honza992 

Part of my problem was actually that my bending iron doesn't have a radius small enough.  As such, I ended up heating and squeezing...and, of course the grain eventually objected:

 

Next, I tried bending it over a soldering iron.  Again, tricky and - although it was heading for a VERY tight radius, it eventually split out:

 

In actual fact, you'd get away with this with an application of CA or black epoxy and then sanding.

The above one is actually quite a bit tighter than a LP horn so I tried easing it over a wider area - it almost got it, but still started to part grain.  It's the top right in this photo:

 

I think that if you had a bending iron the right radius, you might just about do it - but there's no guarantee.  Also, ironing around a carved former, still done wet and dousing regularly, might support the grain better and enough, but again it's just a supposition...

In all cases, by the way, my bending iron was set on hot and I gave each area I was bending a healthy dousing with my water spray before and during the attempts.

 

In comparison to the above, doing the two binding strips for the back of the acoustic was a doddle 

 

[Andyjr1515]

16 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Also, ironing around a carved former, still done wet and dousing regularly, might support the grain better and enough, but again it's just a supposition...

No - just tried that too.  Same result.

I guess that Rocklite is made up of shorter fibres and therefore at a certain radius they just pop out.

The only standard thickness wood binding I've been able to get round corners that kind of tightness was rosewood for this rebody of a Peavey EVH.  And this was after trying a number of other woods including maple (I was surprised that maple didn't do the trick):

 

Your thought of laminating thinner pieces might work...

 

 

 

[honza992]

Wow, thanks Andy, that's some great work you've done on my behalf.  I really really appreciate it!

Just to double check, was that 2mm thickness as it comes from Rocklite?  If so, I may try taking it down to 1.5mm and bending that in one go, along with a maple veneer, maybe with a backing strip of some kind, as @Christine suggests....and if that doesn't work then taking it down to 1mm and trying to glue two strips and the maple veneer at the same time.  I may run out of hands, but it's worth a go, I really don't like black plastic veneer.  I'll report back!

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by honza992

[honza992]

Oh and since I'm here and finishing is endlessly on my mind, how did you finish the Peavey above?  Looks great. 

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, honza992 said:

Wow, thanks Andy, that's some great work you've done on my behalf.  I really really appreciate it!

Just to double check, was that 2mm thickness as it comes from Rocklite?  If so, I may try taking it down to 1.5mm and bending that in one go, along with a maple veneer, maybe with a backing strip of some kind, as @Christine suggests....and if that doesn't work then taking it down to 1mm and trying to glue two strips and the maple veneer at the same time.  I may run out of hands, but it's worth a go, I really don't like black plastic veneer.  I'll report back!

 

Hi, John

It is as received...2mm

Ref the Peavey - it's just tru-oil slurry and buffed.  Tru-oil was just made for walnut, I reckon.... 

[Andyjr1515]

I'm seeing Matt on Tuesday to give him a 'first fitting' of the neck profile and to firm up the amplification. 

Then I will be able to put the back on

Clearly, until that's on, I can't do the bottom binding and finish off the tailstock, so the walnut and two vertical binding strips here are loose. but gives a decent idea of where I'm heading.  The walnut centre-piece matches the rosette and headstock plate:

 

The walnut isn't actually bookmatched - that's a pencil line you can see in the photo - but I was able to find some very symmetrical figuring in the sheet offcut.

 

[SpondonBassed]

18 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

I'm seeing Matt on Tuesday to give him a 'first fitting' of the neck profile and to firm up the amplification. 

Then I will be able to put the back on

Clearly, until that's on, I can't do the bottom binding and finish off the tailstock, so the walnut and two vertical binding strips here are loose. but gives a decent idea of where I'm heading.  The walnut centre-piece matches the rosette and headstock plate:

 

The walnut isn't actually bookmatched - that's a pencil line you can see in the photo - but I was able to find some very symmetrical figuring in the sheet offcut.

 

I bet you used to draw a pencil line down the backs of your legs during the great nylon stocking shortage of WWII and all.

[Andyjr1515]

4 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

I bet you used to draw a pencil line down the backs of your legs during the great nylon stocking shortage of WWII and all.

Yup - and going to have to again after Brexit!

[Christine]

5 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Yup - and going to have to again after Brexit!

Actually no, the best seamed stockings are made in the UK, could have problems with knicker elastic though

[SpondonBassed]

3 minutes ago, Christine said:

Actually no, the best seamed stockings are made in the UK, could have problems with knicker elastic though

Get Valerie Singleton to raid her drawers. 

