Very low altered tunings.

[ambient]

I’m exploring the use of altered tunings. My current favourite is Bb, F, Bb, F, Bb. I’ve had to slacken off the truss-rod quite a bit to accommodate this. It shouldn’t cause any problems should it?

Maybe it’d be better to switch to piccolo strings?

[BigRedX]

This is an alternative to standard 5-string tuning? 

[ambient]

6 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

This is an alternative to standard 5-string tuning? 

Yes.

[thodrik]

26 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’m exploring the use of altered tunings. My current favourite is Bb, F, Bb, F, Bb. I’ve had to slacken off the truss-rod quite a bit to accommodate this. It shouldn’t cause any problems should it?

Maybe it’d be better to switch to piccolo strings?

If you set a bass up so that it is optimally set up for a specific tuning, then you are not going to cause any problems to the truss rod or the bass in general. You are not damaging the bass. You just need to be aware that you need to give the bass a proper set up before you back to standard tuning. For this reason it is worth thinking ''do I really need to use this tuning'?' before committing to a tuning. 

That tuning looks pretty strange though (Bb to F is a fifth, then F to Bb is a fourth, I think...). This would befuddle me in terms of the fingering (as a guitarist I don't like DADGAD tunings). I'm guessing that this would be cool if you need to use a lot of ringing open strings for a kind of 'drone effect'.

If I needed a low Bb and I was committing to tuning a bass relying on a 'drop Bb' open notes, I would probably tune a bass Bb, F, Bb, Eb, Ab.  This is really just tuning a light set of five strings up a semi tone but tuning the low B string to the drop D equivalent. By using light gauge five strings tuned up a semi tone, the tension isn't going to be much more than a medium set of string tuned B-G in standard.

[BigRedX]

The whole point of the truss rod is the counter-act the pull on the neck created by the strings. If you change the tuning you change the amount of pull therefore you will probably also have to change the tension of the truss rod.

However your alternative tuning appears to be mostly higher than standard 5-string tuning (unless your low Bb is an octave and a semitone below B rather than just a semitone) and therefore unless you have also changed your string gauges for a lighter than normal set I would have expected you to have had to tighten the truss rod rather than loosen it.

Piccolo strings are designed to be tuned up an octave from standard bass tunings, so unless you are after a very loose feel to your strings they won't be necessary. If you want to keep the feel of your strings the same as if it was standard 5-string tuning check out the D'Addario website for string gauges and their tensions.

[ambient]

25 minutes ago, thodrik said:

If you set a bass up so that it is optimally set up for a specific tuning, then you are not going to cause any problems to the truss rod or the bass in general. You are not damaging the bass. You just need to be aware that you need to give the bass a proper set up before you back to standard tuning. For this reason it is worth thinking ''do I really need to use this tuning'?' before committing to a tuning. 

That tuning looks pretty strange though (Bb to F is a fifth, then F to Bb is a fourth, I think...). This would befuddle me in terms of the fingering (as a guitarist I don't like DADGAD tunings). I'm guessing that this would be cool if you need to use a lot of ringing open strings for a kind of 'drone effect'.

If I needed a low Bb and I was committing to tuning a bass relying on a 'drop Bb' open notes, I would probably tune a bass Bb, F, Bb, Eb, Ab.  This is really just tuning a light set of five strings up a semi tone but tuning the low B string to the drop D equivalent. By using light gauge five strings tuned up a semi tone, the tension isn't going to be much more than a medium set of string tuned B-G in standard.

It won’t be a regular tuning, just one of a few that I’m using, I was concerned because I’ve had to slacken off the truss rod quite a lot to be able to use it. I play very lightly, so don’t really have any flapping or buzz unless I want it. Another tuning I’m experimenting with is D, G, B, D, A. I usually use E to C tuning.

[ambient]

2 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

The whole point of the truss rod is the counter-act the pull on the neck created by the strings. If you change the tuning you change the amount of pull therefore you will probably also have to change the tension of the truss rod.

However your alternative tuning appears to be mostly higher than standard 5-string tuning (unless your low Bb is an octave and a semitone below B rather than just a semitone) and therefore unless you have also changed your string gauges for a lighter than normal set I would have expected you to have had to tighten the truss rod rather than loosen it.

Piccolo strings are designed to be tuned up an octave from standard bass tunings, so unless you are after a very loose feel to your strings they won't be necessary. If you want to keep the feel of your strings the same as if it was standard 5-string tuning check out the D'Addario website for string gauges and their tensions.

I’ve tuned lower. I was concerned about breaking the strings by tuning higher, plus I wanted to get some floppiness. 

[paul_c2]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

I My current favourite is Bb, F, Bb, F, Bb.

 

8 minutes ago, ambient said:

Another tuning I’m experimenting with is D, G, B, D, A. I usually use E to C tuning.

Just confirm, what do you think is "standard" 5 string bass tuning, and which direction are you going to achieve Bb F Bb F Bb?

[ambient]

2 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

 

Just confirm, what do you think is "standard" 5 string bass tuning, and which direction are you going to achieve Bb F Bb F Bb?

My standard tuning is E to C. I’ve tuned down.

[paul_c2]

So you're achieving a Bb lower than E with.................which gauge string?

 

ETA, I would have considered BEADG as "standard" 5 string tuning these days, although I know a few 5 strings are set up (and were set up at the factory) as EADGC. Its probably led to some of the confusion.

Edited June 24, 2019 by paul_c2

[BigRedX]

If you're using an E-C set then you will have to slacken off the truss rod for Bb F Bb F Bb.

