multi-effect pedal choice

[powerplant]

sorry double posting from bass talk but I am up for a multi effect pedal and need advice as I can not test the stuff and compare.

I am thinking of treating myself with a multieffext box. I am not a pro player and will use it mostly to noodle with recorded stuff using headphones. I like to play with the sounds and experiment with strings etc. There seems to be three to those from. The things I will use mostly seriously is octaver, OD the looper and possible some revered/sustain type modelling.

Helix: Seams to be the most appreciated, has everything I need but it is an old box the looper is very short. programming looks super easy and a big community of users to ask. I have the feeling that a new version is coming up soon. All versions on sale at thoman and technically it is an old box.

Boss GT1000: with the new update a decent nr of bass amps etc was added. also short looper. Seams much more difficult to program and worse sound compare to helix? no really fans in Europe 

Mooer GE300: Newest and most advanced technically, Company is not as respected or trustworthy compared to line6 or Boss, Smaller (better for me), very few bass specific effects and amps, long looper - possibility to practice whole songs. Software updates most likely coming at least one.

Headruch?

Fractal, many versions, ones are super expensive and designed for multiple instruments pro preforming. The smaller models are affordable though but lacks looper. 

I don't have the possibility to try them out and compare unfortunately. What is the feeling in the BC community about these multi-effects? Are they used among bass players? If I'm wrong in my statements above please correct me,
 
 

Edited July 1, 2019 by powerplant

[Al Krow]

Welcome to BC! 

If this is your first multifx, I'd recommend also checking out the Zoom B1-4 (or B1X-4 with the expression pedal included, which is the model I have). The free ToneLib PC software makes creating and editing patches very straightforward and fun on Zoom pedals.

In terms of value for money, you'll be hard pressed to beat the B1-4. 

The Helix Stomp is a step up in quality from the Zoom and has a strong BC following. The additional DSP power of the Helix allows for better effect sims than the Zoom B1-4 but it is about 6 times more expensive!

Edited July 1, 2019 by Al Krow

[powerplant]

Thanks for the advice and i will have a look at zoom. The price is also very attractive compared to the others.

 

[Skybone]

If you want the flexibility of a great sounding Multi-FX unit, but can't really afford to get something like a Helix or Headrush or similar, but want access to both guitar & bass amp & cab sims, as well as all the effects, and want them to sound good, then consider looking at a Line6 HD500x.

The standard unit only has 2 or 3 amp/cab sims that are bass focused, so the HD Bass pack is a must (even though it "only" adds 3 amp sims & 2 cab sims), but they do sound excellent IMO. If you get the "fully loaded" HD amp models, it will add a load more guitar amps & cabs as well as the bass pack.

If you look on eBay or another second hand site, you can pick one up, in great condition, for about £200-250.

I've been using one for about 2 years, and it sounds fantastic, both for recording and for the band. Well worth checking out.

[powerplant]

A helix stomp is within budget an possibly a lt too

however it looks like a new one is around the corner which will lower the prices 

the looper is also bad in the helix and the whole point with this things is to only have the multi effects box to carry

[LukeFRC]

Zoom B3n? For bang for buck it’s pretty good 

actually it’s pretty good full stop

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, powerplant said:

A helix stomp is within budget an possibly a lt too

however it looks like a new one is around the corner which will lower the prices...

Interesting you say that - what's your source?

I've not come across any other online rumours / gossip that Line6 are releasing a new version of the Stomp. They may of course be doing a software update (which is to be expected from time to time), but that would be making use of the existing hardware.

[fretmeister]

Helix is not being replaced for a while.

 

Line 6 are currently doing a massive Core program rebuild for it that is due to land at the end of this year.

They wouldn't be doing that if a new machine was expected in the next 12 months.

 

They are also planning to make the Stomp have more capabilities too - by updating the Software - although there is no time line for that. The whole point of the Helix system is that patches can be moved between many of the units and into the Native plug-in version too.

 

Join the main Helix facebook group - the developers post there all the time.

 

Of course there will be a new one at some point and the usual people will complain about the original being obsolete. And yet the day after the new one lands the old one will still sound as awesome as it did the day before. And you'll be able to get a spare for buttons.

 

It's a fantastic unit for bass - far better than the other 2 top line modellers. The lead guys on the Helix are bassists too. Probably has something to do with it.

The next update (2.8) will have a few new bass items in it. The Ampeg SVT4-Pro and the Tech 21 BDD if I recall correctly. It already has more bass amp options than the other units.

 

And with the parallel pathways every effect can be used with bass perfectly by clean blending. Never lose the low end with it!

Edited July 2, 2019 by fretmeister

[fretmeister]

The rumours of a new Helix might be because of the HUGE amount of facebook traffic wondering when the next software update is - it was supposed to drop last week but it's not ready.

That will be version 2.8.

The mods on the main group now shut down every thread asking about it, because there are hundreds of eijits asking every day!

 

But it's not hardware round the corner - it's another (free) software update.

[Woodinblack]

If the looper is your main thing, why not get a headrush looper, cheaper than the helix, but a dedicated looper.

If it was me for at home, i would just get something like a Zoom Z1-four and a boss RC300 / 505

 

And yes, the stomp is too new for anything else yet.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Woodinblack

[PaulWarning]

cheapest one on the market is the Zoom B1on, changing the settings is tricky till you get used to it but it does everything you'd want, including a looper (though I've never used it on mine) I still use it all the time, tried a Zoom B3 but preferred the B1on because it's a lot smaller and fits into my bass case

[Cato]

I joined the Stomp club in January and I really do rate it very highly for bass (although I think it really excels as a skinny string guitar multi fx unit).

But it hasn't replaced my £50 B1on which I prefer for silent home practice, mainly because of the looper and drum tracks. I also think the envelope filters are better for bass on the B1on than on the Stomp, but that may be down to me not yet mastering the Stomp.

I still like the B1on so much that I'm actually seriously considering getting a B1-4 even though I've already got more multi FX goodness than I really need.

[powerplant]

I’m sorry to have stirred up rumors

I have no info on when the new helix will arrive I just read the release history on line6.

i think Thatcher mooer ge3000 will take some  customers from helix due to its aggressive pricindanda new polyphonic helix would strengthen line 6 as a top brand

 I see that the zooms might be best for me if idont want a separate looper 

thanks for all input

 

 

[LukeFRC]

10 hours ago, Cato said:

I joined the Stomp club in January and I really do rate it very highly for bass (although I think it really excels as a skinny string guitar multi fx unit).

But it hasn't replaced my £50 B1on which I prefer for silent home practice, mainly because of the looper and drum tracks. I also think the envelope filters are better for bass on the B1on than on the Stomp, but that may be down to me not yet mastering the Stomp.

I still like the B1on so much that I'm actually seriously considering getting a B1-4 even though I've already got more multi FX goodness than I really need.

You should try the latest generation Zoom modelling - I like it. (B3n for me)

Playing with the idea of a stomp mind, not sure if it’s so much nicer sounding for bass to be worth it but we can see

[dannybuoy]

There will be a B3n in the classifieds very soon! 😉

[songofthewind]

I sometimes combine a B3n with a Boss RC300. This is a highly functional if bulky solution. I’m even considering adding another B3n to this rig!

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, dannybuoy said:

There will be a B3n in the classifieds very soon! 😉

Mine or yours? 

[Al Krow]

The latest generation chipset Zooms are the B3n and the B1-4. Neither have a particularly good looper, although the B1-4's looper is the more easily accessible of the two. 

The looper recording time on the B1-4 is just 30 seconds and I think the B3n will be similar.

If a looper is important for you, then there are plenty of other options, but that's a whole separate thread!

The NUX Loop Core is around £60 and provides 6 HOURS of loop recording with 99 memory locations and seems to me to be one of the better value loopers, although I've not had one myself (I've still got my old trusty Boss RC30, which provides 3 hours of recording also with 99 memory slots).

