The Box PA Speakers

[Stub Mandrel]

25 minutes ago, BobBracker2222 said:

What is this horn?
On the speakers there would appear to be 2 cones, one behind the metal mesh and one very small one on top of that, is that top one what they call a horn?

 

Do you think I need sand bags? 

 

I don't understand, what is this boost and cut

 

There is an out port of the speakers with an XLR port. I am just wondering if I plug that in if it will cut out all sound that would normally go though the speaker

Would be nice to test record them in my flat first (with no sound going though the speaker) before I book into a rehearsal room for half a day to do a full test

Horn is the smaller speaker.

Wobbling might make nearby people feel nervous. If it looks like it might fall over if someone knocks against it, you should be nervous and something (like a sandbag) to add stability might be a good idea. Best to make sure it is placed where punters can't knock it.

Boost is increasing, cutting is reducing.

They probably aren't designed to be used with no speaker attached and I don't see the point... it is a PA not a preamp and any effect of adjusting the controls is meaningless unless in the context of how it sounds through the speaker.

 

 

[Phil Starr]

yes the top one is the horn.

You probably don't need to worry about the wobble, but obviously I can't see it so you'll have to decide that for yourself. Speaker stands are never that stable with a heavy speaker on a lightweight stand so you always need to be careful where you put them. It is however one of the areas where quality kit shows it is better made. Our QSC speakers on expensive K&M stands are better than most for example. You can wrap some tape round the top of the stand if you want to make it a tighter fit, but make sure you don't make it so tight you can't remove the speaker.

Most tone controls can turn the tone up or down, the bass control can cut the bass or increase it for example. For most of them 12 o'clock (with the pointer straight upwards) means they are leaving the tone in a neutral position. Some even have a little notch so you can feel a click as you turn the knob to neutral. 

You said "My mixer is all ready set to maximum high EQ and minimum low EQ" That doesn't sound right so I'm suggesting you set everything back to flat and start again with your new speakers. In any case you don't want to adjust the tone at both the speaker and the mixer so set the speaker controls flat and adjust everything at the mixer. 

The output XLR is for driving a second speaker with the same signal as the first, theoretically then you can go on adding more speakers in a daisy chain to make things as loud as you want.

[paul_c2]

Where is the play, when they wobble? The pole is a standard size (35mm) so I'd expect the pole to slide in quite a lot, and engage positively. If its wobbling there, then one or other isn't right. If its just the stand being made out of drinking straws and being really cheap/rubbish.....

Have you tightened everything up once the speaker is on the stand?

[BobBracker2222]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Boost is increasing, cutting is reducing.

But what part of the menu/ settings it this referring to?

 

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

They probably aren't designed to be used with no speaker attached and I don't see the point... it is a PA not a preamp and any effect of adjusting the controls is meaningless unless in the context of how it sounds through the speaker.

Are you saying I should leave all the setting set to default?

 

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Most tone controls can turn the tone up or down, the bass control can cut the bass or increase it for example. For most of them 12 o'clock (with the pointer straight upwards) means they are leaving the tone in a neutral position. Some even have a little notch so you c

I'm not sure what the tone control is as I don't have that on my setting. Do you mean the Sub high pass filter?

 

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

You said "My mixer is all ready set to maximum high EQ and minimum low EQ" That doesn't sound right so I'm suggesting you set everything back to flat and start again with your new speakers. In any case you don't want to adjust the tone at both the speaker and the mixer so set the speaker controls flat and adjust everything at the mixer.

I recorded from my mixer and uploaded it online a while ago, someone said you need to turn the high EQ up and turn the low EQ down on your vocal channel. So that is what I did and it sounded better

 

2 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

Where is the play, when they wobble? The pole is a standard size (35mm) so I'd expect the pole to slide in quite a lot, and engage positively. If its wobbling there, then one or other isn't right. If its just the stand being made out of drinking straws and being really cheap/rubbish.....

Have you tightened everything up once the speaker is on the stand?

