Rock is finished - it has nothing more to say!

[Guest subaudio]

1 minute ago, Al Krow said:

Some dude who has got very proficient at self-publicity!

Yep 5 pages and counting, all for free

Great discussion though.

[project_c]

4 hours ago, subaudio said:

No new band of any genre will ever have the impact of 40/50 years ago.

The industry of the golden era is dead, it no longer exists.

In the old days bands made vast fortunes because they had a physical product (records) that they could sell.

Ever since the internet no band can make anything like they used to because recorded music is free now, spotify etc pay nothing to artists, a million plays will get an artist something like £250.

Until we can figure out how to get paid a fair price for recorded music the industry will continue to collapse.

Plus the joys of austerity means our young folk can't afford to see bands live, the youth of the past had much more disposable income than kids today.

This is definitely true, but there are still many artists - especially grime artists - getting relatively rich through music. The difference is they're not doing it solely through the established route of gigs and record sales, they're getting paid through social media, licensing, guest appearances and cameos etc. They're having to work harder and have a more consistent output for less cash than the old bands, which also explains why the music - especially grime - is made and recorded using the most basic equipment, usually by 2 people rather than a whole band in an expensive studio full of engineers followed by pressing plants / managers etc - and released for no cost in next to no time, but still attracting an audience of millions in a matter of days.

Basically to make money in the current environment, you have to have minimum personnel, simple equipment that gives you instant results, zero production cost, zero manufacturing costs and endless confidence, energy and enthusiasm. Genres like grime fit into that format perfectly. 

 

[Lozz196]

Rock may have nothing more to say but that hasn’t stopped people asking to hear it again. Look at Guns N Roses doing their Not in This Lifetime tour. And many eagerly awaiting the anticipated getting back together of Brian Johnson and AC/DC. Sure, nothing new but so what, if fans of great live music want to hear it, well that’s the important thing.

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Rock may have nothing more to say but that hasn’t stopped people asking to hear it again. Look at Guns N Roses doing their Not in This Lifetime tour. And many eagerly awaiting the anticipated getting back together of Brian Johnson and AC/DC. Sure, nothing new but so what, if fans of great live music want to hear it, well that’s the important thing.

Very true. But the "new" Guns N Roses capable of filling out stadia, seem pretty thin on the ground?

There comes a point when it's no longer great seeing some of the older guys parody themselves (Paul McCartney, Debbie Harry). It's a nostalgia fest with a finite shelf-life if the industry makes it difficult for new bands to break through.

And free music streaming can, paradoxically, be a massive barrier to entry for new talent. 

[Al Krow]

Music streaming or that youngsters of all generations have rebelled against their parents when they want to leave their mark? It's going to be totally uncool to know you're not a patch on rockers who are 30 to 40 years older than you.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[Mykesbass]

On 24/05/2019 at 19:58, DoubleOhStephan said:

Now you've mentioned Spotify, according to the Every Noise at Once website (which is an algorithmically-generated, readability-adjusted scatter-plot of the musical genre-space, based on data tracked and analyzed for 3,068 ((!!!)) genres by Spotify), "Rock" is the 5th most popular, with various subtypes appearing further on down in the list.

Given this list is generated by data from 100 Million Spotify users (so a pretty large sample size of music listeners), I reckon it gives a more accurate representation of Rocks popularity. 

As an aside, Grime comes in 203rd place with Drill in a 412th. 

Stick that in your pipe Bobby 😛

http://everynoise.com/everynoise1d.cgi?scope=all

Wow. Interesting site. But how many genres?! What the hell is Post Teen Pop? Going to have a good look at that site later. Thanks @DoubleOhStephan

[Reggaebass]

27 minutes ago, Mykesbass said:

Wow. Interesting site. But how many genres?! What the hell is Post Teen Pop? Going to have a good look at that site later. Thanks @DoubleOhStephan

When I first looked I didn’t realise it scrolled down, there’s over 3000 , and every one has samples , it’s so good , Argentine reggae is quite cool  😀

[DoubleOhStephan]

Just an FYI on that site, if you click on a genre, it'll take you a Spotify play list with representative music 👍🏻

[Cosmo Valdemar]

12 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

There comes a point when it's no longer great seeing some of the older guys parody themselves (Paul McCartney...

What's McCartney done wrong now? 😆

 

[operative451]

Thing is, skiffle and music hall are dead too. So what? 

I'm currently watching Billie Eilish at radio1's big weekend and ver kids are screaming and crying down the front just as much as ever. Music evolves, I  don't really understand why that upsets people so much...

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

What's McCartney done wrong now? 😆

I love the guy. The Beatles were the first band I was completely smitten by.

But he really can't sing (well) any more and I can't remember when he last produced a decent album that was worthy of his stature. 

[mikel]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I love the guy. The Beatles were the first band I was completely smitten by.

But he really can't sing (well) any more and I can't remember when he last produced a decent album that was worthy of his stature. 

The thing is he has never really stopped recording and touring, so he is not simply jumping on the "Reunion, lets get back together and make some money by playing our 30 year old back catalogue." AC/DC are the same, never stopped playing.

[Cato]

4 hours ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

I don’t normally find myself agreeing with Eddie Trunk, but I think there’s a bit of truth in this recent Tweet....

“Rock is certainly not dead. But, what seems to be dead are bands playing truly live. The real crisis in rock is the prevalence of “live” shows that are anything but. It’s sickening how many accept/look the other way, or have no clue.Thx to all bands keeping it REAL!”

It depends what he means by 'truly live'.

I agree to the point that I don't want to see a band who are basically just miming, but I have no problem with those who incorparate samples or additional backing tracks into their show.

I was a big fan of Cater USM in the 90s and before they expanded the duo to include other musicians about 70% of their live show was backing tracks and samples with only the guitars and vocals truly being live.

They still put on a hell of a show.

I suspect another one of my favourite live acts , Nine Inch Nails, despite a stage full of musicians, have also always incorporated a fair amount of pre recorded samples into their set.

I see it as just another tool in the kit really.

On the other hand I read an interview with Calvin Harris a while back and from what I could tell on the tour he was talking about he basically just pressed play on his laptop then spent the gig miming and waving from behind his turntables.

For me that is just taking the pìss out of the punters.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Cato

[HazBeen]

14 minutes ago, operative451 said:

Thing is, skiffle and music hall are dead too. So what? 

I'm currently watching Billie Eilish at radio1's big weekend and ver kids are screaming and crying down the front just as much as ever. Music evolves, I  don't really understand why that upsets people so much...

I don’t think popularity has anything to do with it. And yes Billie Eilish is huge, guitar based music not so much. But the OP stated Rock is dead it has nothing more to say. This is incorrect on both fronts. 

If topic stated, Rock is no longer as popular as before, many responses would be different.

[Leonard Smalls]

1 hour ago, Cato said:

They still put on a hell of a show.

They put on a helluva lot of shows too... I remember when we supported them on about 15-20 dates one year - they did 300 gigs altogether. But then with 2 small combos, 2 guitars and a DAT machine they all fitted easily in their manager's mini!

[spongebob]

4 hours ago, Cato said:

I was a big fan of Cater USM in the 90s and before they expanded the duo to include other musicians about 70% of their live show was backing tracks and samples with only the guitars and vocals truly being live.

 

Jeez! I saw them as a trio with a live drummer, and again on their last UK tour before they split up - think they were a 6-piece or something by then!😀

Edited May 26, 2019 by spongebob

[Stub Mandrel]

49 minutes ago, Meddle said:

All these old boomer bands can't bow out gracefully, so you end up paying £80 to see the Nth generation lineup of a once-great band, with the roadie's brother on drums and the original guitarist's second cousin filling in, and the singer is some ancient reformed alcoholic with a flat-ironed face and badly dyed hair. These bands sound terrible now, and have none of the blood or fire that made them famous in the first place.

Some bands do... have you heard any recent Hawkwind?

48 minutes ago, Meddle said:

Why else would it be newsworthy when Roger Daltrey starts whinging about Brexit; coming across like a pensioner who should be digging a patch of weeds somewhere in Jaywick. 

Not unlike the Kinks and the Beatles moaning about income tax...

[Guest subaudio]

26 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Some bands do... have you heard any recent Hawkwind?

Not unlike the Kinks and the Beatles moaning about income tax...

Gong are sounding really good recently.

Again it seems to confirm that nothing worth it's salt is coming from the mainstream.

[Geek99]

On 25/05/2019 at 17:48, Vinny said:

It's hard not to concede the point for having nothing more to say, though.

...*puts on best Basil Rathbone voice*...

Get yer rocks off, get yer rocks off, honey
Shake 'em, now-now, get 'em off downtown
Get yer rocks off, get yer rocks off, honey
Shake 'em now-now, get 'em off downtown.

Now that's the finest pondering of the human condition right there.

That’s facking poetry, isn’t it ? 😒

[jazzmanb]

On 24/05/2019 at 17:28, FinnDave said:

I have read this thread from start to present end, and have no idea who this Gillespie character is. I thought at first it referred to dizzy of that ilk, but obviously not.

Rock ain't dead, it's just no longer at the cutting edge of fashion, an industry which by its very nature needs to aways be finding something 'new'.

Primal scream singer who were no more than a 3rd rate Rolling stones

[dmccombe7]

Rock and Prog were the big thing in my day and in my social circle. Its what most bands were playing in late 70's. Its always been there but nowhere near as much as it use to be.

What i'm seeing now is a comeback of many rock styles including Prog so i would say its not dying but just comes and goes like waves on the sea. 

Don't think it will ever die out as too many people still listen and want to play it.

I've seen more ridiculous trendy pop music come and go than rock but then again i'm no expert either.......just an opinion.

Dave

[mikel]

Rock, and indeed any genre, has plenty to say. Any individual song with a message has something to say.

[Guest subaudio]

20 hours ago, Meddle said:

Not good. For me, Hawkwind were good from their debut through to Space Ritual. The stuff they recorded subsequently with Lemmy (Hall of the Mountain Grill et al) was too stodgy, and a musically basic band trying to make overt prog rock albums (in my opinion). They had another blip of good quality with Levitation, but their catalog is completely diluted with complete drivel; especially when they dabbled in that crusty techno stuff in the '90s. Catweazle and co making acid trance. Terrible.

I love the idea of Hawkwind, but sometimes the actual music is really weak, which only serves to demonstrate how good their stuff was when they were on top! Their fanbase also seems annoyingly cliquey and insular (and willing to buy any old rubbish) and, when they had that over-compensating midget on bass for a while, they seemed to court a slightly ugly National Front/biker element of society as well. 

 

Saying all that, Dibs likes my photos on Instagram and seems an all-round lovely guy. 

 

Gong are on a completely different lineup to anything that recorded the 'Radio Gnome Trilogy' stuff in the '70s.

I saw Gong back in 2009, when Daevid Allen was still alive, and they were pretty good! 

They are not the OG line up but I'd definitely buy a ticket for the new material, I believe the last guitarist with Cardiacs is on lead vox and guitar.

[WHUFC BASS]

He does have a point. Every decade within rock music, there has been a new genre that just blows everything out of the water and rips up the rule book - the 50s was rock 'n' roll, the 60s was the Beatles and Stones, the 70s was Sabbath, Zepp, Pistols, the 80s was New Wave , the 90s was Brit-pop, 00s and beyond have been a steady decline in originality IMO. There have been the odd exceptions with various stand outs but it's really been like digging for diamonds in a steaming pile of dogshit.

Radio hasn't helped one bit. The usual crap being pumped out on repeat has tempered people's musical tastes to the point where they'll accept any old nonsense and call it genius.

I have a theory why.

There isn't the widespread hard times as there have been in previous decades coupled with too many distractions such as TV, internet and gaming. Hard times produce great music. I can't really explain why, but look at the times (I'm talking about the UK here) when recession, unemployment and general hardships have been rife. People have produced the best music and also some great musicians have come to the fore. In turn, you had DJs who would support this. Personally I think the period from 77 - 83 was probably the best years for rock music. You only have to look at the charts to see that. I've chosen a date in 1979  (it was my 9th birthday) and come up with this ...

https://www.officialcharts.com/charts/singles-chart/19791007/7501/

What a list of great rock acts in the national singles chart !

You'd never see anything like that now, there simply isn't the will or the way to produce great rock music. Don't get me wrong though, it's not all doom and gloom. There's still some great bands, some great gigs and some great musicians, all I'm saying, it's getting harder to find them.

Edited May 27, 2019 by WHUFC BASS

[Stub Mandrel]

51 minutes ago, WHUFC BASS said:

Radio hasn't helped one bit. The usual crap being pumped out on repeat has tempered people's musical tastes to the point where they'll accept any old nonsense and call it genius

I heard a song I hadn't heard before on the radio, I thought 's**t that's good' and got google to identify it.

"You can't get away" by Mountain. Methinks its about time I bought a copy of Nantuncket Sleigh Ride. (album)

57 minutes ago, WHUFC BASS said:

Hard times produce great music. I can't really explain why, but look at the times (I'm talking about the UK here) when recession, unemployment and general hardships have been rife. People have produced the best music and also some great musicians have come to the fore.

On the bright side, we obviously have a lot to look forward to...