Treasures of the future. ( basses of course)

[KingPrawn]

Evening everyone.

I have recently managed to get hold of a Mayones B4. I owned one years ago and should never have let it go!

I know its all relative, but is there a bass you own now that whilst, not a mass produced brand name, you feel will be the high-cost sort after basses of the future? let's say in 2060? . 

 

[DoubleOhStephan]

Ooo I'll play!! 😁

I reckon my Spector NS2000/4 falls into that bracket. I bought it cheap about 6-7 years ago (£220) and they're now worth nearer £400-450ish. 

Given they're pretty rare and hugely underrated, I reckon the only way is up.

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm not sure anything other than the typical Fender stuff will go up in value much, I certainly wouldn't invest in any modern basses with that in mind. 

[DoubleOhStephan]

3 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

I'm not sure anything other than the typical Fender stuff will go up in value much, I certainly wouldn't invest in any modern basses with that in mind. 

Boooo!!! 

[ped]

With the retirement of Michael Pedulla, the shift in production of Ken Smith basses and the transition to the use of new apprentices by Vinnie Fodera etc I think we’ll see basses ‘made by the original’ becoming sought after, regardless of whether the instruments are any different. It’s happened before; isn’t there a ‘Dan Smith’ era fender from the 80s or something that for some reason is worth more? 

A lot of the innovators from the 70s/80s are retiring or dying and I don’t know if we’ll ever have that same era of ‘new’ ideas like that, on the same scale (although I’m all for innovation, collectors don’t think like that). So the basses will be worth more and newer ones take inspiration from them. 

So for a bass to be considered valuable in the future I’d say it would have to be made ‘in house’ by one of the original ‘masters’. Do you think a Sadowsky made by someone after Roger retires will be worth as much as one he made? Folks on TB are already saying that Smith basses from the ‘Ken era’ will be sought after, even though production has always been outsourced to some extent. 

Any plastic components will be valuable when we run out of oil

[TheGreek]

Many of you won't have even heard of these but I'm certain that my Veillette Citron is an absolute classic waiting to be recognised. Used by Bjorn from Abba and Tina Weymouth amongst others, it is reported that only about 260 basses were built by the two owners.

From the net: 

Starting in 1976, luthiers Joe Veillette and Harvey Citron built and sold VC basses and guitars which were made of the finest woods and wired with revolutionary electronics (staged pickups and truly floating pickups) entirely handbuilt (except for tuners and knobs!) and beautifully crafted and balanced instruments. Each one is unique and today they are quite rare as total production of all basses and guitars was 530 instruments with somewhat over half, perhaps as many as 300 being basses. Their creations were played by Tina Waymouth (Talking Heads), Kasim Sultan (David Bowie), John Sebastian, The guitarist from the Good Rats and many other notables. By 1983, due to the cost of production and difficulty tooling up to meet demand, VC went out of business. Today both Harvey and Joe build amazing, custom made instruments and are located in Woodstock NY.

 

As a bassist and collector of vintage basses, I have owned over 20 VCs - again, each is unique, but the one commonality they share is they are phenomenal players - thick ebony fretboards that have a unique and rich sound, never go out of tune, and the pickups- oh, the pickups... If you are not familiar with VCs or have never played one, do some research. They are much sought after and quite rare.

 

http://www.veilletteguitars.com/press_citron.shtml

[Cosmo Valdemar]

1 hour ago, ped said:

With the retirement of Michael Pedulla, the shift in production of Ken Smith basses and the transition to the use of new apprentices by Vinnie Fodera etc I think we’ll see basses ‘made by the original’ becoming sought after, regardless of whether the instruments are any different. It’s happened before; isn’t there a ‘Dan Smith’ era fender from the 80s or something that for some reason is worth more? 

A lot of the innovators from the 70s/80s are retiring or dying and I don’t know if we’ll ever have that same era of ‘new’ ideas like that, on the same scale (although I’m all for innovation, collectors don’t think like that). So the basses will be worth more and newer ones take inspiration from them. 