Just as an fyi - there is an almost new B1-4 in the classifieds if you're interested. The seller is a really good guy.

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[BigRedX]

As overs have said just because a unit is old doesn't affect its functionality. The software for the Helix range is being continually updated for free, so my recommendation would be for whatever out of the range best suits your needs.

And to underline the point about old not necessarily meaning out of date even in the fast moving world of high-tech musical equipment, until I got the Helix, the main component of my guitar rig was a Roland GP8, one of the very first multi-effects units available, dating from the mid-80s, and still going strong. The only one of my previous effect units I've kept is a Linn Adrenalinn Mk1 which itself is almost 20 years old.

[Al Krow]

 

17 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

As overs have said just because a unit is old doesn't affect its functionality. The software for the Helix range is being continually updated for free, so my recommendation would be for whatever out of the range best suits your needs.

And to underline the point about old not necessarily meaning out of date even in the fast moving world of high-tech musical equipment, until I got the Helix, the main component of my guitar rig was a Roland GP8, one of the very first multi-effects units available, dating from the mid-80s, and still going strong. The only one of my previous effect units I've kept is a Linn Adrenalinn Mk1 which itself is almost 20 years old.

I'd agree with you on analogue pedals.

But not when it comes to digital. As a rule of thumb increased DSP capacity + improved software => better emulations. The Helix Stomp is a step up from the Zoom kit in terms of capability (and price!) no question.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[fretmeister]

2 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

 

I'd agree with you on analogue pedals.

But not when it comes to digital. As a rule of thumb increased DSP capacity + improved software => better emulations. The Helix Stomp is a step up from the Zoom kit in terms of capability (and price!) no question.

Of course - but that doesn't mean older units suddenly sound worse. Eventually they don't get updated and they just sound the same.

 

Just like analogue pedals that never change.

[Al Krow]

26 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Of course - but that doesn't mean older units suddenly sound worse. Eventually they don't get updated and they just sound the same.

For sure, they don't sound worse than they did before. It's just that once you've enjoyed the almost zero latency of e.g. the Helix pitch shift it does mean that the Zoom pitch shift is not something you're able to put up with any longer!  It's like coming back from my parents' place where they have a 4K TV and having to settle down in front of our own 10 year old 720p screen! 

Equally some newer things can sound worse than the older tech...not found any of the modern Mesa D class amps to be in the same league as the now discontinued but still outstanding Mesa M6.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Al Krow

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

For sure, they don't sound worse than they did before. It's just that once you've enjoyed the almost zero latency of e.g. the Helix pitch shift it does mean that the Zoom pitch shift is not something you're able to put up with any longer!  It's like coming back from my parents' place where they have a 4K TV and having to settle down in front of our own 10 year old 720p screen! 

Equally some newer things can sound worse than the older tech...not found any of the modern Mesa D class amps to be in the same league as the now discontinued but still outstanding Mesa M6.

I do wonder where all the old gear ends up. Like a few years back you couldn’t move on a bass forum for loads of Genz Benz stuff... but you rarely see it now. 

Old analogue stuff doesn’t really age and still does now what it did then, digital... well part of that is the curve of quality which (for me) has only got good enough in the last 5 years or so, and also cheaper screens meaning hopefully less mental UX 

[Skybone]

11 hours ago, fretmeister said:

Of course - but that doesn't mean older units suddenly sound worse. Eventually they don't get updated and they just sound the same.

 

Just like analogue pedals that never change.

Which is why I said that the HD500x is a great option for anyone wanting to dip their toe into great modelling set ups. Loads of great amp, cab & effects sims, that sound great, and can be bought for around half the price of a HX Stomp (which has far less connectivity options). OK, it's not going to be updated anymore, but you can still get the HD amp packs (30% off until 14th June btw!), it still sounds great, and is a really hardy unit.

Well, I rate it anyway.

[powerplant]

Just pickles up a zoom b1four

and it is a wonderfull practice tool with headphones and a my phone for playback. I have no idea if the sound is good enough for gigging 

very cheap compared to the alternatives and fits in the gigbag easily