Guitarists are weird

[leschirons]

Here's one to get you all going about weird guitarist stories.

Some years back I depped on drums for a few mates who had a pub gig. I knew all the other band members and had been playing bass with the guitarist in a previous band. SH*T hot he was. Knowing that I'd be asked to do some BVs I took a head set radio mic with me as a boom stand and drumming doesn't really work for me.

Bearing in mind that in the previous band, we were covering everything from Larry Carlton, Steely Dan, Focus, to Toto etc, I had no worries about the guitarist. The pub filled up and three numbers in, we got a request for Red house which I would have to sing so, turned on the mic.
The guitarist asks what key?
I say A as that's where I can sing it okay.
He says, "I don't know it"
I say "It's an easy one, just jam it" (Hence, all in together with no intro)
We get to the solo and he looks at me and says "I don't know the break"
I mouth (quietly) "i-m-p-r-o-v-i-s-e

He says "But how does the break actually go?"

I shout out through 800 watts, (forgetting about the mic) IT'S A FU**ING 12 bar you WAN*ER
Pub went very quiet. We spoke about this after the gig and it turns out he can learn anything really hard, really easily, with tab or even music notation, but can't jam to a slow 12 bar in A

WEIRD, maybe that's why he's a guitarist.

Edited December 18, 2008 by leschirons

[OldGit]

ha ha that's great

I've played with a guitarist like that - a genius on stuff he knew but he really sweated on anything out of his control.
Years later I discovered his way of coping was to play through every tune in the set, lead breaks, intro's and outro's before every gig.

[timloudon]

Be glad that the guitarist (along with the drummer and singer) actually learns stuff.

I seem to remember the guitarist in my old covers band (my first band, so there are strong ties here) saying that he didn't need to learn Bloc Party's Helicopter because he'd played it so much on Guitar Hero...

I don't know what he was thinking!

But you're right, it's weird.

[Oscar South]

Eh, some people just have issues with improvising. I've known a few really good musicians who are otherwise excellent at learning and playing very difficult stuff who have had trouble with it. Maybe some people just let their skill in improvisation fall behind their ability to learn music by rote, and they feel they can't hold themselves to their otherwise high standards when put on the spot, making them feel insecure about doing it. I dunno.

[Jase]

I don't think it's that weird really, I know a guitar player who isn't fond of improvising and doesn't feel comfortable with the feel of a 12 bar or a basic blues thing, it's like they have a different opinion of guitar.

[ARGH]

Ive met a few Guitarists that cant 12 bar,Ive even taken one with me busking,to teach him,it was an education and fun watching him learn,and then I told him to solo...it was fun ("What do I do?"....'Anything'..."You Serious"..'Yep'.."But what if it sounds sh*t?"...'The moneys still landing in the Bass case,so I guess you and I dont suck so far')...

We made enough to pay our fuel and food for the day.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Jase' post='357486' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:53 AM']I don't think it's that weird really, I know a guitar player who isn't fond of improvising and doesn't feel comfortable with the feel of a 12 bar or a basic blues thing, it's like they have a different opinion of guitar.[/quote]
Yeah Like an almost 'Simple music Autism'

Phish (Ok ...Mike Gordon) said they had played SO much odd time and 'out' there improv stuff,they could even play a simple 12 bar or 4/4 without a major cockup after a few bars...so for half a Tour they would always soundcheck old Blues songs.

[Jase]

[quote name='ARGH' post='357490' date='Dec 18 2008, 01:04 AM']Yeah Like an almost 'Simple music Autism'[/quote]

[neepheid]

I can't improvise to save my life. I need to know how every song goes before I even remotely consider playing it in front of other musicians, never mind Joe Public. I also prefer to know [i]why[/i] I am playing a certain note. I'm hoping that once I build up my theory then I'll know the right things to do. Right now if someone said "this is in the key of A" I just go "err, that's nice" and not have a clue how this information helps me. I think I need lessons. Either that or sell my basses and get a triangle. Basically I can't seem to let go and just have fun with the bass without fear of what the results will be.

I've always been the sort of person who prefers to make his mistakes in private.

[Golchen]

Hah! I'm the opposite on guitar, I can't learn anything to save my life but I can do horrible pointless noodling until the cows come home in any key you like.

(Actually, that's a lie, I did learn Pink Floyd's Money many years ago and can still fumble through it, but that's it so far!)