So for a bass to be considered valuable in the future I’d say it would have to be made ‘in house’ by one of the original ‘masters’. Do you think a Sadowsky made by someone after Roger retires will be worth as much as one he made? Folks on TB are already saying that Smith basses from the ‘Ken era’ will be sought after, even though production has always been outsourced to some extent. 

Any plastic components will be valuable when we run out of oil

I'm quietly terrified of the day the Wickershams call it a day at Alembic. I read an interview with Ron a few years ago that suggested it would be a real possibilty when retirement comes.

Admittedly the likelihood of me having the means to order a custom Alembic is very low, but it would be very sad if Alembic shut up shop.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Cosmo Valdemar

[fiatcoupe432]

In my opinion Zon will be a collectible item. One man building, takes him 2/3years to complete a job and never replies to email phone calls messages

Already hard to get hand on

 

[Doctor J]

Anything where you can say "pre-" something. It doesn't matter whether it's better or worse, people seem to want to pay more for "pre" rather than "post". Add over 30 years to the mix and you can start thinking of buying that speedboat.

[TheGreek]

I'd like to think that ACGs will become collectable in the future - mainly because bassists will recognise what versatile and beautifully made instruments they are.

It will probably mean Alan having to die (the supply & demand factor) and though I'm not advocating bumping him off, I think the sooner we recognise his brilliance the better.

Here's mine:

 

[Doctor J]

12 minutes ago, TheGreek said:

I'd like to think that ACGs will become collectable in the future - mainly because bassists will recognise what versatile and beautifully made instruments they are.

It will probably mean Alan having to die (the supply & demand factor) and though I'm not advocating bumping him off, I think the sooner we recognise his brilliance the better.

Pre-Greek ACGs

[stewblack]

Bruce Thomas Profile bass. I'll not sell mine until 2060.

[uk_lefty]

Left handed Kramer Striker five string fretless basses from the "Musicyo" era. In 2060 some hobbyist "information archaeologist" interested also in the history of basses shall dust off a physical interface computer and smile as they rifle through the now defunct Google by actually having to touch a primitive computer in order to give it commands. They will find the ramblings of an obscure amateur bassist taking every opportunity to say "it was cheap but my goodness it's good" and then will start a quest to find any that haven't been sent to the woodchipper to find out  if and/ or why it was good. Unique woods and electronics? Or just because it was an eighteenth birthday present for someone who never achieved much outside of playing covers in the same Hertfordshire towns...

 

[akabane]

As it has been said already:

-Pre-2019 Pedulla (he retired, especially I reckon the Hexabuzzes)

-Pre-2019 Ken Smith (since he now shifted production to Brubaker)

-Marleaux basses, once Gerard Marleaux will retire. Especially that damn gorgeous Marleaux Contra Bass.

-Edit: Obviously Alembic. They were among the first, so I suppose they might be close to calling it a day?  

 

Unf. I just bought my first Ken Smith Black Tiger 6er a few weeks ago (2004 model, a beauty!) and now I'm already lusting for a 6-string Marleaux Contra and a 6-string Ken Smith White Tiger fretless...ah also yes! Yes! A 6 strings Black Tiger Elite.

Are you still supposed to play the lottery in order to win?  

Edited May 20, 2019 by akabane

[Bolo]

Pre-gibson Tobias, and perhaps MTD from Michael's hand, though Daniel's work is imo indistinguishable. Very very nice people as a bonus.

The EBMM anniversary stingrays.

[thodrik]

15 hours ago, ped said:

With the retirement of Michael Pedulla, the shift in production of Ken Smith basses and the transition to the use of new apprentices by Vinnie Fodera etc I think we’ll see basses ‘made by the original’ becoming sought after, regardless of whether the instruments are any different. It’s happened before; isn’t there a ‘Dan Smith’ era fender from the 80s or something that for some reason is worth more? 

A lot of the innovators from the 70s/80s are retiring or dying and I don’t know if we’ll ever have that same era of ‘new’ ideas like that, on the same scale (although I’m all for innovation, collectors don’t think like that). So the basses will be worth more and newer ones take inspiration from them. 

