Cheapest Way to Try MM

[thegummy]

I want to see if I like the MM Stingray sound enough to want to add it to the arsenal.

I've never found short sessions in shops useful for this, it's only after some time at home playing properly that I get a good taste.

What is the cheapest bass that would allow me to experience the tone style? I don't expect it to sound just like a full on MM but just in the same style like a cheap Jazz clone would give.

Would the cheapest Sterling model be there? What about 3rd party? If it's passive would it give me an idea of a MM set flat?

I have thought it could be good to buy a used one and can sell it on for minimal loss if I wanted to but, to be honest, I don't get how folk manage to find second hand stuff on here; any time I've had a look at that forum, when I eventually find what I'm looking for it's never anywhere near where I live.

[BreadBin]

I picked up a proper USA SUB on Gumtree, for a lot less than they normally go for. I normally set my search radius to the maximum distance I am prepared to travel so if they are too far I don't see them.

They're apparently the nearest thing to an actual Stingray, maybe not the lightest though.

[MattM]

Would concur with the USA Sub option, as this has the same 2EQ active preamp as the standard 2EQ ‘Ray.   IM (and many others) HO, 2EQ is the way to go, albeit 3EQ ‘Rays do have their fans also,

Alternatively, post up your location and see if a friendly Basschatter will lend your their ‘Ray for a bit?

Edited June 25, 2019 by MattM

[thegummy]

Sorry I think I've missed some key info.

If I do decide I want to add it, I couldn't actually afford one of the full fat 2 grand plus models, it would be the ones around 800 new I'd be looking at.

So if even those don't really give "the MM sound" then it's back to the drawing board (or probably just giving up on the idea).

Gumtree is good cause it has the location search (though I rarely seem to find much anyway) but I never get how to use forums since there's no way to search by location and they usually don't have the location in the title, only when clicking in to the thread. Any tips on that?

Just another quick question re: the 2 vs 3 band EQ variations - do they sound the same when flat?

Appreciate the replies so far

P.S. I'm in the Glasgow area but I don't think I could accept an offer so generous even if someone was willing to lend me one!

[Mudpup]

If you have an £800 budget just go direct to getting a used American Stingray from the classifieds on here. It may be a bit scruffy but they're tough basses and it should be perfectly usable. If you get a new Sterling for £800 you'll always be wondering if its the same as a 'real' Stingray. Which it isn't..... Its close but not the same. If you buy at the right price used you can always sell it on for about the same price if you don't bond with it. But you'll have scratched your itch. 

Re the 2 band /3 band sound - they are quite different. There isn't actually a flat setting on the 2 band as it's a boost only preamp but the 3 band is centre detented. And that isn't necessarily a flat response. The 2 band generally has a warmer bootier sound in my experience. 

[uk_lefty]

Look for second hand OLP stingrays? Obviously not the real USA Stingray but should go some way towards the feel and tonal style. The cheapest Ernie Ball do are around the £350 mark new so again, not the real thing but it should be as close as you can get if budget restricts.

[ezbass]

A Sterling Ray4 will get you right into the proper sound for just £340 and if you buy one and have it delivered, you could try it out at home for up to 7 days and then return it if it didn’t suit you under distance trading rules. https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/150915289490008--music-man-sterling-ray-4-mint-green

[thegummy]

8 minutes ago, ezbass said:

A Sterling Ray4 will get you right into the proper sound for just £340 and if you buy one and have it delivered, you could try it out at home for up to 7 days and then return it if it didn’t suit you under distance trading rules. https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/150915289490008--music-man-sterling-ray-4-mint-green

I have always loved the look of that one but wasn't sure if it got "the sound".

I know that P's and J's at that price very much do get the respective sounds but for some reason I wasn't sure if Stingrays were different in that regard.

[Machines]

Sterling SUBs are as close as you will need to establish whether you like the Stingray sound. 

[ezbass]

Just now, thegummy said:

I have always loved the look of that one but wasn't sure if it got "the sound".

I know that P's and J's at that price very much do get the respective sounds but for some reason I wasn't sure if Stingrays were different in that regard.

I owned one of the early releases of the Ray4 alongside a US SUB and full fat US Stingray 4 and 5 strings. It more than held its own in terms of sounding like an Stingray. Where I felt it fell a little short (and I mean just a little) was that the pre-amp was a bit brittle sounding to my ears, although easily fixed with amp eq. The set up on mine wasn’t brilliant on receipt either (a raised fret) and it was quite heavy (even for an MM) but perfectly balanced. It would definitely give you the sound you’re wanting to try.

[pineweasel]

3 hours ago, Mudpup said:

Re the 2 band /3 band sound - they are quite different. There isn't actually a flat setting on the 2 band as it's a boost only preamp 

This is one of those persistent myths, but the 2 band EQ has always been boost and cut, as detailed in this 1978 manual:

http://www.musicmanbass.global/1978-hangtag-manual/

[Twigman]

There's a lot more to the MM experience than just the tone.

The neck finish on a USA MM is VERY different from the SUBs and thus the feel is VERY different.

I love the oiled neck of my Sterling - I can't play sticky painted or lacquered necks anymore.

[kyuuga]

1 hour ago, Twigman said:

There's a lot more to the MM experience than just the tone.

The neck finish on a USA MM is VERY different from the SUBs and thus the feel is VERY different.

I love the oiled neck of my Sterling - I can't play sticky painted or lacquered necks anymore.

This. To me the best thing about the Stingray is the neck. It's just the best neck out there in my hands.

Obviously the tone is massive and, despite what people say, it's a very versatile instrument with the active EQ. But that neck man...