IME you have to tune more than 3 semitones up and play fairly hard in order to be concerned about breaking strings. OtOH I'm quite picky about my string tensions, so if I was going to use an alternative tuning once I'd found one I liked I'd look at changing the string gauges to get the tensions back in line with my preferred tensions for a standard set.

I'm the person who has a separate guitar for drop D tuning with a 56 gauge lowest string for D because I find my normal 52 E doesn't feel right tuned down a tone.

[ambient]

54 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

So you're achieving a Bb lower than E with.................which gauge string?

 

ETA, I would have considered BEADG as "standard" 5 string tuning these days, although I know a few 5 strings are set up (and were set up at the factory) as EADGC. Its probably led to some of the confusion.

The bass was designed by the builder I think for E to C tuning. He’s very much into the Garrison/Fodera thing.

 

[ambient]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

If you're using an E-C set then you will have to slacken off the truss rod for Bb F Bb F Bb.

IME you have to tune more than 3 semitones up and play fairly hard in order to be concerned about breaking strings. OtOH I'm quite picky about my string tensions, so if I was going to use an alternative tuning once I'd found one I liked I'd look at changing the string gauges to get the tensions back in line with my preferred tensions for a standard set.

I'm the person who has a separate guitar for drop D tuning with a 56 gauge lowest string for D because I find my normal 52 E doesn't feel right tuned down a tone.

Three semitones up, that's really useful to know, thanks. I think the strings are .105, .085, .065, .045 and a .028 high C.

Edited June 24, 2019 by ambient

[ambient]

I’m looking for a couple of Hipshot's D-tuner extenders too.

[BigRedX]

24 minutes ago, ambient said:

I’m looking for a couple of Hipshot's D-tuner extenders too.

See my previous post about string tensions. Check that you're happy with the changes in tension that come with the different tunings you want to use. Personally I can't get on with strings at different tensions to the ones I am used to.

[ambient]

This is the kind of thing I’m doing. Excuse the playing, I’d only been using the new tuning for twenty minutes of so here, I’m also suffering from something called Sun poisoning; feeling incredibly ill. I’d never heard of it before. I spent 3 hours last night in A&E.

 

[NikNik]

Sunstroke? Had it, and not nice feeling at all.

[ambient]

36 minutes ago, NikNik said:

Sunstroke? Had it, and not nice feeling at all.

This is sun poisoning, or Photodermatitis. I’d never ever heard of it. My head was massively swollen for a couple of days, now I look like a hamster who’s happened upon a rather tasty stash of something edible that he’s keeping for later. It’s not pleasant at all.

[itu]

Friend of mine has this and got some lotion to help the symptoms. Later on he found out that he was allergic to some ingredient of the lotion... so beware.

By the way, you might try that newer Ibanez Ashula 7-string to play with both fretted and fretless in one neck. Lots of tuning possibilities included!

[NikNik]

3 minutes ago, itu said:

Friend of mine has this and got some lotion to help the symptoms. Later on he found out that he was allergic to some ingredient of the lotion... so beware.

By the way, you might try that newer Ibanez Ashula 7-string to play with both fretted and fretless in one neck. Lots of tuning possibilities included!

I have that beast. Fretless is tuned DAD (flatwound) and the fretted DADG.

[ambient]

4 hours ago, itu said:

Friend of mine has this and got some lotion to help the symptoms. Later on he found out that he was allergic to some ingredient of the lotion... so beware.

By the way, you might try that newer Ibanez Ashula 7-string to play with both fretted and fretless in one neck. Lots of tuning possibilities included!

Yeah I read that sometimes the sun can react to ingredients in cosmetics; moisturiser and body spray etc. I do use moisturiser because I have dry skin.

That Ibanez bass does look really interesting. What I’d love to get is a Hyperbass.  

[itu]

1 hour ago, ambient said:

What I’d love to get is a Hyperbass.  

...that cost an arm and a leg and a kidney and a liver and... with detuners the price is over 10 k$.

A used Ashula has a price tag that is less than 10 % of the Hyperbass.

http://www.zonguitars.com/zonguitars/bassbuilder/index_hyp.htm

https://reverb.com/marketplace?query=ibanez ashula

If you are really lucky, you may find a fretless tune Bass Maniac with 3 octave fretboard. But it is really rare! I think that Ibanez has recently had a fretless with over 2 octave fretboard in their catalogue.

[bartelby]

19 minutes ago, itu said:

 

If you are really lucky, you may find a fretless tune Bass Maniac with 3 octave fretboard. But it is really rare! I think that Ibanez has recently had a fretless with over 2 octave fretboard in their catalogue.

The Portamento basses has 30 “fret” boards

[Davo-London]

I must be simple, but moving away from 4ths will "do my head in".  All my fluidity will go out of the window.

Why choose a tuning with a 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th? are you playing chords or a lot of double stops with open strings?

Peace

Davo

[ambient]

33 minutes ago, Davo-London said:

I must be simple, but moving away from 4ths will "do my head in".  All my fluidity will go out of the window.

Why choose a tuning with a 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th? are you playing chords or a lot of double stops with open strings?

Peace

Davo

I use a lot of chords yes, also harmonics. I only play solo stuff though. It doesn’t take too long to get familiar tbh, it forces you to listen a lot deeper to what you’re playing. Yesterday I switched back to D, G, B, D, A, which is one I love.

This is just an improvisation in D, G, B, D, A: