Who is wireless?

[murathan]

Guys, What do you think about SENNHEISER XSW-D and BOSS WL-60 ?

I am between these two models. Sennheiser has the tuner function and XLR output and a very small transmitter which can be installed directly or on the belt with an extension cable. Boss lacks the tuner which is a huge drawback for me and no XLR Output. However Boss offers 2.39 ms latency vs Sennehise offers 3.9ms latency.

Is the 1.51ms latency is not an issue. I am more prone to go with Sennheiser for the smaller form factor and the tuner extra.

I really would like to hear your comments about these two items.

[Aliwobble]

1.5ms of extra latency will not make any difference. It’s like standing 45cm further away from your amp.

[dave_bass5]

its such a shame Boss put that nice display on the receiver but didnt add a tuner to it. Would have been so easy to do.

[BigRedX]

50 minutes ago, Aliwobble said:

1.5ms of extra latency will not make any difference. It’s like standing 45cm further away from your amp.

But it could do if you have other items in your signal path that are also adding latency.

[EBS_freak]

Oh it does worry me when people make sweeping statements about latency without really understanding exactly how important it is.

BigRedX nails it. Signal path through digital pedals is all accumulating latency... then the latency of the desk etc...

Latency is of massive importance. If you are an IEM user, latency should be right there at the forefront of your mind.

[Aliwobble]

3 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

But it could do if you have other items in your signal path that are also adding latency.

Well, yes it could. But in that case pretty much all the 2.4GHz systems will have the same problem as they all introduce a few ms of latency. A UHF system has no latency (I think, although I could be wrong) and so might be a better match if your signal chain is running lots of digital pedals in series.

[EBS_freak]

It's the A/D and D/A conversion that is adding latency, not the fact that it is running over the 2.4GHz spectrum. These systems don't use the same technology as WiFi and computers or whatever... they utilise that piece of RF spectrum purely because it is unregulated and hence no license is required. Doubled with the fact that the 2.4Ghz is available worldwide, it's really appealing to manufacturers because they can manufacture 1 unit to flog worldwide as opposed to making the same unit but with different radio modules.

Systems like ULXD, QLXD, 9000 series... all utilise the same sort of tech as the systems as their 2.4GHz... but in there cases, manufacturers do market systems for use on different parts of the RF spectrum... hence they don't have the radio interference issues normally faced by 2.4GHz systems. They still incur that latency in the digital to analgue conversions though!

Of course, you can go UHF - but then you are into the realms of companders... which can bring it's own problems... and additionally, unlike high density digital systems, they are lot more hungry in terms of eating up available spectrum in a designated channel.

Edited August 13, 2019 by EBS_freak

[dave_bass5]

16 hours ago, murathan said:

Guys, What do you think about SENNHEISER XSW-D and BOSS WL-60 ?

I am between these two models. Sennheiser has the tuner function and XLR output and a very small transmitter which can be installed directly or on the belt with an extension cable. Boss lacks the tuner which is a huge drawback for me and no XLR Output. However Boss offers 2.39 ms latency vs Sennehise offers 3.9ms latency.

Is the 1.51ms latency is not an issue. I am more prone to go with Sennheiser for the smaller form factor and the tuner extra.

I really would like to hear your comments about these two items.

 

 

Have you looked at the Line 6 G10s? Latency is a bit less than the Sen and it looks like quite a cool system. Also cheaper than the other two systems.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/line-6-relay-g10s-digital-wireless-guitar-system-w-pedal-sized-receiver-grelayg10s

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

It's the A/D and D/A conversion that is adding latency, not the fact that it is running over the 2.4GHz spectrum. These systems don't use the same technology as WiFi and computers or whatever... they utilise that piece of RF spectrum purely because it is unregulated and hence no license is required. Doubled with the fact that the 2.4Ghz is available worldwide, it's really appealing to manufacturers because they can manufacture 1 unit to flog worldwide as opposed to making the same unit but with different radio modules.

Systems like ULXD, QLXD, 9000 series... all utilise the same sort of tech as the systems as their 2.4GHz... but in there cases, manufacturers do market systems for use on different parts of the RF spectrum... hence they don't have the radio interference issues normally faced by 2.4GHz systems. They still incur that latency in the digital to analgue conversions though!

Of course, you can go UHF - but then you are into the realms of companders... which can bring it's own problems... and additionally, unlike high density digital systems, they are lot more hungry in terms of eating up available spectrum in a designated channel.

Hope you don't mind me asking but how do you know all of this. You seem very clued up on electronics and radio frequency stuff.(that's meant as a compliment and not sarcasm)

I'm just curious if its just an interest or a hobby you have or its part of your job in real life.

I guess i'm just nosey 

Dave

[stewblack]

Just to say I joined the club recently, Line 6 Relay G75 to be precise. Not stood that far away so latency hasn't been an issue but it was a joy A) to have no electric shocks and B) to be able to wander round and hear myself in context during the soundcheck.

Oh and it all worked, at both gigs, one outside in a beer garden the other in a busy pub. So far I'm a happy wireless user. Just need a pouch to attach to my strap for the transmitter, preferably one that doesn't cost a fortune and I'm all set. Oh and a second transmitter for my second bass. Oh and a second pouch for the second transmitter. Oh and a couple of locking cables with right angled jacks. Oh and to overcome my disorganised laziness and learn about setting up and using different scenes for different basses. Oh and to stop always wanting more.

[PaulWarning]

On 03/07/2019 at 16:54, PaulWarning said:

don't know whether you saw my earlier post about the flimsy power supply socket, it will probably fail without some sort of support bracket, both me and the guitarist had to do this, apart from that it is an excellent unit with no other issues that I have found even when we were both using them at the same time

 

1 hour ago, dave_bass5 said:

Have you looked at the Line 6 G10s? Latency is a bit less than the Sen and it looks like quite a cool system. Also cheaper than the other two systems.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/line-6-relay-g10s-digital-wireless-guitar-system-w-pedal-sized-receiver-grelayg10s

major design flaw with the G10, mines still ok with the above mod I did, our guitarist has just ditched his because of this fault

[EBS_freak]

15 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

 

major design flaw with the G10, mines still ok with the above mod I did, our guitarist has just ditched his because of this fault

And for double security, gaffa over the top if you are scared of such things being exposed.

[EBS_freak]

40 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Hope you don't mind me asking but how do you know all of this. You seem very clued up on electronics and radio frequency stuff.(that's meant as a compliment and not sarcasm)

I'm just curious if its just an interest or a hobby you have or its part of your job in real life.

I guess i'm just nosey 

Dave

It came from lots of frustrations of trying to make lots of wireless work. (I run 13 channels of wireless in my band). So sat down and read and read, learned about intermodulation and the like, then got interested in the tech out there... and of course having a massive passion from inears, it kind of goes hand in hand when trying to co-ordinate wireless inears without stuff dropping out, or being latency bound.

I have been known to have gone to the industry days (people like Shure) on wireless... "for fun".

I've helped more than a few people get their wireless together, including a couple of theatre shows who had bought all the gear but could never get them co-ordinated right.

I guess that I also have a habit of swotting up on stuff that interests me... and then applying it in the real world to prove to myself I guess, that I can walk the walk.

Sometimes I must come across a bit smart alec.... but I've seen too many times bands just buying wireless stuff and expecting it just to work (made worse by the fact that each band member turns up with their own complete random wireless gear)... which it can if you are staying with the same brand and model of wireless... but it's when you start running completely random stuff with fixed frequencies that co-ordinating becomes a lot, lot more troublesome.

I guess what I am trying to say, is if you want to go wireless as a band, you need to have a strategy - and everybody subscribes to the same way of thinking.

[dave_bass5]

26 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

 

major design flaw with the G10, mines still ok with the above mod I did, our guitarist has just ditched his because of this fault

Is it the same with the G10S, the one I posted about?

EDIT: Not the same thing at all. 

Edited August 13, 2019 by dave_bass5

[PaulWarning]

24 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

And for double security, gaffa over the top if you are scared of such things being exposed.

that would probably work, but you might need a bit more than gaffer tape, as I said before the problem is the power socket is attached to the circuit board with no other support so any flexing with eventually result in a poor connection to the circuit board or where the plug goes into the socket, anybody who has had problems charging their mobile phone will know the problem

[PaulWarning]

25 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Is it the same with the G10S, the one I posted about?

EDIT: Not the same thing at all. 

apologies, didn't see the 's' didn't even know it was out, looks like they've learnt from the issues with the G10, but it is nearly twice the price which takes in to competition with a lot of other wireless systems.

Personally, when I get another one it'll be something like the Boss WL20 where you don't have a bulky receiver at all  

[uk_lefty]

43 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Sometimes I must come across a bit smart alec.... but I've seen too many times bands just buying wireless stuff and expecting it just to work (made worse by the fact that each band member turns up with their own complete random wireless gear)... which it can if you are staying with the same brand and model of wireless... but it's when you start running completely random stuff with fixed frequencies that co-ordinating becomes a lot, lot more troublesome.

Lots of wise words in there! A visit from you may have saved me returning my wireless G75 to Andertons two weeks ago! 

[dmccombe7]

3 hours ago, EBS_freak said:

It came from lots of frustrations of trying to make lots of wireless work. (I run 13 channels of wireless in my band). So sat down and read and read, learned about intermodulation and the like, then got interested in the tech out there... and of course having a massive passion from inears, it kind of goes hand in hand when trying to co-ordinate wireless inears without stuff dropping out, or being latency bound.

I have been known to have gone to the industry days (people like Shure) on wireless... "for fun".

I've helped more than a few people get their wireless together, including a couple of theatre shows who had bought all the gear but could never get them co-ordinated right.

I guess that I also have a habit of swotting up on stuff that interests me... and then applying it in the real world to prove to myself I guess, that I can walk the walk.

Sometimes I must come across a bit smart alec.... but I've seen too many times bands just buying wireless stuff and expecting it just to work (made worse by the fact that each band member turns up with their own complete random wireless gear)... which it can if you are staying with the same brand and model of wireless... but it's when you start running completely random stuff with fixed frequencies that co-ordinating becomes a lot, lot more troublesome.

I guess what I am trying to say, is if you want to go wireless as a band, you need to have a strategy - and everybody subscribes to the same way of thinking.

You just come across as someone who knows his stuff. It had to be thru experience and i just wondered how and where you learned it all.

I now know who to ask when / if our band decides to go wireless and i'll need to upgrade my Smooth Hound.

Appreciate you sharing your background. Its always good to know where someone is coming from and you are the man by sounds of it.

Thanks

Dave

[dave_bass5]

4 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

apologies, didn't see the 's' didn't even know it was out, looks like they've learnt from the issues with the G10, but it is nearly twice the price which takes in to competition with a lot of other wireless systems.

Personally, when I get another one it'll be something like the Boss WL20 where you don't have a bulky receiver at all  

No problem, the names are very similar. I’m not a fan of the bug transmitter, but they seem to becoming very common in the under £200 price point.

I use a Boss WL-20L but got it as I wanted to go completely wire free. I’ll probably get a smoothhound when I do go back to using a PSU of some sort. 

[murathan]

On 13/08/2019 at 16:19, dave_bass5 said:

Have you looked at the Line 6 G10s? Latency is a bit less than the Sen and it looks like quite a cool system. Also cheaper than the other two systems.

https://www.andertons.co.uk/line-6-relay-g10s-digital-wireless-guitar-system-w-pedal-sized-receiver-grelayg10s

Yes I have seen them but I had too much drop outs with Line 6 in the past so I want to stay away from them. And there is no tuner on it.

Edited August 19, 2019 by murathan

[la bam]

I've just picked up a line 6 g75.

But.....can anyone tell me what the plug/power situation is about?

I seem to have a plug top that can take a usb cable, but only adaptors for a 2 pin connection and a very weird 2 prong connection focused at 10 and 2 o'clock?

No British 3 pin connection?

[la bam]

Ah, it seems they're just for the usb at 5v.

There is no 9v adaptor included.

I guess I'll have to go and buy one.

Annoying.

[walshy]

25 minutes ago, la bam said:

Ah, it seems they're just for the usb at 5v.

There is no 9v adaptor included.

I guess I'll have to go and buy one.

Annoying.

Yep

i did the same, EBay for about £7

[stewblack]

1 hour ago, la bam said:

Ah, it seems they're just for the usb at 5v.

There is no 9v adaptor included.

I guess I'll have to go and buy one.

Annoying.

I've powered mine via usb for the last few gigs, it's been fine. 

[la bam]

USB into an adaptor, or one of those 4 ways with usb ports?