[paul_c2]

If you can afford £800, then the thing to do would be to buy one online, then if you didn't like it you can send it back under the distance selling regulations.

[BassApprentice]

If you're in Glasgow I'm sure GuitarGuitar have one of each of the ranges of MM. Stick your head in and play them, they don't seem to mind how long you're there for. Or buy and return as others have said. 

[thegummy]

13 minutes ago, BassApprentice said:

If you're in Glasgow I'm sure GuitarGuitar have one of each of the ranges of MM. Stick your head in and play them, they don't seem to mind how long you're there for. Or buy and return as others have said. 

See even if I sat there for say an hour (which would surely be quite excessive) I really don't feel I could get a good idea even in that time. I'd need a few days of decent sessions to properly get an idea, not to mention in the shop I wouldn't be able to see how it sounded in the mix.

Re: the Distance Selling Regulations return - it's a bit of a controversial one. I know that legally they'd have to refund me but I have heard business owners say that they hate being forced to do that and I completely understand. I don't know if I could, in good conscience, cause them to loose money by having to sell it as B-stock purely because I didn't personally take to the sound.

That's not to say I'm not grateful for the suggestions though.

Very glad to hear that the lowest priced range Sterlings still get in the ball park of "the sound". That was an outcome I was hoping for.

[gazhowe]

18 minutes ago, thegummy said:

Re: the Distance Selling Regulations return - it's a bit of a controversial one. I know that legally they'd have to refund me but I have heard business owners say that they hate being forced to do that and I completely understand. I don't know if I could, in good conscience, cause them to loose money by having to sell it as B-stock purely because I didn't personally take to the sound.

Check out the money back guarantee offered by Thomann who have great customer service and are happy for you to try things out and return with no questions asked.  You would obviously need to be careful to ensure that the item is returned in pristine condition but it's well worth considering IMHO.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/helpdesk_moneyback.html

[thegummy]

2 minutes ago, gazhowe said:

Check out the money back guarantee offered by Thomann who have great customer service and are happy for you to try things out and return with no questions asked.  You would obviously need to be careful to ensure that the item is returned in pristine condition but it's well worth considering IMHO.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/helpdesk_moneyback.html

That does look primising, the fact they double the time they're legally required to let you return it confirms they're not just being forced to follow the law and are happy to do it. I did wonder if maybe the bigger companies like Thomann and possibly GuitarGuitar would be fine with the returns since they possibly deal with such high numbers that they're not hurt by losses.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Will have to look at how much it costs to send a bass to Germany but I'd expect it's reasonable and worth it.

Happy to spend a certain amount to try it, my first thought was to look in to possibly hiring one for a week but the prices I found for instrument hire were laughable.

Cheers!

[songofthewind]

A fellow Scot here, with a Sterling Sub Ray 4 in my arsenal. (No cheap shots, please, about tight Scotsmen, or I will hunt you down like a dog.)

Like the OP, I wanted to test the MM waters, but I find the wide nut on EBMM basses to be too wide for my delicate little paws,  being a Jazz Bass player by temperament.

The Sub Ray 4 I nabbed may be cheap, but it really packs a punch, and sounds close enough to the real thing to me to be well worth considering, to get a sense of these things, which are very different to the Jazz.

I got mine for 200 quid, and there are plenty around, so give one a whirl, I say.

I will now duck into my previously prepared bunker, so as to avoid the inevitable incoming from those rightfully enraged by my maundering..

Carry on.

[40hz]

I've owned a Sterling Ray 34. USA Stingray 3-band and still own a USA SUB.

Honestly, there was minimal difference in sound between them . The 3 band USA and Ray 34 were slightly more hi-fi/sparkly/brittle but certainly nothing that couldn't be eq'd out or in. The 2 band USA SUB has a bit more of a fatter, punchier sound that gets my vote!

Anyone of of these will get you the sound you're after and then some. 😀

Edited June 25, 2019 by 40hz

[Tom 24]

Went to Guitar Guitar Glasgow last week intending to buy a sub 4...
Came home with a Sterling Ray 34..
Done two full on practice nights, still in tune.

Personally i found a significant difference in tone and of course fit, finish and feel enough to buy the more expensive one.  

[Linus27]

What's the difference between the Sub Ray 4 and the Ray 4? Is the Sub an old model that's been replaced by the Ray 4?

[Jack]

As mentioned, lots of cheaper basses get very close to the sound but not the feel. 'Real' Rays feel somehow solid. Confident.

 

Keep an eye out for one on here, there's nothing spoiling so wait for a good deal. I sold my black one for not much over your £800 and it was pristine. My red one would be way under your budget if I listed it here.

 

If you're ever in Newcastle...

[thegummy]

23 minutes ago, Linus27 said:

What's the difference between the Sub Ray 4 and the Ray 4? Is the Sub an old model that's been replaced by the Ray 4?

I can answer that since I've been looking in to them - you're correct.

I think the only difference is the headstock has the sterling logo instead of a sub one which is a bonus imo.

[kyuuga]

The SBMM's are a good way to try out the Stingray sound but having owned a Ray34 I can say that the MM has another "sound" to it. Even though the Ray34 does a good impression it lacks that midrange that the Stingrays are known for. And the MM has plenty of it.

If you have a Ray34 and get replacement electronics (like a John East preamp) that'll get you to "the tone" obviously but if you're gonna do that you might as well get an used Stingray. Just my 2 cents.

Also, the hardware on the Ray34 feels a lot cheaper than the Musicman's...especially the knobs and the tuners - even though the Ray34 is amazing at staying in tune, the tuners are just a bit too big.