[Andyjr1515]

Bit of final sanding to do, but the neck is pretty much done:

This shot is particularly for the member who "does like a nice volute".  I hope it meets his approval

 

[SpondonBassed]

1 minute ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Bit of final sanding to do, but the neck is pretty much done:

This shot is particularly for the member who "does like a nice volute".  I hope it meets his approval

 

I can almost feel it from here.  You've made a middle-aged man very happy.

[honza992]

Andy, silly question, but where is the peak of the volute level with? The nut?

[Andyjr1515]

29 minutes ago, honza992 said:

Andy, silly question, but where is the peak of the volute level with? The nut?

Not at all a silly question.  I put the peak itself a touch behind the nut (ie to the headstock side).  The reason is so that a player does not have the peak in the way of their supporting thumb when playing chords at the nut end.  But the neck is aleady rising towards the peak at the apex of the headstock angle (ie, under the nut) and therefore I still get the extra thickness and associated strength increase at that weak spot.

I'm sure other builders have other strategies...

[Andyjr1515]

It's an acoustic - so it needs yet another jig made

Fitting the bridge.  Always an area needing accuracy - but particularly with an acoustic where, basically, once it's on it's on.  Intonation adjustment is limited to the 1mm difference you can make filing the bone saddle angled towards the back or towards the front.  

So it has to be right.

I use the Stewmac fret calculator app to give me the nut to saddle distances for top E and bottom E, but a steel rule isn't really accurate enough to measure the distances AND get the sideways positioning right.


So last night, while watching the box, I made this from some maple binding strip:



This is eminently possible to get the measurements right with a long steel rule.  Then, the bottom cross-member hooks over the nut end of the fretboard and the top cross member fits into the bridge saddle-slot:



I line the jig up to give an even distance between the fretboard edges bass and treble...


...and the bridge should now be in exactly the right position.  Fingers crossed

[TheGreek]

Ingenious....so for the next build you'll be able to use the immortal words.."here's one that I prepared earlier.."

[Maude]

I'm usually quietly but keenly watching these threads. I don't normally like to air my inquisitive mind for fear of sounding like I'm criticising, which I wouldn't do. 

But, I totally understand the jig you've made which puts the saddle in the correct place but that now puts the bridge out of alignment by the looks of it. I know the saddle position is more important than the bridge alignment but that would play havoc with me. Are all precut bridges supplied with the saddle slot cut to a generic angle or are there angles you can choose from?

[Andyjr1515]

9 minutes ago, Maude said:

I'm usually quietly but keenly watching these threads. I don't normally like to air my inquisitive mind for fear of sounding like I'm criticising, which I wouldn't do. 

But, I totally understand the jig you've made which puts the saddle in the correct place but that now puts the bridge out of alignment by the looks of it. I know the saddle position is more important than the bridge alignment but that would play havoc with me. Are all precut bridges supplied with the saddle slot cut to a generic angle or are there angles you can choose from?

I think they tend to be a bit random.  This is a good bridge from a good supplier and is supposed to be to a Martin spec but I agree, it is more off line than I think I would normally expect. 

It's something that doesn't bother me - jazz bridges and many other floating bridges are usually skewed so it's something I don't generally notice.

I will be checking with Matt, who I'm making this for.  If it bothers him, I'll get an unslotted bridge.  Mind you, they can be a pig to slot accurately which can give you the worst of all worlds...

[Maude]

I can imagine slotting an unslotted bridge with the correct angle to get the bridge square and the intonation spot on would be a pig of a job. 

[Maude]

Now I have raised my head I'll take this opportunity to say how much I enjoy all of your builds Andy. I like your ingenuity and approach to your builds and enjoy learning from them, keep up the good work 👍

[Andyjr1515]

7 hours ago, Maude said:

I can imagine slotting an unslotted bridge with the correct angle to get the bridge square and the intonation spot on would be a pig of a job. 

It's an option and most builders would have no problem doing this - but I am personally rubbish at lining up such things 

Some builders actually rig up a false bridge and string up, then use a bone sliver to intonate on the strung up guitar to set where the saddle should be (a bit like a jazz guitarist would intonate with a floating bridge).  But again, for me there are more possibilities to introduce errors than emininate them

The secondary reason for the rig is that for Matt, the distance of the two E strings from the fretboard edges is critical - so the lining up of the string runs is as important that the position of the bridge.

But...that lack of squareness might bug him.  If so, there are a number of things I will be looking at:

- first is double check that I got my jig right!

- look at simply squaring up the external faces of the present bridge

- get an unslotted bridge, slot it, check it's OK and then use the jig as originally planned

-  cut a perfect slot in a blank of wood, then cut the bridge from around it

Of the above, squaring up the external faces is probably the most straightforward.

All of this sort of thing is why this is such a great hobby.  I've said before that building an acoustic is "a series of compromises held together by hope"

Watch this space - more than enough opportunities for me to c**k it up yet!