Joe Bonamassa on in-ear monitors

[stingrayPete1977]

There's still loads of dinosaur promoters and venue owners etc, some of them are also in these loud dinosaur rock bands themselves! 

[Doctor J]

To play Devil’s advocate for a moment, what might be overlooked is the effect of stage volume on the instrument itself. I’m no fan of Mr. Bonamassa so can’t say it applies to him for sure, but I know in any guitarist role I’ve had the manipulation and use of feedback has been a part of the music on stage. I’m sure there is some sort of Hendrix influence in there, so perhaps he too struggled to find feedback sweet-spots on a quiet stage and found himself crushed by silent disappointment? I’m not aware of any IEMs for the guitar itself, though it could be that research continues as we speak.

[EBS_freak]

34 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

To play Devil’s advocate for a moment, what might be overlooked is the effect of stage volume on the instrument itself. I’m no fan of Mr. Bonamassa so can’t say it applies to him for sure, but I know in any guitarist role I’ve had the manipulation and use of feedback has been a part of the music on stage. I’m sure there is some sort of Hendrix influence in there, so perhaps he too struggled to find feedback sweet-spots on a quiet stage and found himself crushed by silent disappointment? I’m not aware of any IEMs for the guitar itself, though it could be that research continues as we speak.

Digitech Freqout.

Mind you, the dinosaurs would probably thing that's not rock n roll either.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

I’m not aware of any IEMs for the guitar itself, though it could be that research continues as we speak.

E-bow?

 

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Doctor J said:

I’m not aware of any IEMs for the guitar itself, though it could be that research continues as we speak.

 

3 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

E-bow?

 

Fernandes sustainer.

Or a small (<50watt) amp in the right position on stage.

[Beer of the Bass]

3 hours ago, Doctor J said:

To play Devil’s advocate for a moment, what might be overlooked is the effect of stage volume on the instrument itself. I’m no fan of Mr. Bonamassa so can’t say it applies to him for sure, but I know in any guitarist role I’ve had the manipulation and use of feedback has been a part of the music on stage. I’m sure there is some sort of Hendrix influence in there, so perhaps he too struggled to find feedback sweet-spots on a quiet stage and found himself crushed by silent disappointment? I’m not aware of any IEMs for the guitar itself, though it could be that research continues as we speak.

Certainly, where that's a component of a guitarists style, there's a good argument for some volume on stage.  But it rarely needs multiple high powered amps running all-out. 

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

Or a small (<50watt) amp in the right position on stage.

Agreed,  I can get feedback out of my 30W Vox Valvetronix at far from flat-out. It's more about gain than sheer volume.

[peteb]

On 09/06/2019 at 19:34, Beer of the Bass said:

I can sort of understand where Bonamassa is coming from.  I'm sure a majority of his audiences are guitarists themselves, and there's very much an element of vicariously living out their blooze rock fantasies through him.  So even if he could get sounds so close no-one could tell the difference using a couple of quality modern guitars, in-ears and a Kemper, the audience want an array of noteworthy vintage guitars through a load of unobtainable boutique or vintage amps, cranked up in a way they could never get away with at the local blues jam night.  It's part of the draw, I think. 

It’s very rare these days that an onstage or FOH sound at a big concert is anywhere near loud enough to leave anyone’s ears bleeding.

I’m kinda with JB on this issue, but it obviously depends on the situation. I saw a YouTube clip of Guthrie Govan where he was going through his live rig, where he said that he considered that IEMs took all the fun out of playing in a live band but sometimes they are a necessary evil! I saw a well known band last night where they had front of stage monitors and onstage amps (not massively loud), but the drummer was using IEMs as they were running backing tracks. Mr Bonamassa doesn’t use backing tracks and is obviously an old school type of player, so it’s not surprising he’s going to prefer a more traditional approach.

 I don’t understand why some of the people favouring IEMs / ampless stages here are being so vitriolic. Joe has his own views and if you disagree you still have to recognise that he is massively successful, so whatever he is doing is obviously working. Given the choice I’m always going to be in his camp, but if you can make another way of doing things work then that’s fine by me…

[EBS_freak]

8 hours ago, peteb said:

It’s very rare these days that an onstage or FOH sound at a big concert is anywhere near loud enough to leave anyone’s ears bleeding.

I’m kinda with JB on this issue, but it obviously depends on the situation. I saw a YouTube clip of Guthrie Govan where he was going through his live rig, where he said that he considered that IEMs took all the fun out of playing in a live band but sometimes they are a necessary evil! I saw a well known band last night where they had front of stage monitors and onstage amps (not massively loud), but the drummer was using IEMs as they were running backing tracks. Mr Bonamassa doesn’t use backing tracks and is obviously an old school type of player, so it’s not surprising he’s going to prefer a more traditional approach.

 I don’t understand why some of the people favouring IEMs / ampless stages here are being so vitriolic. Joe has his own views and if you disagree you still have to recognise that he is massively successful, so whatever he is doing is obviously working. Given the choice I’m always going to be in his camp, but if you can make another way of doing things work then that’s fine by me…

I wouldn't agree with your opening statement at all.

