No. 8 Wire Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hi All, Just after some advice, I have 2 walkabout combo cabs, but I want to use one as an external cab. However, these just come with a short cable to link to the amp inside the combo housing. To get it to the back of the amp in the top combo i need a 2 ft extension. I know the ideal would be to replace the existing cable with a hard wired longer one, but is there any harm in using a male to female 2ft extension with quality jacks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 No. (There are no quality jacks to transfer that much energy from amp to the cab. Speakon is far better an alternative. But this is my very subjective point of view.) If you split the bass signal to two, you could drive both amps and cabs. A stereo chorus maybe... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, itu said: No. (There are no quality jacks to transfer that much energy from amp to the cab. Speakon is far better an alternative. But this is my very subjective point of view.) If you split the bass signal to two, you could drive both amps and cabs. A stereo chorus maybe... Just to clarify, there's only 1 amp, the second combo cab will just act as an extension cab. The walkabout head doesn't have speakon connections unfortunately. Sounds like I'll be getting my soldering iron out though from your answer... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 50 minutes ago, itu said: If you split the bass signal to two, you could drive both amps and cabs. A stereo chorus maybe... Although i don't have 2 walkabout heads, if I did I would use them in a master-slave arrangement. Ie with one preamp driving 2 poweramps through the effect return of the slave amp. Would be a killer rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I don't understand, you say you've got two combos and then you say don't? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Jack said: I don't understand, you say you've got two combos and then you say don't? I can see how this would be confusing. The Walkabout combo is a backpack type combo, you can remove the amp to use as a stand alone head. I have two of the backpack combo cabinets but only one amp between them. Check out the crappy image attached to see what I mean. Also, this ad from bassdirect shows the arrangement at the back of the cab - the speaker cable is only about 8 inches long: http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Mesa_Boogie_Walkabout_115_combo.html Edited June 28, 2019 by No. 8 Wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Gotcha, I do now notice that you said 'combo cabs' and that does make sense. Maybe I should stop skiving at work and then I would have the time to read posts properly. 🙂 To answer the actual question: I don't know of any female/female 1/4" couplers or male/female extension cables that can handle speaker-level signals. To be fair, at the voltages that bass amps use I don't like ANY 1/4" connections, but as you've noticed, they're your only choice here. You may have to make one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 You can make a speaker capable extension using Switchcraft 128 in line jack and 184 plug. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: You can make a speaker capable extension using Switchcraft 128 in line jack and 184 plug. Bill, thanks so much for your input. I take it the neutrik equivalent would be fine also? Also assume there is no problem having an extra male to female connection in the line to the extension cab? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I haven't come across Neutrik that are suitable for speaker extensions. Apparently they want you to use Speakon. 😏 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: I haven't come across Neutrik that are suitable for speaker extensions. Apparently they want you to use Speakon. 😏 Not suprising I guess. I was vaguely thinking of a locking jack socket for extra security, like this: https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nj3fc6 or are these for instrument cables only? EDIT: I found one pre-made - would this do the trick: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tour-Grade-Van-Damme-SPEAKER-Mono-Jack-Extension-Socket-Lead-AMP-CAB-Cable/152751182825 Edited June 28, 2019 by No. 8 Wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 I guess they'll do, it just seems like the barrel size is small for speaker cable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 It baffles me why jacks are still being used in amps - other than saving a few pennies and not being new fangled. I'd go as far as to say that I wouldn't buy and amp/cab that didn't use Speakons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, Alec said: It baffles me why jacks are still being used in amps - other than saving a few pennies and not being new fangled. I'd go as far as to say that I wouldn't buy and amp/cab that didn't use Speakons Well, I agree in general, but my walkabout was made in the early to mid 2000s. Not sure when it became standard procedure to install speakons on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 8 hours ago, No. 8 Wire said: Well, I agree in general, but my walkabout was made in the early to mid 2000s. Not sure when it became standard procedure to install speakons on everything. Speakons have easily been around since then. Sadly, bass amps were slow to adopt - particularly US models. Its also common to find cheaper amps/cabs still stuck in their jack plug world. In fact, for guitar amps, I think it's even worse, sadly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Jacks were ruled out after some European regulation. Americans do not care about it that much, but they need to install Speakons, if they want to sell their amps at this side of the big water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Jacks are still around so new amps/cabs can be used with old cabs/amps equipped with