EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 55 minutes ago, BigRedX said: Lat year I switched to a Line6 Helix and an RCF745 FRFR speaker - total cost just over £2k new. The bass rig that they replaced cost me about the same at (mostly) second hand prices ten years previously. And is it still love? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 On 09/06/2019 at 10:47, Dudgeman said: .Why do sound Engineers think that DIs are perfectly acceptable for bass sounds? Pretty sure you would never DI a guitar amp... Forgot to comment on this earlier - Two Notes have pretty much got this market nailed. If you still want to lug around that heavy valve amp, you still have options of running it silently - with their load boxes and speaker modelling tech. It's all very, very smart - and very convincing. Again, in a live situation, you would not be able to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 35 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: And is it still love? Absolutely! I'm in the middle of selling the two bass rigs and guitar rig that it is replacing. Also in one band it has allowed me to use my Bass VI without needing a complex dual amp rig for the "guitar" and "bass" sounds that I produce with it. In the other band the FRFR goes under the stand for the backing computer for a completely minimal stage footprint. I cannot ever see myself going back to a "conventional" bass rig unless I joined a band that required one for show (and it would only be for show) and they had a road crew to move it for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 New Bonamassa tour mech! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 22 minutes ago, BigRedX said: I cannot ever see myself going back to a "conventional" bass rig unless I joined a band that required one for show (and it would only be for show) and they had a road crew to move it for me. You just have a traditional cab carcass and stick your 745 into it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 24 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: New Bonamassa tour mech! Rumour has it, that they've stumbled upon this thread and are no commissioning a set of Bonamassa earplugs for the unlucky people in the audience. Basically, a bit of amber with a mosquito in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Bonamassasaurus? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: Bonamassasaurus? Doyouthinkheheardus more like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said: New Bonamassa tour mech! I'm sure there's a Django Reinhardt joke in there too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@23 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 8 hours ago, EBS_freak said: You just have a traditional cab carcass and stick your 745 into it! I just did a live video for a country artist and did just that 😂 Helix Stomp and FRFR out of sight in the shell of an old Fender Bassman. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Awesome. At a previous geek meet we came up with the idea of lightweight Ampeg and Marshall etc flight cases, basically empty boxes to use to carry all your kit in then stack the empty boxes on stage to look the part complete with battery powered LED power lights, you could even put a mic in front to keep the dinosaurs in the audience happy and arguing that amps and cabs are still needed! An Ampeg 8x10 would make an ideal lighting rig case, behringer mixer in the head with all the XLRs coming out the back! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 18 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: Awesome. At a previous geek meet we came up with the idea of lightweight Ampeg and Marshall etc flight cases, basically empty boxes to use to carry all your kit in then stack the empty boxes on stage to look the part complete with battery powered LED power lights, you could even put a mic in front to keep the dinosaurs in the audience happy and arguing that amps and cabs are still needed! An Ampeg 8x10 would make an ideal lighting rig case, behringer mixer in the head with all the XLRs coming out the back! Ah yes, the interchangeable fuzzy felt - in case you felt like changing brands. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 37 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: Awesome. At a previous geek meet we came up with the idea of lightweight Ampeg and Marshall etc flight cases, basically empty boxes to use to carry all your kit in then stack the empty boxes on stage to look the part complete with battery powered LED power lights, you could even put a mic in front to keep the dinosaurs in the audience happy and arguing that amps and cabs are still needed! An Ampeg 8x10 would make an ideal lighting rig case, behringer mixer in the head with all the XLRs coming out the back! I think Neil Young beat you to it by about 40 years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 That's what happens when you get the measurements mixed up between metric and imperial! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Those speaker logos though. Still... at least no overhang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Peeling tolex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said: Peeling tolex? Don't start 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 23 hours ago, EBS_freak said: Forgot to comment on this earlier - Two Notes have pretty much got this market nailed. If you still want to lug around that heavy valve amp, you still have options of running it silently - with their load boxes and speaker modelling tech. It's all very, very smart - and very convincing. Again, in a live situation, you would not be able to tell. As have Hughes & Kettner with their Red Box system. As I said in a previous post, in the studio on my Tube 50 combo, the Red Box output was virtually indistinguishable from a SM57 on the 12" speaker, and for live use I always preferred to use the DI rather than muck about with another mic on stage. This was in the late 90s and use to perplex many