I don't think that anybody is questioning his ability as a player. I personally don't care what he does to get his sound... but I wouldn't want to be in his audience for the reasons cited in his thread. The health of my ears is worth more than risking permanent damage...

[stingrayPete1977]

Like the first batch of dinosaurs this new batch will be extinct in the near future anyway, there's very few young people shying away from technology and its their era, the wall of Marshall amps cliché has been done to death and understandably young people want their own thing, clean stages with light shows and screens is the thing now, who knows what will be going on in another 30 years but the vast majority of bonnamassa fans won't be alive by then, the rest will be deaf! 

Edited June 14, 2019 by stingrayPete1977

[stingrayPete1977]

9 hours ago, peteb said:

It’s very rare these days that an onstage or FOH sound at a big concert is anywhere near loud enough to leave anyone’s ears bleeding.

My mate Paul (who EBS_freak also knows) walked out of the Velvet Revolver gig at the NIA because it was so loud, he's a loud drummer in an old school rock band himself! 

I struggled on with my fingers in my ears, my ears were ringing for the next 24 hours.

[EBS_freak]

6 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

My mate Paul (who EBS_freak also knows) walked out of the Velvet Revolver gig at the NIA because it was so loud, he's a loud drummer in an old school rock band himself! 

I struggled on with my fingers in my ears, my ears were ringing for the next 24 hours.

And Slash is a JH Audio IEM user. His ears were OK 😜 (although they are probably shot already)

[EBS_freak]

12 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

Like the first batch of dinosaurs this new batch will be extinct in the near future anyway, there's very few young people shying away from technology and its their era, the wall of Marshall amps cliché has been done to death and understandably young people want their own thing, clean stages with light shows and screens is the thing now, who knows what will be going on in another 30 years but the vast majority of bonnamassa fans won't be alive by then, the rest will be deaf! 

Agreed - ask any aspiring rock star kid whether they would want a wall of Marshall’s or a stage show akin to Muse... well, I think I already know which answer is going to get the votes....

[stingrayPete1977]

I can't remember if he was on ears at the time, might have been that gig that turned him onto them! 

Bbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggg........ 

[EBS_freak]

Just now, stingrayPete1977 said:

I can't remember if he was on ears at the time, might have been that gig that turned him onto them! 

Bbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggg........ 

Yeah. But ringing is cool. Or something like that.

[stingrayPete1977]

WHAT?! 

[EBS_freak]

Huh?

[stingrayPete1977]

I can't hear you but I'm assured this gold top sounds awesome...... WHAT YOU SAY..... EH?.... COME AGAIN.... 

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

My mate Paul (who EBS_freak also knows) walked out of the Velvet Revolver gig at the NIA because it was so loud, he's a loud drummer in an old school rock band himself! 

I struggled on with my fingers in my ears, my ears were ringing for the next 24 hours.

I saw them at Brixton and when they started the first song it was so loud I couldn’t work out what song it was until the chorus. I swiftly moved upstairs and to the back where I could actually tell what songs were being played.

[stingrayPete1977]

Yep exactly the same, just loud mush. 

[peteb]

I've never seen VR, but I saw Magnum a couple of nights ago and they weren't particularly loud at all, either onstage or in the auditorium (using onstage amps & monitors). 

More to the point when discussing Joe Bonamassa, I saw Walter Trout about a year ago in a large club and he just wasn't loud enough. I know that Walter prefers a quiet stage these days (but doesn't use IMEs) but even FOH was way too quiet. 

[stingrayPete1977]

That's another win for in ears, players get the volume they desire and the audience can get theirs. 

[Muzz]

My other half and I ended up standing at the back wall of the Manchester Arena the last gig we went to (IIRC it was Alterbridge), because the sound was so ridiculously loud and poor. We moved around all over the place trying to find where the decent sound was. It wasn't anywhere in the auditorium. But it was stupidly loud.

On the other hand, I can't recall a gig at The Ritz in Manchester that's been too loud, but then that is a smaller venue, and they're not trying to achieve 130db 150 yards from the FOH...

Edited June 14, 2019 by Muzz

[mcnach]

21 hours ago, Beer of the Bass said:

Certainly, where that's a component of a guitarists style, there's a good argument for some volume on stage.  But it rarely needs multiple high powered amps running all-out. 

 

Exactly.

I get very controllable feedback onstage without crazy volume using my Stingray with overdrive by facing the speakers and twidding my mids EQ control. And if I can do that with a bass...

There are several ways to achieve it that don't require stripping the plaster off the walls with sheer volume.

[mcnach]

16 hours ago, peteb said:

Joe has his own views and if you disagree you still have to recognise that he is massively successful, so whatever he is doing is obviously working. Given the choice I’m always going to be in his camp, but if you can make another way of doing things work then that’s fine by me…

 

It works in the sense that he gets the effect he seeks and he likes what he hears. But he seems to be disregarding the audience's health and 'listening pleasure', by many accounts... and it is 100% avoidable. Seems a little donkey-headed to me, when he is in a position to be able to afford whatever system he wants to use. If the sound onstage is so loud that it makes mixing FOH difficult... you need to wonder whether he plays for his own pleasure or for an audience.