All bolts are tight and there is no free play from any of the clamps. With the speakers extended 6 feet from the ground they do wobble back and forth

[Phil Starr]

You are getting very good advice from everyone here. So far everyone is agreeing with each other and giving you consistent advice. In the end it is up to you whether to believe us or 'someone said'. You were told on the very first page that these speakers would be limited in some ways and to at least look at better quality kit if you could afford it. It's not a surprise that a speaker at this price point and presumably matching quality stands are a bit wobbly. We can't see them so you have to decide for yourself if they are so bad as to be unusable and return them. One thing to try is that they seem to have a winged bolt on the base of the speaker to clamp the speaker to the stand. Try tightening that if you haven't already. Don't over tighten though as the plastic case of the speaker isn't likely to be as strong as you are.

Despite what 'someone said' there is only one way to get consistently good sound. Use your ears.

The technique is very simple, start with everything set flat both on your mixer and the speaker. If both are good then that will give you the most natural sound, any adjustments are about correcting any problems, either with the gear, your voice or with the room acoustics, which will change from room to room. You can do the equalisation or EQ from the mixer or using the speaker's eq. Honestly, don't try doing both. Since you'll probably have the mixer next to you when you perform and the speakers probably out of reach it makes sense to set the speaker flat and use the mixer to control it. Make small adjustments and listen after each adjustment, if you think you have it right then return everything to flat and listen again to check it does actually sound as good as you think.

You've chosen a speaker with DSP, where a computer runs the eq and you have to enter the instructions through a menu. We don't have the manual so you will have to solve that yourself by reading the manual. Another reason to set everything flat and use the tone controls on the mixer. However the DSP will protect the speaker from anything silly you might do (like turning the bass control up fully) you can experiment away without fear. 

A tone control is anything that controls the tone. they may be bass, middle and treble or they may be labelled by frequency 50Hz, 320Hz and so on. They may be knobs, sliders or on a screen but they all do the same thing. Almost all will either boost or cut the sound and have a middle position that is flat. Knobs and sliders are easier to understand than computers but they are doing the same thing. 

[RichardH]

13 hours ago, BobBracker2222 said:

All bolts are tight and there is no free play from any of the clamps. With the speakers extended 6 feet from the ground they do wobble back and forth

Do you mean the pole sways a bit? As others have said, that is likely to be the case to an extent. However, if the speaker is loose on the pole then that doesn't sound right.

Can I recommend this book? It may answer a lot of your questions (though won't be specific to your setup).

 

[BreadBin]

A photo of the speakers on stands might help, the positioning of the legs is important.

[BobBracker2222]

7 hours ago, RichardH said:

Do you mean the pole sways a bit? As others have said, that is likely to be the case to an extent. However, if the speaker is loose on the pole then that doesn't sound right.

Can I recommend this book? It may answer a lot of your questions (though won't be specific to your setup).

 

Again all clamps have been tightned

But I have attached some photos of the stand

 

How do you set the volume? are db supposed to be set at zero? what dose the line mena on the knob?

[stevie]

This is a wind-up, isn't it?🙂

[paul_c2]

LOL I was thinking that too. 

That's quite a sophisticated speaker, its its own little mixer, amazing what you get for the money you paid. I suspect its all a bit of a gimmick though and a lot of the settings are going to be pretty much unusable. Unfortunately.......it probably has a Chinglish manual too.

[Jack]

42 minutes ago, stevie said:

This is a wind-up, isn't it?🙂

I'm starting to wonder that too.

 

Assuming it isn't: OP, many people are trying to give you good advice on here but with your complete lack of understanding it's very difficult to help you. Nothing, nothing, will be as good as paying a local sound engineer for a few hours of their time to walk you through some of the basics of setting up your system. Where are you? Maybe a local basschatter will step up? And I second the recommendation for the book above, it's a good read.

[RichardH]

22 minutes ago, Jack said:

Nothing, nothing, will be as good as paying a local sound engineer for a few hours of their time to walk you through some of the basics of setting up your system. Where are you? Maybe a local basschatter will step up? 

