Joe Bonamassa on in-ear monitors

[EBS_freak]

14 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

It's odd, just after seeing Mr Bonamassa explain that electric guitarists must use all of the amps, turned all of the way up, all of the time, I pottered over to another forum where double bassists were bragging about using no amp and supposedly never needing one even with drums.  And both were equally absolute about it!  

The difference being that the bassists can still hear and the guitarists are eh? eh? eh? eh? what? eh? what you say?

Can't put a price on tone.

[EBS_freak]

40 minutes ago, ped said:

I saw a band recently who were all using IEMs and it was the best sound out front I’ve ever heard. 

The cleaner you can get each of the elements that make up the complete mix, the better the engineer can get it sounding.

With Mr Bonamassa, looks like being a sound engineer and trying to deliver a good mix is futile.

[Passinwind]

9 hours ago, Beer of the Bass said:

It's odd, just after seeing Mr Bonamassa explain that electric guitarists must use all of the amps, turned all of the way up, all of the time, I pottered over to another forum where double bassists were bragging about using no amp and supposedly never needing one even with drums.  And both were equally absolute about it!  

When I saw Charlie Mingus play he used no amp. He also told everyone to sit down and shut up, or else he was gonna clock 'em. Too bad Mingus is gone, we could've had a proper cage match between those two.

[Beer of the Bass]

15 minutes ago, Passinwind said:

When I saw Charlie Mingus play he used no amp. He also told everyone to sit down and shut up, or else he was gonna clock 'em. Too bad Mingus is gone, we could've had a proper cage match between those two.

I'm not sure it'd be a fair contest! Even one of Mingus' famed open letters to Downbeat would probably be devastating enough...

[Stub Mandrel]

18 minutes ago, Passinwind said:

When I saw Charlie Mingus play he used no amp. He also told everyone to sit down and shut up, or else he was gonna clock 'em. Too bad Mingus is gone, we could've had a proper cage match between those two.

I saw Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick in a pub in Brighton.

The room was so small people were crowded outside the door.

They went to get started looked at each other and Martin said 'let's not bother with the amps!'

I spent a magical hour or two narrowly avoiding being poked in the eye by Swarbie's bow.

[EBS_freak]

I’m guessing those guys are defo planted in the acoustic world and not looking for an electric guitar through a cranked amp tone!

[Grangur]

8 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I’m guessing those guys are defo planted in the acoustic world and not looking for an electric guitar through a cranked amp tone!

In a small room, I guess the mention of amps was ironic. So not exactly like Motoerhead unplugged

[6feet7]

When Joe B was playing the Hammersmith Apollo (or whatever it's called nowadays) a few years ago, my drummer friend and I looked at one another (we couldn't speak and hear as it was too loud) and left after two songs. It was so loud we were almost physically sick. I wont go and see him again.

[Stub Mandrel]

1 hour ago, Grangur said:

In a small room, I guess the mention of amps was ironic. So not exactly like Motoerhead unplugged 

No, they had them all set up ready. Just didn't bother plugging in.

Swarby suffered serious hearing loss in the seventies which were part of the reason why Fairport broke up.

[EBS_freak]

26 minutes ago, 6feet7 said:

When Joe B was playing the Hammersmith Apollo (or whatever it's called nowadays) a few years ago, my drummer friend and I looked at one another (we couldn't speak and hear as it was too loud) and left after two songs. It was so loud we were almost physically sick. I wont go and see him again.

And that was before they turned the PA up.

[Beer of the Bass]

15 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

I saw Martin Carthy and Dave Swarbrick in a pub in Brighton.

The room was so small people were crowded outside the door.

They went to get started looked at each other and Martin said 'let's not bother with the amps!'

I spent a magical hour or two narrowly avoiding being poked in the eye by Swarbie's bow.

I had a similar experience with them at Milngavie Folk Club.  The resident sound guy was having some trouble with the PA setup, Carthy made some surprisingly withering remarks to him, and they opted to go without!  Really glad I got to see those two play together, they were great. 

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Grangur]

Have to agree, @Jus Lukin. I've heard others say RHCP are great live. I took my 14yr old (at the time) son to see them at Earls Court. MAN they were loud, and the sound was like an excruciatingly loud tinny radio.

It may have sounded great in other areas of the hall, but up where we were it was awful and put my son off of going to gigs. Thankfully his hearing seems OK.

[intime-nick]

ha, he sounds like like a total nightmare - a dangerous combination of over-inflated ego, arrogance and stupidity.  i truly hope he goes deaf before he considers his career is over - what an utter job-knocky

[EBS_freak]

Just now, intime-nick said:

ha, he sounds like like a total nightmare - a dangerous combination of over-inflated ego, arrogance and stupidity.  i truly hope he goes deaf before he considers his career is over - what an utter job-knocky

Indeed. It sounds like there's no reasoning with this guy either. I'd imagine when the tender goes out for the PA company, they all do it once and never again.

Interesting to see he uses acrylic screens too... but then defeats the purpose of them by just adding another 3, 4, 5 amps on stage... in addition to the 3, 4, 5 amps that are already there...

I wonder how many of fans who would attend his gigs actually stay away due to his volume?

[LewisK1975]

On 29/05/2019 at 08:06, ped said:

I saw a band recently who were all using IEMs and it was the best sound out front I’ve ever heard. 

Same here - Metallica at Sonisphere 2014 was and still is the best sounding gig (indoors or outdoors) I've ever heard.  All on IEM's and no amps onstage (that I could see anyway).

[Passinwind]

9 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

When did the electric guitar become such a pariah?

It didn't. Once the damaging SPLs required to fill a big room with rock distortion from the stage in the late 60's were no longer needed, guitarists who insisted on cranking 100watt Marshalls where informed that such behaviour was not necessary any more... and to this day some of them can't accept it.

