New Fender range - "Vintera"

[chris_b]

The Sting Ray is another design that won't go away. MM have introduced instruments that were intended to take the bass to another level and they didn't sell.

 

[Lozz196]

3 hours ago, Muppet said:

The newer Dimension was a killer bass. Beautiful compound radius, oiled neck, great weight and balance, 18v active electronics,  dual humbuckers.   They tried.  We didn't buy them because they weren't 'Fender enough'.   We don't actually want Fender to do anything other than what they are currently doing, it seems. 

And then we moan about them only rehashing the old faves, looks like they can’t win doesn’t it.

For me if they constantly improve Precision, Jazz etc that’s enough, an occasional special excellent but keep the old faves updated and in some competition with their rivals.

[project_c]

I like them. Especially the 70s J.

Fenders have been cloned to sh!t, so their remaining unique selling point is that their instruments are design classics, and they have musical heritage. They don’t need to reinvent anything, they’re playing with their most successful designs, because that’s what people who buy Fenders like. 

If you want technical innovation, you can always buy a Dingwall or an Ibanez or whatever. Or if you want gaudy Fender clones in ugly colours, filled to the brim with humbuckers, knobs and preamps you can just buy a Sadowsky or a Marusczyk etc. I don’t see the problem.

[Drax]

2 hours ago, hooky_lowdown said:

I think you missed the point.

Almost always  

[skankdelvar]

MIM Bass V re-issue. Just do it, Fender, alright?

[AndyTravis]

The thing is, when Gibson were going bust, everyone was saying “they need to go back to what they do best, Les Paul’s/SG’s/335’s!” And were criticised for all their “innovations” (which incidentally were poop...)

Fender and Gibson do what they do, Imagine Levi’s making tracksuit bottoms or Dr Martens making tennis shoes. It just doesn’t work that way.

Fender have a staple 5/10 models and have to work with that.

They try stuff and it doesn’t always sell - there are 100’s of models which didn’t stay long.

I sold Fenders for years as my Job, and all the weird and wonderful sat on the wall while black strats and white telecasters turned over in huge numbers.

For years their best selling Telecaster was the butterscotch 52, their second biggest selling telecaster was the left handed version. After that it was a natural finish USA with a black pickguard and the Baja Tele in blackguard blonde...etc.

Its about an “Icon” thing for players. 

Jaguars/Jazzmasters/Mustangs were sort of dead until Grunge - the artists bought them because they were reputable branded guitars but cheap.

Then in the early 2000’s the 72 Custom Tele/Thinline Tele/Tele Deluxe were in vogue because of all the hip indie bands using them for that same reason - before that they couldn’t raise an eyebrow let alone a big ticket price.

They have a legacy and they’re bound to it, damned if they do (by some) and damned if they don’t (by others).

More stringent quality control and they’d be away - but that adds cost, and that’s why a Deluxe USA Jazz is £1800 or so and a USA Sadowsky is about £4500.

Incidentally - I side by side compared a USA 2010 Deluxe, A USA sadowsky and an Alleva Coppolo (check spelling) and the Fender held its own, massively. I preferred it in sound to the other two and it felt as nice as the Sadowsky. It was just a bit heavier than the other 2. It was also about £1449 at the time.

They should open up 12 month contracts to us all and see if we could do a better job.

Anyhow, as someone said earlier - if you weren’t thinking of buying a Fender this year - these probably aren’t aimed at you...I’m off to play my yamaha 😂

Edited June 22, 2019 by AndyTravis

[Shambo]

I'd be impressed if we could just have the 'Mod Shop' configurator.

[wateroftyne]

43 minutes ago, skankdelvar said:

MIM Bass V re-issue. Just do it, Fender, alright?

The only thing that would make me think Fender have lost the plot any more than they already have: if they actively chose to reissue a bass that everyone hated and nobody bought back in the day.

[hooky_lowdown]

15 minutes ago, Shambo said:

I'd be impressed if we could just have the 'Mod Shop' configurator.

With the prices they charge you would think so!

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

15 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

The only thing that would make me think Fender have lost the plot any more than they already have: if they actively chose to reissue a bass that everyone hated and nobody bought back in the day. 

I dunno - if it was good enough for Jamerson...

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[tauzero]

22 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

I find it quite comforting, actually.

Fender just making Fenders.

Nice to see a 'normal' Mustang back on the books, too.

It's like Ford just making Fords. Model Ts.

[tauzero]

13 hours ago, Linus27 said:

I so despair at Fender and I love them, its all I play but why oh why do they not do anything different or exciting. If this was me, I would be releasing the following,

An American Vintage 51 Precision in some nice retro pastel colours

An American Vintage Stack Knob 60's Jazz

A Mexican or Japanese FSR unlined fretless Vintage 70's Precision in natural with maple board

A Mexican or Japanese FSR Vintage 70's Telecaster bass

An unlined fretless modern Precision with rosewood board.

An unlined fretless modern Jazz with rosewood board

What's different or exciting about those?

[tauzero]

I should say, I don't see anything wrong with Fender making Ps and Js. They will always be their bread and butter. But, although they do come up with occasional different models, they generally seem pretty half-hearted - either only minor variations or, when they do something radical, pig-ugly or extremely derivative. I suppose there's just not going to be a commercial reason for them to do anything but bring out the same dreary pigs with different lipstick.

[bigsmokebass]

On 20/06/2019 at 12:06, TransistorBassMan said:

"Vintage style for the modern modern era"

Everything, fender, ever 😂

[Linus27]

55 minutes ago, tauzero said:

What's different or exciting about those?

They haven't made them for ages, they churn out the same as this thread shows. When did Fender last release an unlined fretless standard Jazz or Precision let alone a fretless maple necked bass. An American stack knob Jazz or American 51 Precision as well, it's been donkeys years.

[drTStingray]

11 hours ago, chris_b said:

The Sting Ray is another design that won't go away. MM have introduced instruments that were intended to take the bass to another level and they didn't sell.

 

Musicman have brought out an updated version of it (and the SR5) which have been very successful (whilst still producing the Classic models). I've got a couple of them and they're great. However like most other companies, they are only a fraction of the production of Fender.

Youve got to wonder just how saturated the mass market Fender aims at actually is. Guitar shops are incredibly busy at weekends but these places have walls full of their guitars (less so basses). 

Presumably these mild product refreshes are designed to stimulate the market - I must admit I've bought a new bass in the past based on a new colour becoming available. The name change seems a bit extreme though .......

Edited June 22, 2019 by drTStingray

[tauzero]

27 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

They haven't made them for ages, they churn out the same as this thread shows. When did Fender last release an unlined fretless standard Jazz or Precision let alone a fretless maple necked bass. An American stack knob Jazz or American 51 Precision as well, it's been donkeys years.

Different lipsticks on the pig then.

[akabane]

While I personally find this new line dull, boring and rehashed, I'm DEFINITELY not 'classic' Fender's target customer, so, I'll just assume I'm a Jazz/Precision uber fan and were about to buy one to add to my 5 Jazzes and 7 Precisions.

So, that put aside, the only thing that really annoys me is the fact they had to make a 'new line' out of them. So, effectively, just a reason to bump the price, again.

It's the same instruments, built the same way in the same places, with now pauferro boards and a few colors. 

If I were in the market for a Fender I'd be just shaking my head whispering a disappointed "Why...?"

To me they should just name the same line year after year and that's it. "Hey, new basses! Here's a Fender Jazz Bass 2019, here's a Precision 2019 '60 Reissue in Gold, here's a Mustang 2019 Vintage '70" and so forth: just add variation to the existing line, why the hell branch out. People will still ONLY be looking online for Fender Jazz or Fender Precision basses. Oh, right. New sticker, price spike!  

 

 

...oh well. At least they're not 'COMING FOR YOU, boutique builders who use Fender or Fender-inspired designs'  (still shaking my head and laughing, Gibson) and they didn't introduce a neck through, 4-woods sandwich with a 5 parts neck 6 stringer. Still good old Fender. By the way, THAT would have been the funniest discussion to read among you people  

 

EDIT: By the way, Fender, if you ever read this, please do offer me a job in your marketing dept. I've got this idea and know how to realise it (as it's just...how can I put it, a change in procedures mostly), which I still haven't understood why it hasn't taken place in the instruments world, that will make you heaps of cash, without having to resort to these things every year. Or I'll just start making my own instruments and apply it there, be the first to market and BE A PIONEER! MWAHAHAH *evil laugh, will conquer world later*

Edited June 24, 2019 by akabane

[gjones]

On 21/06/2019 at 18:15, wateroftyne said:

The only thing that would make me think Fender have lost the plot any more than they already have: if they actively chose to reissue a bass that everyone hated and nobody bought back in the day.

They brought back the antigua paintjob for a while, about 10 years ago.

[wateroftyne]

6 minutes ago, gjones said:

They brought back the antigua paintjob for a while, about 10 years ago.

Yeah, I think that must have been a dare.

[stewblack]

Gosh. What a grumpy lot we can be. 

I quite like the pictures in the first post. They remind me a bit of the Bass Collection instrument range. 

[kyuuga]

Plenty of fair (and unfair) criticism in this topic. Figured I'd add my 2 cents as well...

I think Fender, like most iconic brands, is doomed to be a victim of its own legacy.

On one hand they've got the most successful and time-tested instruments of all time and are pretty much set for life. As long as "traditional" instruments stay in the world of music, I can never see basses like the Precision or the Jazz going away (as well as their guitar lines, obviously). 

On the other hand, with that reputation comes the fact that everyone wants to have a Precision or a Jazz and nothing else - they don't want weird Fenders, they want THE Fender bass.

You wouldn't really go to a BMW stand to buy a family car, would you? You'd go to Volvo or Volkswagen...when you think of a BMW you mainly think of a luxurious sports car - that's their thing.

HOWEVER, there are a couple of fair criticisms we can do here:

1) They keep rehashing the same production lines and only change the wording, the colors and more importantly THE PRICE.

I think the "Player Series" was a step in the right direction - lightly increase the price but also improve the features, much like what Musicman did with their Stingray Specials. But these new "Vintera" basses are just the same as the Classic ones except with different colors and most likely a price increase. People keep paying more for the same stuff we had 10 or even 20 years ago.

2) They don't innovate when they could.

Listen, I'm not saying that Fender needs to go all wild and do something really crazy because, as I said above, I think they're a victim of their own legacy. However, just do simple and small changes. Offer some little variations that will maybe captivate the player-base. Something like:

a) a P/J configuration with a reverse P pickup;
b) a Jazz Bass with a P style neck;
c) a P/P or a M/J configuration (with the M pickup being able to be coil split and call it a Jazz Bass);

Plenty of small changes that would perhaps make an interesting model sometimes. It'd still be a FENDER but it'd be something that would captivate longtime fans.

That's just my opinion anyway. I think Fender ought to stick with their traditional models but also spice them up a bit sometimes. Keep the money flow steady but try to slowly do some changes in order be fresh and relevant.

After all, isn't it a bit ironic that a company who advertises so much with young people & new music keeps relying on the same instruments that were made 70 years ago?



 

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 3, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[project_c]

8 hours ago, kyuuga said:

a) a P/J configuration with a reverse P pickup;
b) a Jazz Bass with a P style neck;
c) a P/P or a M/J configuration (with the M pickup being able to be coil split and call it a Jazz Bass);

Plenty of small changes that would perhaps make an interesting model sometimes. 

a) barely anyone likes or cares about reverse P’s, it’s niche at best.

b) maybe 1 masochistic person out of a thousand wants this.

c) every fender clone maker already does the humbucker pj, it’s been done to death. Fender did p/p in the 80s, didn’t sell well and didn’t sound that useful, it was a novelty.

If you want lots of small interesting changes, look at the Mustangs, Fender are doing exactly that with this range. The result is that half of the people who like Fenders love it, the other half thinks it’s an abomination. 

They also have a custom shop btw. The prices are a joke but they will make you whatever you want. 

Honestly, the main thing everyone moaned about with Fender pre-2012 was that they varied in quality and the general feedback from their customers was that they should focus on their classics and make them as good as they can. Given that even a sub£200 Squier is giggable these days, they’ve done ok. 

People are p!ssed about the prices - not much you can do about that, as the main customer base (boomers) dies off, USA stuff is going to keep decreasing in demand and increasing in price. Plus the value of the pound is going to keep falling endlessly as long as we have idiot voters putting idiots in charge, but that’s another conversation.

[paul_c2]

Did the prices go up in other countries too?