Why I opt for Amazon

[Jazzmaster62]

On 04/07/2019 at 14:53, hooky_lowdown said:

So you're championing zero hours contract and minimum wage, well done you!

Well increase the minimum wage then so everyone else can pay higher taxes, moneybags...

[steve-bbb]

On 04/07/2019 at 14:53, hooky_lowdown said:

So you're championing zero hours contract and minimum wage, well done you!

you forgot that they pay virtually flip all corporation tax

[dave_bass5]

7 minutes ago, steve-bbb said:

you forgot that they pay virtually flip all corporation tax

Helps keep the prices low though. 

[LeftyP]

I won't criticize people who choose to boycott Amazon, even though I use them for most things I'm looking for.  Their working practices are not the most ethical but the tax situation could be sorted by the government if they really were concerned about it.  As for the working conditions of people directly employed by Amazon I would suggest that in the UK and across the EU there are laws to protect workers against exploitation so, again, the governments need to step up their game.

Why single out Amazon?  I can't defend them, but if you are really concerned about workers conditions then don't buy anything from China or some other far eastern countries.  If you own anything from Nike or Apple, check out the reports on the internet about how their workers are treated.  Do you know what conditions are like in the factory where your bass guitar was made?  Many "name" guitar brands are made in the far east; China, Taiwan, India, Indonesia and South Korea.  They are made there because of cheap labour and Cort guitars have not exactly covered themselves in glory concerning their treatment of workers in the past.  I have no reason to believe that Cort are any worse than other manufacturers.  I think things have improved somewhat but my own bass was made in South Korea by Mirr Music and I have no idea what conditions are like there.

Taking a pop at Amazon is easy, but if you buy the same product from another dealer, it still will have been made in the same factory and under the same conditions as a one bought from Amazon.  Business is designed to make money and profit is king the world over.  Workers have always had to fight for better conditions which is why unions started.  Fight on and make your stand but it is easy to be selective and take the easy option of hitting the obvious target.

[fleabag]

While we all abhor the cunning corporate tactics of paying sweet FA tax on profits, this is a fault of the Govt.  tax loopholes. They could shut these loopholes down in the blink of an eyeball, but they wont.

Not even the local self employed plumber,  electrician, builder etc , pays more tax than they have to.  Everyone bar none, pays the minimum  that HMRC requires.  The big monster corporate money making machines are merely paying the legal amount, and least amount that they can get away with. Like every other business. 

[dave_bass5]

35 minutes ago, fleabag said:

While we all abhor the cunning corporate tactics of paying sweet FA tax on profits, this is a fault of the Govt.  tax loopholes. They could shut these loopholes down in the blink of an eyeball, but they wont.

Not even the local self employed plumber,  electrician, builder etc , pays more tax than they have to.  Everyone bar none, pays the minimum  that HMRC requires.  The big monster corporate money making machines are merely paying the legal amount, and least amount that they can get away with. Like every other business. 

And im sure not everyone declares their gig earnings, even if they should.

[Doctor J]

“Gig earnings”?

What are these things of which you speak?

[dave_bass5]

45 minutes ago, Doctor J said:

“Gig earnings”?

What are these things of which you speak?

Sorry, i thought i was in the Covers Band thread 🤣

[NancyJohnson]

Amazon are ALWAYS my first port of call for any online service; I pay for their Prime service, so next day/next working day delivery on pretty much everything, TV service etc.  They're generally the cheapest in the online marketplace and at the end of the day it's down to customer choices.  The only negative (as discussed earlier up the thread) is that if you do have an issue (rare), it does seem very difficult to find a contact form to advise them.

On the subject of how ethical they are, I have a good friend who has worked at a (very, very) high level for both J P Morgan and Chase Manhattan; he's of the opinion that while Amazon are throwing a bunch of money at whoever their accountants may be, they're not actually doing anything that's specifically illegal, it's moreover a case of the business being well versed in tax law, what the legal loopholes are and knowing how to exploit them.  

Concerning the @T-Bay experience, I just find it difficult to grasp why Amazon (who, if your description is correct, only acted as the marketplace agent, not the owner/seller), would not handle a return/refund/replacement for the component you purchased; in the ten-odd years I've been buying from them - literally hundreds of purchases - there's been a couple of instances where things have gone awry, most noticeably a UPS that wouldn't hold a charge, they just replaced the unit like for like and didn't even want to old one back.  They bent over backwards to satisfy my issue.

 

[T-Bay]

2 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

Amazon are ALWAYS my first port of call for any online service; I pay for their Prime service, so next day/next working day delivery on pretty much everything, TV service etc.  They're generally the cheapest in the online marketplace and at the end of the day it's down to customer choices.  The only negative (as discussed earlier up the thread) is that if you do have an issue (rare), it does seem very difficult to find a contact form to advise them.

On the subject of how ethical they are, I have a good friend who has worked at a (very, very) high level for both J P Morgan and Chase Manhattan; he's of the opinion that while Amazon are throwing a bunch of money at whoever their accountants may be, they're not actually doing anything that's specifically illegal, it's moreover a case of the business being well versed in tax law, what the legal loopholes are and knowing how to exploit them.  