jacks. However, Neutrik has made a combination speakon/jack amp output connector for at least fifteen years, so any amp designed within that time frame has no excuse for not having a speakon output. On the cab side the use of an input plate equipped with parallel speakon/jacks might add two quid to the build cost, so there's no excuse for the lack of it there either. To the best of my knowledge there's no legal issue with jacks in Europe. What was made illegal was banana jacks/plugs, as they could fit into AC outlets used in some locales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 5 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Neutrik has made a combination speakon/jack amp output connector for at least fifteen years, so any amp designed within that time frame has no excuse for not having a speakon output. On the cab side the use of an input plate equipped with parallel speakon/jacks might add two quid to the build cost, so there's no excuse for the lack of it there either. Unfortunately, and especially at the cheaper end of the market, every penny counts. So, a few pounds on the build cost would likely be considered waay too much cost eating into margins. 5 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: To the best of my knowledge there's no legal issue with jacks in Europe. What was made illegal was banana jacks/plugs, as they could fit into AC outlets used in some locales. Indeed, best to keep to facts, rather than Euro-myths. And, sadly, there are still amps/cabs being brought to market today with just jacks.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said: Jacks are still around so new amps/cabs can be used with old cabs/amps equipped with jacks. However, Neutrik has made a combination speakon/jack amp output connector for at least fifteen years, so any amp designed within that time frame has no excuse for not having a speakon output. On the cab side the use of an input plate equipped with parallel speakon/jacks might add two quid to the build cost, so there's no excuse for the lack of it there either. To the best of my knowledge there's no legal issue with jacks in Europe. What was made illegal was banana jacks/plugs, as they could fit into AC outlets used in some locales. Bill - the Walkabout platform was designed before that point in time (~1999), and simply remained a legacy product many years longer than anticipated. There are 3 separate and distinct issues regarding the adoption of SpeakOn jacks within the international market. The first one was the possibility of a banana connection being too close to some AC power connector dimensions, the second is that with many bridged amps the open circuit voltage on the shell of a 1/4" connector would fall out of the range of the various low voltage directives and the third being that with high powered amps even the single ended voltage on the tip of the plug would fall out of this range. Some of this was later addressed with the the changes incorporated in IEC60065 section 9.1.1.1 which allows higher voltages for audio speaker level signals BUT some jurisdictions will not allow this hence the almost universal migration to SpeakOn as the easier (and better) method of compliance globally. Edited June 30, 2019 by agedhorse 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 On 28/06/2019 at 02:25, No. 8 Wire said: Hi All, Just after some advice, I have 2 walkabout combo cabs, but I want to use one as an external cab. However, these just come with a short cable to link to the amp inside the combo housing. To get it to the back of the amp in the top combo i need a 2 ft extension. I know the ideal would be to replace the existing cable with a hard wired longer one, but is there any harm in using a male to female 2ft extension with quality jacks? You can use a 1/4" (6.35mm) female barrel connector and a short 1/4" (6.35mm) cable to extend the existing cable on the WA cabinet. It would be good practice to include an insulating tube over all conductive parts of the shell to prevent noise from ground loops. This advice is specific to the Walkabout which has a ground referenced speaker output. Some conventional amps and many class D amps use a bridged output topology, so because the shell is energized, the shell MUST be insulated from anything and everything that it might come into contact with. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 6 hours ago, agedhorse said: You can use a 1/4" (6.35mm) female barrel connector and a short 1/4" (6.35mm) cable to extend the existing cable on the WA cabinet. It would be good practice to include an insulating tube over all conductive parts of the shell to prevent noise from ground loops. This advice is specific to the Walkabout which has a ground referenced speaker output. Some conventional amps and many class D amps use a bridged output topology, so because the shell is energized, the shell MUST be insulated from anything and everything that it might come into contact with. Thanks for this info. Much appreciated! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 On 28/06/2019 at 18:58, Bill Fitzmaurice said: I guess they'll do, it just seems like the barrel size is small for speaker cable. That jack socket is rated at 10 amps so will be OK. The plug rating is dependant on the mating socket so will be determined by the quality of the jacks Mesa use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted July 1, 2019 Author Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just to round off the topic, I think I'll just solder in a longer cable rather than use an extension. It's sounding like the most straightforward and reliable option and also the cheapest! That last little bit of info from agedhorse makes the decision easy really. I only considered an extension because my soldering skill is somewhat sub optimal! Thanks for everyone's posts and input, very much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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