That sounds like an excellent idea. I would be willing to help if you are anywhere near Lewes. Though your best bet would be to contact the rehearsal studio you are intending to use and ask there - that would be the best place to get hold of an engineer.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, stevie said:

This is a wind-up, isn't it?🙂

First rule of internet - assume good faith.

I think the question doesn't mean the 'line' on the knob, he means the word Line - as related to the 0, I assume which means 0dB with line level signals (from a preamp) being attenuated below that and mic level signals being amplified.

So I suggest he has it right with the knob pointing at 'line' when being used with his mixer.

[Stub Mandrel]

58 minutes ago, Jack said:

And I second the recommendation for the book above, it's a good read.

I've ordered myself copy - I need to get up to date on modern practice, my experience is a quarter century or more out of date!

[BobBracker2222]

Woooweee the OP invested all this money just for a wind up and the purpose of trolling!! It cant be true, the photos must be fake right?

[BobBracker2222]

5 hours ago, Jack said:

I'm starting to wonder that too.

 

Assuming it isn't: OP, many people are trying to give you good advice on here but with your complete lack of understanding it's very difficult to help you. Nothing, nothing, will be as good as paying a local sound engineer for a few hours of their time to walk you through some of the basics of setting up your system. Where are you? Maybe a local basschatter will step up? And I second the recommendation for the book above, it's a good read.

Manchester

[BobBracker2222]

4 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

First rule of internet - assume good faith.

I think the question doesn't mean the 'line' on the knob, he means the word Line - as related to the 0, I assume which means 0dB with line level signals (from a preamp) being attenuated below that and mic level signals being amplified.

So I suggest he has it right with the knob pointing at 'line' when being used with his mixer.

I know the photos are quite blurry but if you zoom in on the knobs you can see
-00, line, zero, mic, max

[paul_c2]

The labels are meaningful only if you know (technically) what a dB actually is - its a measure of ratio or proportion - and that a line level signal is typically something like 1000x stronger (in voltage) than a mic level signal. The inputs have a wide-ranging level control so its able to accept both a mic and line level, just that the knob needs setting as appropriate - set it wrong and you'll either have silence, or huge amounts of distortion/feedback/clipping (it probably clips the signals so while it would sound god-awful, is unlikely to physically damage anything).

https://www.thebroadcastbridge.com/content/entry/7578/the-difference-between-line-and-mic-level-audio explains it a bit better.

Having said that, for simplicity, you don't really need to worry too much about the actual numbers, just turn the level controls to zero before plugging anything in and gradually turn it up.

[BobBracker2222]

Do I need to balance the "line" knob with the "leval" on LED screen set to 0db (as seen in photos)?

 

Or which one do I turn up and down for volume?

[Dan Dare]

10 hours ago, BobBracker2222 said:

Do I need to balance the "line" knob with the "leval" on LED screen set to 0db (as seen in photos)?

Or which one do I turn up and down for volume?

The knob labelled "line", "mic", etc controls the amount of signal entering the speaker. If you are feeding it from a mixing desk or other high level source, you should set it to "line". The "0db" setting on the screen shows the amount of signal the speaker is receiving. I assume you are feeding it with a mixing desk. In that case, set the knob to "line" and control the overall volume with the main output faders on the desk (they determine the level of signal the desk is sending to the speaker). However, you need to know how to set up your mixing desk properly in order to get a good result. As several others suggest, you should really get someone who knows what they are doing to show you (either pay an engineer or buy a knowledgeable friend a drink to show you). It isn't rocket science, but this thread could last until eternity and you still won't be any the wiser...

[paul_c2]

As above, really. I don't have a speaker with a DSP and LED display on the back, but it appears what this can show, is the instantaneous level coming into the speaker. Now whether that "0dB" label is simply an arbitrary level someone has chosen (and the speaker would happily accept a much stronger signal until it distorts/clips) or whether it is the max level beyond it clips, I don't know (I did have a quick look and couldn't find a manual for it online).

You did get a manual or instructions with this thing? You have read it, right?

And as above, the actual "volume" level - its 2 things really. For an overall basic "how loud am I going to play the concert" you'd use the knob at the back of the speaker to set that - you might do a much smaller venue where its appropriate to set it well below full volume. For fine adjustments of the volume you'd use the main slider on a mixing desk as you go along.