All the eye witness reports I've heard of Hendrix live onstage are that the sound was abysmal- a squall of unintelligible guitar and everything else inaudible. I wasn't there so can't confirm it, but the notion that all bands sounded glorious when all they had were coily cables and volume knobs is very likely myth. Iconic, but myth.

I'd say plenty of people still love the electric guitar- it's a shame to lose those glorious tones (and the rest of the band) to sheer, damaging, and unpleasant volume.

Yep. I saw the original Mahavishnu Orchestra lineup a few times. Great band, but only really tolerable volume-wise in a hockey arena, far far away from the squalor onstage. Bands like Grand Funk, Mountain, and even Jefferson Airplane were even worse though.

[EBS_freak]

12 hours ago, LewisK1975 said:

Same here - Metallica at Sonisphere 2014 was and still is the best sounding gig (indoors or outdoors) I've ever heard.  All on IEM's and no amps onstage (that I could see anyway).

There’s a rig run down on YouTube somewhere - they have run amps off stage for considerable time (Triaxis rigs) - but I seem to recall they have been on AxeFX in more recent years.

[Beer of the Bass]

17 hours ago, Passinwind said:

Yep. I saw the original Mahavishnu Orchestra lineup a few times. Great band, but only really tolerable volume-wise in a hockey arena, far far away from the squalor onstage. Bands like Grand Funk, Mountain, and even Jefferson Airplane were even worse though.

I have a particular soft spot for John McLaughlin's electric playing in the few years before the MO - the spots with Miles Davis, Lifetime, Carla Bley etc.  For me, there's something compelling about that era when he was beginning to bring in rock elements but just cranking up through whatever combo he had around, rather than the pre-meditated wall of Marshalls. 

[Passinwind]

16 minutes ago, Beer of the Bass said:

I have a particular soft spot for John McLaughlin's electric playing in the few years before the MO - the spots with Miles Davis, Lifetime, Carla Bley etc.  For me, there's something compelling about that era when he was beginning to bring in rock elements but just cranking up through whatever combo he had around, rather than the pre-meditated wall of Marshalls. 

Me too. My Goal's Beyond (sic) and Spaces were huge favorites amongst my crew back in the day as well.

[Muzz]

Well, that's all respect for JB out the window, then. The worst type of guitarist mentality, and an admission of his failure to do what so many contemporaries have done, and that's make modern technology work for their sound.

Here's some quotes from a guitarist who is a peer of JB's, Paul Gilbert, who has spoken a lot about his tinnitus and his onstage headphones:

"The purpose of my headphones is the same as the more common ear molds: to block out the stage volume while giving me a controlled mix and volume from the monitor desk...Do you wonder why concerts are always too loud and sound crappy? I wondered until I realized it’s me! Sorry!...I would definitely trade some head-stuffed-into-the- 4x12-moments in exchange for getting some high-end back into my ears."

Now that's a proper (and better) guitarist... 😀

[EBS_freak]

On 31/05/2019 at 15:54, Muzz said:

Well, that's all respect for JB out the window, then. The worst type of guitarist mentality, and an admission of his failure to do what so many contemporaries have done, and that's make modern technology work for their sound.

Here's some quotes from a guitarist who is a peer of JB's, Paul Gilbert, who has spoken a lot about his tinnitus and his onstage headphones:

"The purpose of my headphones is the same as the more common ear molds: to block out the stage volume while giving me a controlled mix and volume from the monitor desk...Do you wonder why concerts are always too loud and sound crappy? I wondered until I realized it’s me! Sorry!...I would definitely trade some head-stuffed-into-the- 4x12-moments in exchange for getting some high-end back into my ears."

Now that's a proper (and better) guitarist... 😀

Guitarists are always the tricksy bunch but they are getting there slowly... especially now tech is helping them along (modellers and the like)... but usually when it's too late and their ears are trashed. This whole "it's not rock n roll" is dated and irresponsible.

Even Slash has embraced inears... not getting what he was needing from inears, he worked alongside JH to get the Lolas perfected. If he can make the move, then everybody can.

Ah well, their loss. It's one thing killing your own ears... but killing others. Pah. Pricks.

[EBS_freak]

News in. Bonamassa open to the idea of letting the PA doing the work...

Here’s his guitar tech doing a line check (with ear defenders)

[gjones]

I understand Mr Bonamassa's point of view, that the sound of his amp, driven to a certain level, creates his particular sound and when he's asked to turn down by the sound engineer, he can no longer get that sound.

On the other hand we have bass players, including me, who spend a fortune on getting the best amp and cab that we can afford, then allow the sound engineer to take a DI (usually pre EQ) from our very, expensive amp, straight to the front of house desk, without a squeak of protest.

Hmmmmm?

 

[EBS_freak]

7 minutes ago, gjones said:

I understand Mr Bonamassa's point of view, that the sound of his amp, driven to a certain level, creates his particular sound and when he's asked to turn down by the sound engineer, he can no longer get that sound.

On the other hand we have bass players, including me, who spend a fortune on getting the best amp and cab that we can afford, then allow the sound engineer to take a DI (usually pre EQ) from our very, expensive amp, straight to the front of house desk, without a squeak of protest.

Hmmmmm?

 

There’s isolation boxes that you can put the speaker cabs in... or even run the amps off stage... both common approaches to the problem. Or do a Springsteen and have the cabs facing up into the air instead of at the audience and vocal mics...

Also re:DI, the processing available on a modern digital desk far outstrips any of the toneshaping that’s available on your amp... and any nuances of “tone” would be lost in a live performance anyway. If it was for a live recording, the recording forum your DI would go to the studio, be reamped and mangled far beyond the original sound coming from your amp anyway!

Edited June 9, 2019 by EBS_freak