PA engineers. Often at multi-band gigs I'd find after the change-over my amp DI from the soundcheck had been replaced with a mic on the speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 25 minutes ago, BigRedX said: As have Hughes & Kettner with their Red Box system. As I said in a previous post, in the studio on my Tube 50 combo, the Red Box output was virtually indistinguishable from a SM57 on the 12" speaker, and for live use I always preferred to use the DI rather than muck about with another mic on stage. This was in the late 90s and use to perplex many PA engineers. Often at multi-band gigs I'd find after the change-over my amp DI from the soundcheck had been replaced with a mic on the speaker. Indeed - although somewhat more lo tech than the DSP solutions with their seemingly infinite things to configure and twiddle. Mind you, as is often the case, the less to mess with, the better. Incidentally - I'm going to have to read back into the Red Box stuff. I used to play in a band where the guitarist used a Red Box and I seem to recall that it's meant emulate the sound of a cab rather than a miced cab. But then again, I may be mistaken. To be honest, either is viable - and if people want the sound of their cab, then yeah, the Red Box is perfect for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudgeman Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) On 11/06/2019 at 11:03, BigRedX said: When I was last playing guitar live I was DI'ing my guitar amp. But then I was running a Hughes & Kuttner Tube 50 with a built-in Red Box DI system. We did an A/B test in the studio and the DI feed was virtually indistinguishable from that of an SM57 off-axis to the 12" speaker. That's really cool if it works for you. I haven't come across many guitar amps with a DI out but then I'm not a guitarist so maybe tech has moved on and it is a more common feature on modern amps.( oops just read that it was from the 90s haha) If I was running clean bass amps I would have no issue with DI. I am simply not a fan of only using IEM.. I have pro quality Sennheiser Iems available but live I don't like them....I sweat a lot..they slip (even my moulded ones) ..it blocks out the crowd noise, i have never had a decent mix from the board and the end for me was when one SE decided to start talking to me mid song.. it was funny..but irritating in equal measure...lol... I like an onstage cab I prefer the sound vibe it gives me. It's the same at home..If running through a DAW for practice I always use room monitor's..don't like wearing headphones unless I am recording and I am forced to. I would like to clarify that I am not in the camp of agreeing with JB. Running 50w /100w Valve amps flat out is pretty daft and totally unecessary..... Edited June 12, 2019 by Dudgeman misread earlier post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 (edited) It occurs to me this conversation has been very all-or-nothing. It's not a straight choice between a silent stage and IEMs, or cranking multiple large guitar amps regardless of the stage and venue size. There are some excellent smaller valve amps available now (and good attenuators for the old favourite amps), and a lot of musicians can find a sweet spot in between those two poles. Edited June 12, 2019 by Beer of the Bass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daz39 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Just now, Beer of the Bass said: It occurs to me this conversation has been very all-or-nothing. It's not a straight choice between a silent stage and IEMs, or cranking multiple large guitar amps regardless of the stage and venue size. There are some excellent smaller valve amps available now, and a lot,of musicians can find a sweet spot in between those two poles. Agreed. I think JB is of the 'Go big or go home persuasion,' and also very much in the 'this is how my heroes did it,' I can see where he's coming from, he and some fans will want to hear that sound, but it's not fair on those who want to enjoy a rawk/blues concert without bleeding ears. Hope his band wear protection! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Daz39 said: Agreed. I think JB is of the 'Go big or go home persuasion,' and also very much in the 'this is how my heroes did it,' I can see where he's coming from, he and some fans will want to hear that sound, but it's not fair on those who want to enjoy a rawk/blues concert without bleeding ears. Hope his band wear protection! Yep, I feel like he's taking a purist stance on something that his heroes actually did for pragmatic reasons at the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said: Yep, I feel like he's taking a purist stance on something that his heroes actually did for pragmatic reasons at the time. Is it materially different (aside from heraing damage concerns) from those who want to perform old music with serpents and clavichords? That said, my guitarist brother uses a 30W marshall valve amp and a 1x10 cab for even the biggest gigs. I've got a 1x12 marshall cab he's getting for use at smaller gigs, he currently uses and Orange 1x12 with the same amp. You don't need sheer power/volume to get an 'authentic' sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, Daz39 said: Agreed. I think JB is of the 'Go big or go home persuasion,' and also very much in the 'this is how my heroes did it,' I can see where he's coming from, he and some fans will want to hear that sound, but it's not fair on those who want to enjoy a rawk/blues concert without bleeding ears. Hope his band wear protection! Yep, and there are some fans/promoters that look at a bands backline and if all they see are small combos don’t think they’re a real band. Listening with the eyes unfortunately. We were told once that a fairly high profile band wouldn’t want to use our gear. Well they did use it and they loved it - our gear back then being a Class D amp/212 for bass and 50watt 212 combo for guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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