Small but mighty heads

[chris_b]

18 hours ago, Williams4S said:

Something's wrong with my head. But anyway, I need a new bass amp.

I went from a TC RH750 to an Aguilar TH500. I loved it so much I bought a 2nd as a backup.

A couple of years later, one of the TH500's was replaced by an AG700 which is now my main gigging amp.

ATM I'm very happy with Aguilar, but for the future I'm watching out for Berg Forte HP and Mesa Subway WD-800 reviews.

[ryancowell25]

Quilter bass block hands down - I've not found anything else that size that produces that much volume

[Al Krow]

16 hours ago, Mudpup said:

You don't send the tone shaping to the FOH sound usually. Most sound engineers prefer a clean signal for their ease of use in my experience.

You can come straight out of the Quilters XLR into the desk but just have to be aware that if you change your stage volume it'll affect the signal to the desk. But you probably wouldn't be messing with that after soundcheck anyway......

16 hours ago, jrixn1 said:

Fair enough -  some do and some don't. I don't know what Williams4S does.

That would be post-EQ though... 😉

The discussion around what the FOH is getting got me thinking and it seems to me there are typically 3 levels of flexibility:

1) Just post EQ DI out => any changes to your stage volume will also impact the FOH volume e.g. Quilter BB800

2) Pre EQ DI out option => FOH gets whatever the amp receives. Changing the amp vol or EQ won't impact the FOH signal - standard feature on most amps

At first blush could be considered limiting because any effects (drive, compression) or EQ to get to your "sound" done on the amp won't get fed through to the FOH. But actually if you do your tone shaping and drive / compression / fx on your bass preamp and pedalboard then you can get a fair chunk of your "sound" to the FOH whilst having stage volume flexibility.

3) Amp has a a separate DI volume control e.g. Mesa M6

Bingo! You get complete flexibility to go post EQ assuming your sound guy is cool with this - the ones I've dealt with at venues generally would be. You then get to benefit from the amp's flavouring also. In the case of the M6, that's going to be a BIG plus (which @bassfan can hopefully confirm as he's ahead of me in gigging his M6) as, based on my albeit limited experience, it's got the best tone of any amp head I've heard.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Al Krow

[bassfan]

15 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

In the case of the M6 that's going to be a BIG plus (which @bassfan can hopefully confirm as he's ahead of me in gigging his M6) as, based on my albeit limited experience, it's got the best tone of any amp head I've heard

I will indeed confirm this, the more I gig the M6 the more I love it’s tone, power and flexibility. The separate DI volume  control is a bonus, I can make any changes I wish to my set up without effecting FOH. 😃👍🏻 

It’s not small though! 😂 

Edited May 23, 2019 by bassfan

[Al Krow]

Apologies for the thread sidetrack. Tbf a Mesa M6 at 25 lbs, whilst undoubtedly mighty, can in no way be considered small!

As you were, back to playing nicely with the little ones now then 😂

Speaking of which...

Substitute AG 700 for DG M900 in my case, but otherwise I'm in exactly the same boat as Chris:

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

ATM I'm very happy with Aguilar, but for the future I'm watching out for Berg Forte HP and Mesa Subway WD-800 reviews.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Al Krow

[SamPlaysBass]

I debated this this Post-EQ DI conundrum with a local sound guru who often finds himself behind the console for our gigs. He works for Midas and does some pretty extraordinary sound stuff day to day, and his advice to me was something along the lines of:

“Send me the cleanest signal you can. What you think sounds good on stage sounds sh!te out here.”

Followed this advice and it’s served me well. Ideally, I’d like to send the pre-EQ signal out and it not be affected by volume differences or anything. How come Quilter didn’t put a volume control (or to that effect) on their DI? Seems a bit strange as the rest of the amp seems monstrous. 

[Al Krow]

Tbf, very few amps seem to have a separate volume control for the DI. The Mesa M6 is an exception to the rule, but it's an exceptional class AB amp that is not really appropriate to compare with D class heads we are discussing here. 

The weird thing that Quilter have done is to not offer a pre EQ DI switch. I doubt it would have cost much to add, so definitely a bit of an oversight. 

[SamPlaysBass]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

The weird thing that Quilter have done is to not offer a pre EQ DI switch. I doubt it would have cost much to add, so definitely a bit of an oversight. 

My apologies, this is what I meant - worded much more elegantly than my attempt. Every amp I’ve owned has had a DI with a pre/post switch. Seems strange that Quilter didn’t put one on theirs.  

[Cuzzie]

Whether the DI is pre or post EQ has Its pluses and minuses depending on what you want, and a separate volume control is nice, but for me the real oversight is not having a volume switch on the DI, but just having the DI as a line level so the volume change on the amp has absolutely no change to the line signal.

If I am right the DG amp version 2 has this, as does the new Form Factor coming out - that one really is the simplest fix internally

[chris_b]

You don't need a volume on the DI. The desk has all the processing power required to do the job.

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

You don't need a volume on the DI. The desk has all the processing power required to do the job.

Indeed, and most amps don't have a DI volume for that very reason.

I would put in the "nice to have" category alongside parametric mids and hpf control on an amp. All features that provide additional appeal to me about the Mesa M6 and Mesa WD-800. Again, a lot of amps don't offer these extra features, but they are a nice touch if they are available.