[ARGH]

[quote name='neepheid' post='357580' date='Dec 18 2008, 09:34 AM']I can't improvise to save my life. I need to know how every song goes before I even remotely consider playing it in front of other musicians, never mind Joe Public. I also prefer to know [i]why[/i] I am playing a certain note. I'm hoping that once I build up my theory then I'll know the right things to do. Right now if someone said "this is in the key of A" I just go "err, that's nice" and not have a clue how this information helps me. I think I need lessons. Either that or sell my basses and get a triangle. Basically I can't seem to let go and just have fun with the bass without fear of what the results will be.

I've always been the sort of person who prefers to make his mistakes in private.[/quote]
This is where a bit of ear training comes in handy,also in situ's like that,ask the keys player,if there is one.

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='leschirons' post='357455' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:00 AM']Here's one to get you all going about weird guitarist stories.

Some years back I depped on drums for a few mates who had a pub gig. I knew all the other band members and had been playing bass with the guitarist in a previous band. SH*T hot he was. Knowing that I'd be asked to do some BVs I took a head set radio mic with me as a boom stand and drumming doesn't really work for me.

Bearing in mind that in the previous band, we were covering everything from Larry Carlton, Steely Dan, Focus, to Toto etc, I had no worries about the guitarist. The pub filled up and three numbers in, we got a request for Red house which I would have to sing so, turned on the mic.
The guitarist asks what key?
I say A as that's where I can sing it okay.
He says, "I don't know it"
I say "It's an easy one, just jam it" (Hence, all in together with no intro)
We get to the solo and he looks at me and says "I don't know the break"
I mouth (quietly) "i-m-p-r-o-v-i-s-e

He says "But how does the break actually go?"

I shout out through 800 watts, (forgetting about the mic) IT'S A FU**ING 12 bar you WAN*ER
Pub went very quiet. We spoke about this after the gig and it turns out he can learn anything really hard, really easily, with tab or even music notation, but can't jam to a slow 12 bar in A[/quote]

That sounds like my personal nightmare. I'd never speak to you again.

[OldGit]

[quote name='neepheid' post='357580' date='Dec 18 2008, 09:34 AM']Either that or sell my basses and get a triangle.[/quote]

The much maligned triangle is rather like a bass in that the general public think its an easy instrument to play, and at some levels it can be, but to play it well takes a huge amount of skill.


Anyway I have an early 60's Fender Imprecision triangle for sale or exchange. It's got some relicing and the beater and string have been replaced by Gotoh upgrades. Oh and teh bell part was replaced in the 90's with a JV Squier part but te label stiill says Fender .. PM me if you are interested ...

[stingrayfan]

I've got a mate who's a good little guitarist but until recently didn't actually know the notes on the fretboard - literally learned stuff by numbers. Used to get everything pretty much spot on - unless he started off on the wrong fret and didn't know how to get out being a semitone sharp.

[odub]

My girlfriend studied Piano and various wind instruments to a very high level, all the grades done I think. She can play owlt site reading first time even having not sat down at a piano in months. But she’s refuses to improvise in the slightest.

[katana_manatee]

The problem is there are a lot of people who learn to play physically but don't understand what they do.

They can mechanically play very well but they haven't learned any theory or at least scales to be able to improvise.

It is a very common thing, I was the same for a long time, I could play decently enough and write bass lines by using my ear but I couldn't just knock out an improvised solo unless the song was in Gmajor or one of its modes.

Some people just never get round to the theory aspect, become great technically but then get stuck. I am still surprised that the guy couldn't just knock out a little pentatonic solo though even if it was just in one position. o_O

Edited December 18, 2008 by katana_manatee

[OldGit]

[quote name='odub' post='357673' date='Dec 18 2008, 11:08 AM']My girlfriend studied Piano and various wind instruments to a very high level, all the grades done I think. She can play owlt site reading first time even having not sat down at a piano in months. But she’s refuses to improvise in the slightest.[/quote]


Yup Mrs OldGit's like a rusty version of that on Piano and flute ...
Music no problem, freestyle? Nah, she can't even do an arpeggio in C maj by ear

[barneyg42]

[quote name='leschirons' post='357455' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:00 AM']Here's one to get you all going about weird guitarist stories.

Some years back I depped on drums for a few mates who had a pub gig. I knew all the other band members and had been playing bass with the guitarist in a previous band. SH*T hot he was. Knowing that I'd be asked to do some BVs I took a head set radio mic with me as a boom stand and drumming doesn't really work for me.

