Compression & HPF on the cheap

[Pea Turgh]

Hello chums.

I’ve been slowly coming to the conclusion that a compressor & hpf would help me out at gigs.  I’ve read the thumpinator thread, and was going to save my pennies for that first.  Then find a nice transparent comp that doesn’t squish the life out of the sound at a later date.

Then I saw the Cali76.  Damn, that sounds the business.  Then the price tag.  Just, damn.

Then, I saw this TC jobby;

https://m.thomann.de/gb/tc_electronic_spectracomp_bass_compressor.htm?o=0&search=1559330249

I don’t know much about this toneprint business, but could I add some sort of hpf toneprint to the compressor, thus achieving my desires sound-wise?

Your superior knowledge is most graciously invited.

[Al Krow]

I'm not sure that is a possibility on the Spectracomp, but happy to be corrected by someone with greater expertise. 

However you can very easily set up hpf + Spectracomp style compression on the Zoom B1-4 which will cost you just £70. And it will provide a ton of other available effects in addition. 

(It's also an excellent headphone amp with aux in and provides a really usable tuner and worth IMO getting for those alone!). 

[Pea Turgh]

I’ve had a read through the B1-4 thread and I’m put off by mentions of noise and artifacts  at the tail end of notes.  I fear a cali76 purchase on the horizon...

Edited June 1, 2019 by Pea Turgh

[Pea Turgh]

I’m just confusing myself now - the hpf in the Cali76 appears to be set to alter what lows are going to the compressor rather than filtering out inaudible sub bass prior to compressing the whole signal.  Is that right?  I can see why that is useful, but I was after a hpf before compression circuit.

Back to the drawing board...

[JohnDaBass]

28 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said:

I’ve had a read through the B1-4 thread and I’m put off by mentions of noise and artifacts  at the tail end of notes.  I fear a cali76 purchase on the horizon...

I really wouldn't worry too much about the comments on the noise it's miniscule and you probably won't detect it. I totally agree with @Al Krow, try a B1Four and load up some of the patches posted and see if it works for you.

[Al Krow]

Had a Cali 76, I actually preferred the Spectracomp. Only reason for moving the Spectracomp on is that the B1-4 covers off the basses for me. 

Thumpinator + Spectracomp is a very good combination for what you're after. But costs a bit more. 

If you want budget then B1-4 will do the job. The slight noise only gets noticed if you have nothing else in the mix, no aux in, no band mates, just you soloing alone at home. 

[dannybuoy]

The Spectracomp is not only one of the cheapest compressors around, it's one of the best. I also preferred it to the Cali, a very expensive unit considered by many to be the best of the best! And you're right, the HPF in the Cali is not in the audio path. The Zoom multis certainly have some decent compressors plus a HPF, but I still prefer the Spectracomp.

When it comes to a HPF like the Thumpinator, many amps have something similar already built in and just don't advertise it, so it's hard to find this information out. What are you using?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Pea Turgh]

I have an Ampeg Pf350, so I don’t believe that has a hpf.  I also have a muting tuner already (Korg Pitchblack).  I like the look of separate pedals, and you can swap them around, and as everyone keeps saying about heads & cabs vs combos, if one dies it doesn’t take the other with it.

The other thing putting me off the one pedal solution is some of the other Zoom threads here - do you have to run 2 hpf’s in series to get a decent amount of sub cut on the B1-4?

I think i’m just convincing myself to get the separate bits!

[JohnDaBass]

21 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said:

 

The other thing putting me off the one pedal solution is some of the other Zoom threads here - do you have to run 2 hpf’s in series to get a decent amount of sub cut on the B1-4?

I think i’m just convincing myself to get the separate bits!

The new HPF on the B1Four has adjustable frequency cut points( I set mine at 40Hz)  and a 24dB per octave gradient. The MS60B does not have a dedicated HPF but has a great bass preamp that can be setup to emulate a HPF, however to get close to the Thumpinator you need two in series as each only has a 12dB per octave gradient. 

If you are going the single pedal route , as everyone says, start with a Thumpinator and a TC Spectracomp. 

[dannybuoy]

Thumpinator, or perhaps an FDeck or Broughton HPF, depending on why you want a HPF in the first place.

The Thumpinator cuts really low (something like 28-30Hz) so should not have an audible effect on the bass spectrum, but will stop any really low freqs that would make your speaker cones lurch about as they struggled to reproduce them. End result is you can expect your speakers to last longer and to be able to squeeze more clean volume out of your rig.

