Running a 6x10 and an 8x10 together

[EliasMooseblaster]

1 hour ago, thodrik said:

There is a quite brilliant AC/DC 'Rig Rundown' video showing the set up. The thing that really surprised me was that Angus Young's wall of Marshalls are not dummy cabs, they are all fully loaded cabs being driven by a fleet of Marshall amps that are being run at deliberately off-bias. The techs are constantly swapping in and out amps as they break. 

I suppose if you can do it, do it! Practicality be damned. 

So am I right in thinking that the valves are biased incorrectly? I've heard the legend that the released take of Let There Be Rock was recorded while Angus' amp started to smoulder and eventually melted/caught fire, but is there some tonal advantage to abusing other amp heads like this?

[EBS_freak]

Here's some more modern day lovers of backline....

 

[thodrik]

7 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

So am I right in thinking that the valves are biased incorrectly? I've heard the legend that the released take of Let There Be Rock was recorded while Angus' amp started to smoulder and eventually melted/caught fire, but is there some tonal advantage to abusing other amp heads like this?

According to Angus's techs, there is apparently some tonal benefits, as apparently Angus thinks that it makes the amp sound a bit 'stressed' and delivers a better tone to his ears. I'm not sure that buy into the logic though. Valve amps are expensive enough to retube and fix to begin with. Unless I was mega rich I wouldn't even bother experimenting. 
 

[EBS_freak]

25 minutes ago, thodrik said:

According to Angus's techs, there is apparently some tonal benefits, as apparently Angus thinks that it makes the amp sound a bit 'stressed' and delivers a better tone to his ears. I'm not sure that buy into the logic though. Valve amps are expensive enough to retube and fix to begin with. Unless I was mega rich I wouldn't even bother experimenting. 
 

I’d just profile the overly hot biased amp and run a Kemper with some clean poweramps. I could put my feet up then and not have to worry about the nonsense of switching amps in and out.

”Yeah Angus, you’re good to go”

How can Angus tell the difference anyway? If that’s how he runs his back line, he’s borderline deaf anyway.

[thodrik]

22 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

I’d just profile the overly hot biased amp and run a Kemper with some clean poweramps. I could put my feet up then and not have to worry about the nonsense of switching amps in and out.

”Yeah Angus, you’re good to go”

How can Angus tell the difference anyway? If that’s how he runs his back line, he’s borderline deaf anyway.

That is a pretty good idea. Angus's signal is also a mix of lots of different overly hot biased amps, so to get that authentic non-authentic sound you might a need a few Kempers set up. 

Some people just prefer using real amps on the 'why have something that models a really nice vintage amp when I already own a really nice vintage amp.' I'm not sure though that I would automatically assume that Angus' hearing is completely shot. I do get the sense though that he probably last really considered the merits of his set up in about 1980. The same might be the case for his techs as well. In terms of modeling amps Angus is probably  not even aware of the first generation Sansamp pedals. 

If I was Angus's tech at the moment I would just bias the amps to factory settings in the first instance and see if he noticed the difference. I'm guessing that the ongoing repair costs would immediately be reduced by half and Angus would not really know the difference. You would then only need about half of the amps that are currently being used on tour.  After that, then I would slowly introduce a Kemper or two. After 5 years, Angus would probably be down to two Kempers and a Marshall DSL half stack mic'ed up with an SM57. 
 

[EBS_freak]

31 minutes ago, thodrik said:

That is a pretty good idea. Angus's signal is also a mix of lots of different overly hot biased amps, so to get that authentic non-authentic sound you might a need a few Kempers set up. 

Some people just prefer using real amps on the 'why have something that models a really nice vintage amp when I already own a really nice vintage amp.' I'm not sure though that I would automatically assume that Angus' hearing is completely shot. I do get the sense though that he probably last really considered the merits of his set up in about 1980. The same might be the case for his techs as well. In terms of modeling amps Angus is probably  not even aware of the first generation Sansamp pedals. 

