how can i tell if...

[Ant]

a cable is instrument or speaker cable?

i had two very long speaker cables thet were identical, i seem to have lost one and it's been replaced with another cable of the same length, with the same jack end things but doesnt say speaker cable on it like the other one, and im sure it used to; so i must have had a mix up at a gig.


any way i can check what it is? i cant afford to just go get another speaker cable and i need two to gig.

[crez5150]

If you look inside the Jack, Speaker will usually have two cores and instrument three (Tip, Ring and Sleeve)

Edited December 18, 2008 by crez5150

[obbm]

If you can, unscrew the cover of the jack plug, inspect end of the cable.

If there are two separate insulated conductors (red, black, blue, blown) then it's a speaker cable.

If the cable has a single centre conductor surrounded by a woven copper mesh then its an instrument cable.

[Toasted]

Then, you should look at all the cables you use and have OBBM make you new ones. You'll sound better and they'll last longer, they'll also be cheaper than any other decent cable you can buy.

[Tinman]

That's odd, I thought I'd already answered this in your other thread. Oh well

[bremen]

[quote name='crez5150' post='357595' date='Dec 18 2008, 09:56 AM']If you look inside the Jack, Speaker will usually have two cores and instrument three (Tip, Ring and Sleeve)
[/quote]

Shurely shome mishtake?

Stereo instrument cables are pretty rare; most active basses (and effects pedals) won't even work if you don't plug a mono jack into them.

[crez5150]

[quote name='bremen' post='357796' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:23 PM']Shurely shome mishtake?

Stereo instrument cables are pretty rare; most active basses (and effects pedals) won't even work if you don't plug a mono jack into them.[/quote]


I don't understand your point?

[bremen]

[quote name='crez5150' post='357797' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:24 PM']I don't understand your point?[/quote]

'If you look inside the Jack, instrument three [cores](Tip, Ring and Sleeve)'

This is a stereo jack, and won't work with most active basses and effects pedals, as they depend on the sleeve of the plug shorting contacts in the socket to switch power on.

[obbm]

[quote name='crez5150' post='357797' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:24 PM']I don't understand your point?[/quote]

Your description is of a jack to jack balanced audio cable, not an instrument cable.

Most active instruments use the ring connection in the socket to ground the battery negative and activate the pre-amp. A ring/tip/sleeve jack won't do that. It has to be a mono jack.

Edited December 18, 2008 by obbm

[crez5150]

Ah I see..... your right in that respect but depending how it's connected. Normally +1 and ground are connected and +2 is your hot as it were. What I should have stated a bit clearer was generally two core is speaker cable and three core instrument/signal/balanced cable

[obbm]

[quote name='crez5150' post='357810' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:32 PM']Ah I see..... your right in that respect but depending how it's connected. Normally +1 and ground are connected and +2 is your hot as it were. What I should have stated a bit clearer was generally two core is speaker cable and three core instrument/signal/balanced cable[/quote]

Sorry to disagree but the majority of instrument cable is co-axial. Genuine instrument cable in has a lower capacitance than screened pair.

Screened pair is more suited for balanced circuits such as mic and line level connections. Even then there are many different specs of screened pair.

[bremen]

[quote name='obbm' post='357822' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:41 PM']Sorry to disagree but the majority of instrument cable is co-axial. Genuine instrument cable in has a lower capacitance than screened pair.[/quote]

good point, crappy high capacitance cable has a drastic effect on the sound.

[crez5150]

[quote name='obbm' post='357822' date='Dec 18 2008, 12:41 PM']Sorry to disagree but the majority of instrument cable is co-axial. Genuine instrument cable in has a lower capacitance than screened pair.

Screened pair is more suited for balanced circuits such as mic and line level connections. Even then there are many different specs of screened pair.[/quote]

What I meant.... didn't come out that way though did it....

[JakeBrownBass]

off topic/

If you use a stereo jack cable with and EBS head and active bass you can take the battery out

[obbm]

[quote name='jake_tenfloors' post='358930' date='Dec 19 2008, 04:20 PM']off topic/

If you use a stereo jack cable with and EBS head and active bass you can take the battery out [/quote]

Neat idea but do you mean a stereo cable or a balanced cable? They are different.