[RichardH]

I had a quick look at the manual on the Thomann page, and it's not particularly fulsome - it assumes a fair bit of prior knowledge.

For each of the two inputs, they are dual purpose - you can either plug a line level source in or a Microphone. The manual states

One volume control for each signal input. Turn the volume control clockwise to increase the volume. Turn it counterclockwise to reduce the volume. When using the input for a line signal, turn the knob no further than to position [0]. When using the input for a microphone, you can turn the knob up to position [MAX] .

Remember that "0" in this situation is not no volume - that is where the knob is fully anticlockwise - minus infinity. 0 is a reference point.

...so basically don't turn the knob up beyond the 0 position when running a line level source into it, but if using a mic directly, you can turn it up to MAX.

Think of this knob as the master volume control. So if you have a mixer plugged in to it, you would set the knob to the 0 position, then set your mixer output to nothing. Then bring up the mixer output level until you reach the volume level you want. You can then control the volume from the mixer.

 

[BobBracker2222]

10 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

The knob labelled "line", "mic", etc controls the amount of signal entering the speaker. If you are feeding it from a mixing desk or other high level source, you should set it to "line". The "0db" setting on the screen shows the amount of signal the speaker is receiving. I assume you are feeding it with a mixing desk. In that case, set the knob to "line" and control the overall volume with the main output faders on the desk (they determine the level of signal the desk is sending to the speaker). However, you need to know how to set up your mixing desk properly in order to get a good result. As several others suggest, you should really get someone who knows what they are doing to show you (either pay an engineer or buy a knowledgeable friend a drink to show you). It isn't rocket science, but this thread could last until eternity and you still won't be any the wiser...

So you are saying set the knob to line and the db to zero and control the volume from the mixer right?

I was hopping on booking into a rehearsal room and the guy giving me a bit of a hard setting it all up. But regarding hiring a sound engineer, how would I go about this? As it would have to be someone that has premises where the equipment can be set up and used. I don't know of any musicians  that would help me do this (or that I get on with!)

 

10 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

You did get a manual or instructions with this thing? You have read it, right? 

Yes but same with the mixer, the manuals are not very helpfull

 

10 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

And as above, the actual "volume" level - its 2 things really. For an overall basic "how loud am I going to play the concert" you'd use the knob at the back of the speaker to set that - you might do a much smaller venue where its appropriate to set it well below full volume. For fine adjustments of the volume you'd use the main slider on a mixing desk as you go along.

But this is different! Your saying use the knob on the back of the speaker to up or down the volume

 

10 hours ago, RichardH said:

One volume control for each signal input. Turn the volume control clockwise to increase the volume. Turn it counterclockwise to reduce the volume. When using the input for a line signal, turn the knob no further than to position [0]. When using the input for a microphone, you can turn the knob up to position [MAX] .

Dose a line signal mean it comes from my mixer desk? And microphone mean plugging say a shure SM58 into it? I know that microphones need amplifying first to be heard

 

10 hours ago, RichardH said:

Think of this knob as the master volume control. So if you have a mixer plugged in to it, you would set the knob to the 0 position, then set your mixer output to nothing. Then bring up the mixer output level until you reach the volume level you want. You can then control the volume from the mixer.

 

So your saying have the knob set to zero and the db set to zero and control the volume from the mixer?

[BobBracker2222]

Im finding it quite confusing what you are all saying!
There are 3 volume control

the knob on the speakers
The LED screen on the speakers (which is set to zero db by default when you power it up)
And the "main mix" leaver on my mixer (which I have had set to zero db for recording purposes)

For live performance which one should I adjust for volume?

[BobBracker2222]

I have been practicing setting all my equipment up in my flat and packing it down again.
One problem I noticed is when I had the 1/4" sockets plugged into my speakers from my mixer desk (nothing being played though it). When I switch the speakers on and turned the line knob up from the bottom "-00", one of the speaker started making a whistling noise and the other did not

Edited June 4, 2019 by BobBracker2222