And particularly where you don't have a sound engineer, on site monitoring the desk (as per @Jack's post earlier), it does allow you to vary the volume of the amp on stage whilst keeping the post EQ volume going through your PA unchanged.

But not being able to offer a clean pre EQ is defo a bigger issue.

Edited May 23, 2019 by Al Krow

[Mudpup]

4 hours ago, Williams4S said:

“Send me the cleanest signal you can. What you think sounds good on stage sounds sh!te out here.”

Followed this advice and it’s served me well. Ideally, I’d like to send the pre-EQ signal out and it not be affected by volume differences or anything. How come Quilter didn’t put a volume control (or to that effect) on their DI? Seems a bit strange as the rest of the amp seems monstrous. 

Its because its not actually a DI output - its a line level XLR out. Although its easily useable as a DI if you get your levels onstage first and then adjust the desk levels. 

[G-Dog]

How about the new Fender Rumble 800 HD?

 

[Soledad]

On 22/05/2019 at 22:31, Williams4S said:

If love to, but I don’t think I could part with a grand for a head. I’d love to try one though! 

sorry, didn't mean to sound casual about a grand, but I almost always find nice used gear and I'm sure I've seen the odd Subway around £600-ish? OK, not too frequent but they do come up.

[dave_bass5]

On 23/05/2019 at 11:10, la bam said:

Well, he'd be sacked after that gig! What use are they if they do that?!  levels need monitoring all the time. That's their job.

.

You can sack a venue supplied sound guy?  Agree though, they should be on the ball and listening out for things changing. 

Back on topic, I’d vote for either a GK MB800 or TCE BH800. The GK is more powerful and smaller than the BH800, but theBH800 has a great EQ section and of course the tone prints. Nice to be able to add a bit of compression if needed. 

I also agree with the OP about MB heads sounding boring, but i look on mine as a blank canvas that responds well to my pedals. 

[SamPlaysBass]

On 22/05/2019 at 23:58, machinehead said:

Anyway, can I suggest that you look at the EBS Reidmar 750.  It's also reasonably priced, loads of tone control including drive, LOUD, well built and reliable and a good built-in DI.  Just a thought as I regret ever parting with mine.  (I only sold mine because it was too wide for my Barefaced one10 cabs - sad or what?)

Reading back over this thread and I missed this at first glance - the Reidmar 750 seems particularly good value for money. Even more so, the Reidmar 502 is under £400! Any idea how ‘loud’ they are compared to their watt ratings?

Before the can of worms starts bubbling, I’m fully aware that loudness and watts are not necessarily related. What I’m trying to decipher is: are the Reidmars capable of producing a similar amount of power as other amplifiers (such as my RH450) or are companies playing marketing games? Will a Reidmar 502/500 be as loud as my RH450, and is the 750 as loud as you expect it to be? 

[TheGreek]

Surprised there were no advocates for the TecAmp Puma - available as 500w, 900w and 1000w - great phat tone palette.

Although not small, the Glockenklang heads may be just what your after tone wise.

[SamPlaysBass]

1 hour ago, TheGreek said:

Surprised there were no advocates for the TecAmp Puma - available as 500w, 900w and 1000w - great phat tone palette.

I’ve owned a TecAmp Puma 900 and it was incredible for the 2 weeks it worked. Shame that it kept dying or going into protect mode. I ended up with my money back but a bit gutted that it didn’t work. If they weren’t £700+ brand new, definite contender. I think I’m looking closer to £500 as an absolute maximum. 

[danbowskill]

The king of smaller heads ( imo of course 😉 )

 

[RichValentine]

23 hours ago, TheGreek said:

Surprised there were no advocates for the TecAmp Puma - available as 500w, 900w and 1000w - great phat tone palette.

Although not small, the Glockenklang heads may be just what your after tone wise.

I was going to recommend one of these. Just picked up a TecAmp Puma 500w from the bass gallery. Tested it against  a MB Little Mark/Aguilar TH500 in store. The MB sounded a little more sterile than the Puma/TH but the Puma just swung it although not much in it. Lovely sounding amp and pretty reasonable used! 

[tauzero]

On 11/06/2019 at 21:57, Williams4S said:

I’ve owned a TecAmp Puma 900 and it was incredible for the 2 weeks it worked. Shame that it kept dying or going into protect mode. I ended up with my money back but a bit gutted that it didn’t work. If they weren’t £700+ brand new, definite contender. I think I’m looking closer to £500 as an absolute maximum. 

Mine (bought second-hand here) has been working happily for the last 7 years. Shame you didn't get a replacement rather than a refund.

[Oopsdabassist]

On 11/06/2019 at 19:25, Williams4S said:

Reading back over this thread and I missed this at first glance - the Reidmar 750 seems particularly good value for money. Even more so, the Reidmar 502 is under £400! Any idea how ‘loud’ they are compared to their watt ratings?

Before the can of worms starts bubbling, I’m fully aware that loudness and watts are not necessarily related. What I’m trying to decipher is: are the Reidmars capable of producing a similar amount of power as other amplifiers (such as my RH450) or are companies playing marketing games? Will a Reidmar 502/500 be as loud as my RH450, and is the 750 as loud as you expect it to be? 

I have a Reidmar 250 which is just as loud as my Aggy TH500, I dunno how they do it really!

I believe the Reidmar 500 is just a rebadged 250 with no actual changes to the innards...there was a post on here about it a coupla years back.