Those others are adjustable - so you can use them if you want to cut for example everything below 40-50Hz to tighten up the bass and reduce the amount of sub bass yet still keep the important 60-100Hz upper bass range intact. The Broughton does not have as steep a cutoff slope as the Thumpinator though, making it less effective as a <30Hz speaker protector, but much better suited as a form of EQ. The Zoom HPF is similar in operation to the Broughton I believe.

[Pea Turgh]

I think I’m going to go spectracomp & Thumpinator after the shared thoughts here and an afternoon on YouTube!

 

Thanks all!

[Pea Turgh]

Spectracomp tagged on to the Thomann order I’d been hovering over for days.  The Thumpinator will need to wait til next pay day.

I shall report back...

[Al Krow]

8 hours ago, JohnDaBass said:

The new HPF on the B1Four has adjustable frequency cut points( I set mine at 40Hz)  and a 24dB per octave gradient. 

That's good to know. I was under the impression it was only a 12dB per octave cut. 

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, Pea Turgh said:

Spectracomp tagged on to the Thomann order I’d been hovering over for days.  The Thumpinator will need to wait til next pay day.

I shall report back...

Can't fault your choice - exactly the set up I had on my board, until this 'wretched' B1X-4 showed up, which has just survived its first outing on a function gig tonight as my 'pedal board' and tuner

[JohnDaBass]

8 hours ago, Al Krow said:

That's good to know. I was under the impression it was only a 12dB per octave cut. 

SORRY, @Al Krow, I am wrong it is 12dB per octave. Mis-read a previous comment on the B1Four Patches thread!

Apologies to all for the error 

[Al Krow]

Just now, JohnDaBass said:

SORRY, @Al Krow, I am wrong it is 12dB per octave. Mis-read a previous comment on the B1Four Patches thread!

Apologies to all for the error 

Thanks for clarifying, John. I was getting all excited for a moment  

[JohnR]

I recently ordered a Thumpinator but there is a 12 week build time at the moment. I am sure it will be worth the wait.

[Pea Turgh]

1 minute ago, JohnR said:

I recently ordered a Thumpinator but there is a 12 week build time at the moment. I am sure it will be worth the wait.

Whaaat???  Damn!

I forgot about my gig money account so used that for ordering one of these last night!

[JohnR]

Max from [sfx] did say this was worst case and he hoped to be able to do the build quicker.

[Pea Turgh]

Just got my Thumpinator in the post.  I don’t have a gig or rehearsal for a while to test properly, but had a play in the house.

Banging all the strings lightly with the palm of my hand seems to demonstrate the inaudible effect of the Thumpinator - there is a lot less cone movement with the Thumpinator plugged in.

I should think this will have a very positive effect on the compressor now too.  Can’t wait for a gig now!

[visog]

So can you hear the difference of a Thumpinator or LPF on say a B3n directly? I get it that your amp won't have to work as hard amplifying non-audible frequencies but can you hear it directly or do you just get a bit more head-room from your amp working more efficiently?

[Pea Turgh]

There’s no reduction in bass, if that’s what you meant.  I am expecting that at gig volume the only difference will be a clearer sound.

The secondary positive is also the effect on the compression I’m using - imagine previously all that high energy low frequency plosive-type of thump a that would affect the volume at all frequencies that compressor is working on, so whack the stings and you’d have a volume dip in reaction.  Now that high energy low frequency is taken out of the equation, the compressor will only react to the frequencies I can actually hear, leading to a smoother overall sound.

[JohnDaBass]

2 minutes ago, Pea Turgh said:

There’s no reduction in bass, if that’s what you meant.  I am expecting that at gig volume the only difference will be a clearer sound.

The secondary positive is also the effect on the compression I’m using - imagine previously all that high energy low frequency plosive-type of thump a that would affect the volume at all frequencies that compressor is working on, so whack the stings and you’d have a volume dip in reaction.  Now that high energy low frequency is taken out of the equation, the compressor will only react to the frequencies I can actually hear, leading to a smoother overall sound.

Exactly!! 🙂

[JohnR]

On 02/06/2019 at 10:37, JohnR said:

Max from [sfx] did say this was worst case and he hoped to be able to do the build quicker.

It arrived this morning so much faster than expected.