So for a bass to be considered valuable in the future I’d say it would have to be made ‘in house’ by one of the original ‘masters’. Do you think a Sadowsky made by someone after Roger retires will be worth as much as one he made? Folks on TB are already saying that Smith basses from the ‘Ken era’ will be sought after, even though production has always been outsourced to some extent. 

Any plastic components will be valuable when we run out of oil

Great point. 

As a lucky owner of a Sadowsky NYC I am intrigued as to whether a 'Roger Sadowsky era' Sadowsky will  shoot up in value immediately after he retires. s. I also think that Roger will make sure that production quality following his retirement will be so high that there will not really be a massive demand for 'vintage Sadowskys' vs New Sadowskys. In 50 years though, possibly, but by then my then 100 year old Precision will probably still be worth more...

 

[Bolo]

Oh, original B.C. Rich are also appreciating, Bernie Rico and Neil Moser shaped a decade and then some!

[itu]

Vigier, Kubicki, Overwater, tune, Parker, Peavey, Status, De Gier, Schack...

Every builder today is interesting after +50 years. Or if some player "finds" certain brand, the prices will rise. Remember Nirvana and the sky-high prices of those lousy Fenders? But, this is hard to digest: the instrument is not the one that produces that sound. It is the player. Sorry, secret revealed.

If I wanted to sound like Geddy Lee, I should learn his playing style. The work in finding a similar instrument just does not help, but only consumes time - while I should play and learn.

[LukeFRC]

Gus - I think the further from Leo fender we get the more we will appreciate the designs. Mind you apart from seeing a photo of @BigRedX with one, and prince I’ve never seen one in real life. 

 

 

[Teebs]

All good suggestions, worthy of merit.

However, ahem, The Sue Ryder Bass.

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Teebs

[BigRedX]

13 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

Gus - I think the further from Leo fender we get the more we will appreciate the designs. Mind you apart from seeing a photo of @BigRedX with one, and prince I’ve never seen one in real life. 

Maybe...

Unfortunately Gus will need at least one high profile player who is going to live longer than a single performance with the instrument to get their name properly known.

Edited May 21, 2019 by BigRedX

[Stub Mandrel]

Fender Performer ... eventually!

 

[ianrendall]

Regarding Roger Sadowsky retiring. 

I read somewhere that he has no plans to ever retire and he’d prefer to just keep working and die at his workbench!

I wouldn’t mind putting money on that Roger is mentoring Lisa to take over.

[cetera]

On 19/05/2019 at 19:01, ped said:

With the retirement of Michael Pedulla, the shift in production of Ken Smith basses and the transition to the use of new apprentices by Vinnie Fodera etc I think we’ll see basses ‘made by the original’ becoming sought after, regardless of whether the instruments are any different. It’s happened before; isn’t there a ‘Dan Smith’ era fender from the 80s or something that for some reason is worth more? 

A lot of the innovators from the 70s/80s are retiring or dying and I don’t know if we’ll ever have that same era of ‘new’ ideas like that, on the same scale (although I’m all for innovation, collectors don’t think like that). So the basses will be worth more and newer ones take inspiration from them. 

So for a bass to be considered valuable in the future I’d say it would have to be made ‘in house’ by one of the original ‘masters’. Do you think a Sadowsky made by someone after Roger retires will be worth as much as one he made? Folks on TB are already saying that Smith basses from the ‘Ken era’ will be sought after, even though production has always been outsourced to some extent. 

Any plastic components will be valuable when we run out of oil

Yep, pre-Korg Spectors.... in particular 'custom order' Euro models and US made/signed by Stuart Spector models.

Edited June 12, 2019 by cetera

[Nicko]

Normally I'd expect anything from a small volume manufacturer to be seen as a potential future classic, but to be honest I have an old Patrick Eggle 6 string guitar - one of the shorter production run ranges in an unusual configuration which is a great player and its worth approximately nowt.

I suspect a good big name brand limited production example using materials which are becoming scarce/controlled (ie a mahogany body and rosewood board rather than ash and  maple) might outperform a small bespoke manufacturer product.