If I was Angus's tech at the moment I would just bias the amps to factory settings in the first instance and see if he noticed the difference. I'm guessing that the ongoing repair costs would immediately be reduced by half and Angus would not really know the difference. You would then only need about half of the amps that are currently being used on tour.  After that, then I would slowly introduce a Kemper or two. After 5 years, Angus would probably be down to two Kempers and a Marshall DSL half stack mic'ed up with an SM57. 
 

I kinda get the, "I own the vintage amp" - but they tend to be unreliable as they age... and for some amps, things like the original transformers and certain other components are hard to source and replace like for like. They'd be better doing their thing in the studio without having to suffer the ordeal of having a touring life.

As for Angus' hearing... well, if I was a betting man... I would put money on him not having a clean sheet when it came to passing an audio test.

Having said that, I do recall him being really particular about using a vintage wireless due to the impact that it had on his tone. Hang on... Yes, the Schaffer wireless. And check here - https://solodallas.com/the-schaffer-replica - somebody makes a pedal to impact the tone in the same way as the wireless system.

Anyway... to the Kemper... You can do better than that. When you profile, you profile the sum of the x number of amps. That will give you one profile that models the sum of those x number of amps. The only reasons for having two Kempers would be for redundancy.

Then if he wants stage sound, it would be PA cabs housed in a Marshall cab... with a SM57 with a cable plugged into it just to keep the charade going.

 

Of course, it could be all nonsense... I mean, take Steve Winwood, somebody who has considerable hearing loss and what he has to say about his Kemper.

"Kemper has revolutionized my thinking on guitar amplification. The sounds are completely true to life, matching faultlessly the models they are profiling, and unlike other amplifiers it is not subject to mic placement or level. 
A phenomenal achievement!"

- is that a strong endorsement? Its not far from asking Stevie Wonder what he thinks of the new paintjob on his piano.

[thodrik]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

I kinda get the, "I own the vintage amp" - but they tend to be unreliable as they age... and for some amps, things like the original transformers and certain other components are hard to source and replace like for like. They'd be better doing their thing in the studio without having to suffer the ordeal of having a touring life.

As for Angus' hearing... well, if I was a betting man... I would put money on him not having a clean sheet when it came to passing an audio test.

Having said that, I do recall him being really particular about using a vintage wireless due to the impact that it had on his tone. Hang on... Yes, the Schaffer wireless. And check here - https://solodallas.com/the-schaffer-replica - somebody makes a pedal to impact the tone in the same way as the wireless system.

Anyway... to the Kemper... You can do better than that. When you profile, you profile the sum of the x number of amps. That will give you one profile that models the sum of those x number of amps. The only reasons for having two Kempers would be for redundancy.

Then if he wants stage sound, it would be PA cabs housed in a Marshall cab... with a SM57 with a cable plugged into it just to keep the charade going.

 

Of course, it could be all nonsense... I mean, take Steve Winwood, somebody who has considerable hearing loss and what he has to say about his Kemper.

"Kemper has revolutionized my thinking on guitar amplification. The sounds are completely true to life, matching faultlessly the models they are profiling, and unlike other amplifiers it is not subject to mic placement or level. 
A phenomenal achievement!"

- is that a strong endorsement? Its not far from asking Stevie Wonder what he thinks of the new paintjob on his piano.

I remember that 'pedal modelling a wireless' release. It was a totally mad idea. 

I suppose that one my favourite genre's (lo-fi psychedelic stoner/doom) is very much a guitar-pedal-valve amp genre, mostly in smaller venues when there is a higher chance of actually hearing the sounds coming from the backline, which generally consisted of a half stack/full stack and a single bass 8x10. 

At the level of AC/DC though, I think that the idea of running multiple 100 watt heads and fully loaded walls of Marshalls is basically absurd. Even being an amp lover, if I was playing stages of that size I would be probably be running in ears. 

[Bobby D]

Ok, ok, ok, ok!!!!!!!!

i think the message is clear here. Two 8x10’s is the only way forward. 

[stewblack]

24 minutes ago, Bobby D said:

Ok, ok, ok, ok!!!!!!!!

i think the message is clear here. Two 8x10’s is the only way forward. 

Yes!!