Also it must be dependant on how the bass is wired. If the bass uses the ring of the jack to connect the negative of the battery to ground, removing the battery would leave no connection to the positive side of the pre-amp. Do you have to fit something in place of the battery?

Better still have you got a circuit diagram?

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='obbm' post='358938' date='Dec 19 2008, 04:29 PM']Neat idea but do you mean a stereo cable or a balanced cable? They are different.

Also it must be dependant on how the bass is wired. If the bass uses the ring of the jack to connect the negative of the battery to ground, removing the battery would leave no connection to the positive side of the pre-amp. Do you have to fit something in place of the battery?

Better still have you got a circuit diagram?[/quote]

He is referring to the EBS phantom power that means that you can power an EBS pedal from the amp head if you use a stereo instrument cable.

You have to jumper the battery connector in the pedal... as you would a bass.

[bremen]

[quote name='obbm' post='358938' date='Dec 19 2008, 04:29 PM']Neat idea but do you mean a stereo cable or a balanced cable? They are different.

Also it must be dependant on how the bass is wired. If the bass uses the ring of the jack to connect the negative of the battery to ground, removing the battery would leave no connection to the positive side of the pre-amp. Do you have to fit something in place of the battery?

Better still have you got a circuit diagram?[/quote]

Connect a diode across the battery (anode to batt -ve).

You can then use a mono jack for battery power or stereo cable (or balanced, so long as it's RTS jacks at each end) for phantom.

[escholl]

[quote name='Toasted' post='357634' date='Dec 18 2008, 10:31 AM']Then, you should look at all the cables you use and have OBBM make you new ones. You'll sound better and they'll last longer, they'll also be cheaper than any other decent cable you can buy.[/quote]

so, he can't afford to buy one new cable, and your solution is that he buys all new cables?

[quote name='obbm' post='358938' date='Dec 19 2008, 04:29 PM']Neat idea but do you mean a stereo cable or a balanced cable? They are different.[/quote]

In what way? TRS is TRS, it's all wired the same way...unless I'm missing something?

[bremen]

[quote name='escholl' post='359447' date='Dec 20 2008, 11:13 AM']In what way? TRS is TRS, it's all wired the same way...unless I'm missing something?[/quote]

Balanced cable is usually screened with foil or braid and has a twisted pair of inner cables. The idea is that any interference picked up on one wire is picked up equally on the other. The balanced input stage on the preamp rejects any noise that's common to both cores.

Stereo cable ideally has a separate screen round each wire, so the two signals are kept separate.

You can of course use a TRS jack for either.

[obbm]

[quote name='bremen' post='359459' date='Dec 20 2008, 11:28 AM']Balanced cable is usually screened with foil or braid and has a twisted pair of inner cables. The idea is that any interference picked up on one wire is picked up equally on the other. The balanced input stage on the preamp rejects any noise that's common to both cores.

Stereo cable ideally has a separate screen round each wire, so the two signals are kept separate.

You can of course use a TRS jack for either.[/quote]

Perfect explanation. If you use a balanced cable for stereo you will induce left/right crosstalk and the signal will be permanently and irrevocably impaired.

[escholl]

[quote name='bremen' post='359459' date='Dec 20 2008, 11:28 AM']Balanced cable is usually screened with foil or braid and has a twisted pair of inner cables. The idea is that any interference picked up on one wire is picked up equally on the other. The balanced input stage on the preamp rejects any noise that's common to both cores.

Stereo cable ideally has a separate screen round each wire, so the two signals are kept separate.

You can of course use a TRS jack for either.[/quote]


Oh right, duh haha....i knew that

Wasn't thinking of the cable itself, was just thinking of what the difference would be in that situation. Probably should have thought about it a little harder.

[goaround]

Have been reading this thread as I was sorting throught some cables I have at home, I suspect them to be speaker cables, some usefully have "speaker cable" printed by the manufacturer, some I have unscrewed the jacks and checked the wiring as dscribed earlier in this thread.

Some though have moulded jacks, can I tell if it is speaker or instrument by the specs printed on the cable e.g.

AWG 18 - 41/0.16 - 0.824mm2 - 6.0mm

cheers