Bearing in mind that in the previous band, we were covering everything from Larry Carlton, Steely Dan, Focus, to Toto etc, I had no worries about the guitarist. The pub filled up and three numbers in, we got a request for Red house which I would have to sing so, turned on the mic.
The guitarist asks what key?
I say A as that's where I can sing it okay.
He says, "I don't know it"
I say "It's an easy one, just jam it" (Hence, all in together with no intro)
We get to the solo and he looks at me and says "I don't know the break"
I mouth (quietly) "i-m-p-r-o-v-i-s-e

He says "But how does the break actually go?"

I shout out through 800 watts, (forgetting about the mic) IT'S A FU**ING 12 bar you WAN*ER
Pub went very quiet. We spoke about this after the gig and it turns out he can learn anything really hard, really easily, with tab or even music notation, but can't jam to a slow 12 bar in A

WEIRD, maybe that's why he's a guitarist.[/quote]

Sorry, I find the concept of a guitarist asking the drummer what key it's in makes me PMSL!!!

[BassMunkee]

[quote]arpeggio in C maj[/quote]
Meh, neither can I.

[Rich]

[quote name='OldGit' post='357653' date='Dec 18 2008, 10:53 AM']The much maligned triangle is rather like a bass in that the general public think its an easy instrument to play, and at some levels it can be, but to play it well takes a huge amount of skill.


Anyway I have an early 60's Fender Imprecision triangle for sale or exchange. It's got some relicing and the beater and string have been replaced by Gotoh upgrades. Oh and teh bell part was replaced in the 90's with a JV Squier part but te label stiill says Fender .. PM me if you are interested ...[/quote]
Fancy a trade for my Wal Mach I triangle? Dangles from a piece of finest plaited Venezuelan goat string, with the bell inlaid with Malaysian gnatwood and MOP detailing. PM me if you're interested. Perhaps we can work your Status Graphite cowbell into the deal too?

[OldGit]

[quote name='Rich' post='358537' date='Dec 19 2008, 08:32 AM']Fancy a trade for my Wal Mach I triangle? Dangles from a piece of finest plaited Venezuelan goat string, with the bell inlaid with Malaysian gnatwood and MOP detailing. PM me if you're interested. Perhaps we can work your Status Graphite cowbell into the deal too?[/quote]

Nah I'm never parting with that cowbell. Rob Green wove the graphite by hand and the Turin Shroud effect is just accidental. Mind you whacking the image of Lady Thatcher's face on the other side if deeply satisfying.
Jeeeeeze Rich, I was hoping to keep the cowbell quiet, now everyone will be getting one...

[zigmondo]

Hmm..oddish, but I remember a series of gigs once in which there were 3 guitarists: me, a jazz-chordal chap and a classically-trained one. We were all jawdropped by both what the others could do but also by the "glaringly simple" things they could not: "whaddya mean "improvise?", or, "sorry, I can't play; my music has fallen off the stand", or, "how do you know what notes to play when you've never heard this before?" As a guitarist, though, it doesn't half peeve me when other guitarists(not me of course) play as if they're still in the bedroom rather than with other breathing humans.
What I do definitely find weird is that though I'm primarily a guitarist, I find strange things happening since developing as a bassist: I find myself saying quasi-apologetic stuff like, "well I usually play guitar...you know, looks like a bass but smaller"...heck, I'm even growing that unruffled smugness and smirk, along with that feeling that only comes with actually knowing that size on some all-pervasive level, does make a distinct difference...to everything everywhere. I suppose even my being able to use the word "bassist" in self-reference is not actually indicative of the descent into mossy old-age that I'd always thought. Even odder, there are some circles now in which folks don't even know I play,er, a small 6-string, referring to me as the "bass guitarist". And perhaps even odder than that, I'm losing that guilty look when I'm discovered to be playing the 5 thick- stringed thing... and often don't come out with, "but it's not my first instrument, really." Funny old life!

[EssentialTension]

I've come across people who couldn't improvise and needed everything written out.

However, I've also come across people who, when you say to them 'what scale are you using there?' or 'are you playing a diminished on the F?' or, 'I think you are going to the IV too early', or even 'here's a chord chart for this song' have not got the slightest idea what I am talking about.

Both as bad as one another.

Edited December 19, 2008 by EssentialTension

[Golchen]

LOL! Love the cowbell video!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='358929' date='Dec 19 2008, 04:20 PM']However, I've also come across people who, when you say to them 'what scale are you using there?' or 'are you playing a diminished on the F?' or, 'I think you are going to the IV too early', or even 'here's a chord chart for this song' have not got the slightest idea what I am talking about.[/quote]

That would be me then...well, I might recognise a chord chart.

As long as it's in the key of A.