Concerning the @T-Bay experience, I just find it difficult to grasp why Amazon (who, if your description is correct, only acted as the marketplace agent, not the owner/seller), would not handle a return/refund/replacement for the component you purchased; in the ten-odd years I've been buying from them - literally hundreds of purchases - there's been a couple of instances where things have gone awry, most noticeably a UPS that wouldn't hold a charge, they just replaced the unit like for like and didn't even want to old one back.  They bent over backwards to satisfy my issue.

 

I had an issue with them prior to this and they were fine with me as well, however that was for a small value item and the seller was happy to refund. They could not have been more different, and it wasn’t just one person, We dealt with a wide range (you try speaking to the same person twice ever!), many of whom promised it would be sorted, it never was, they didn’t give a sh1te who had purchased the item or the impact of their actions. For the amount of they made on one item I know of at least two hundred staff, parents, friends, relatives etc etc who will not touch them with a barge pole.This occurred before the various revelations about their dealings so I wouldn’t use them now anyway, but they must have lost a couple of thousand in sales from myself alone.

[dave_bass5]

Ive sent loads of things back and never had an issue, even items costing £200+, but always items sold by Amazon themselves. Rarely do i use marketplace or fulfilled by Amazon. I can imagine more resistance to returning items from those, although still not had any issues. 

I do feel Amazon are clamping down a bit though. In the past  If my Prime orders weren’t delivered on time Id normally get on to them and after putting it on a bit id get an extra month of Prime and maybe £5 credit, but in the last year or so ive not had these offered to me. 

[SH73]

Amazon delivered my latest item under less than 10 hours. I can get on with my day off and always get notify when the parcel is 10 stops away.👍

[dmccombe7]

I like Bass Direct and service is great. GAK have also been excellent for me but I know one of the sales managers and I get great deals next day delivery. Used Guitar Guitar and that was ok but delivery was day later than next day but that was down to courier who decided no other deliveries in my area so it can wait a day. They are only 30 miles from me and I could have collected myself if I had known. Their tracking said out for delivery but when I called they told me real story. Used Thomson but the amp was knackered on arrival and I got hit with various bank charges. Not used them since but they were pretty good and helpful. Overall I’ve been happy with most shops but I use Amazon for loadsa stuff without many issues.

[Christine]

The thing that annoys me about Amazon Prime is you pay for Prime but then you have to pay more for the items that are Prime. Next day delivery is handy sometimes as well as the buy with one click that saves you filling in forms every time you buy something. To be fair to every dedicated guitar store I've used I've always had excellent service. Ironically the only one who I've had bother with is Bass Direct that let me down badly

[mikel]

7 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

And im sure not everyone declares their gig earnings, even if they should.

Aye, its easy to make excuses for Amazon to make ourselves feel better but the local shop cant get away with paying taxes, hence the decimation of the high street. Unfair competition is just that. Of course the Gov wont close the gaping loopholes, its the old boy network, and small business rarely qualifies.

[dave_bass5]

35 minutes ago, mikel said:

Aye, its easy to make excuses for Amazon to make ourselves feel better but the local shop cant get away with paying taxes, hence the decimation of the high street. Unfair competition is just that. Of course the Gov wont close the gaping loopholes, its the old boy network, and small business rarely qualifies.

Why cant the small business use the same loopholes as the large corporations? Just asking as i know nothing about all this. 

[fleabag]

Large Corps base their headquarters and tax affairs offshore from mainland UK and enjoy/exploit lower tax brackets.  Eire, Luxemberg etc.

Your local builders, bakers, and candlestick makers are just too small to be based offshore

What the rules should change to is that any company that sells goods here, should pay the same standard UK corporation tax as any other UK  based business.

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by fleabag

[Skinnyman]

I have no problem with Amazon setting up their corporate structure in such a way that they can have their different corporate entities lend each other money and thus move their profits to the most advantageous (to them) tax jurisdiction. 

Them’s the rules and if they’re not breaking the law then we should lobby to change the law rather than single out the Companies who use it to their advantage.

My gripe is with their employment practice. They’re not the only or worst offenders but that doesn’t mean they’re a decent company to work for. I recommend reading “Hired: 6 months working undercover in low-wage Britain” by James Bloodworth for a compelling and accurate insight into the various strategies that such companies use.

I don’t subscribe to his political views but I can attest to a lot of what he says from close personal experience. 

[Skinnyman]

34 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said:

Why cant the small business use the same loopholes as the large corporations? Just asking as i know nothing about all this. 

They can - but it would cost more than they’d get back. You need the economies of scale for it to work.

If a company (A) is in a high tax area (the UK, say), the basic trick is to set up a parent (B) in a low-tax area (Dublin, Luxembourg?) and cross-charge A lots of fees for Head Office services such as HR or PR or whatever. You make all of A’s departments cost centres with all the revenue going to the Parent entity. You can also have B load up A with a pile of debt that has to be serviced with interest charges.

All these “costs” reduce the profits of the subsidiary so they pay less tax at the high rate while B makes more profit on which they pay tax at a much, much lower rate.

There’s lots of other stunts and many variations on this theme but, as I understand it from someone who set up a Cayman Islands/Dublin/London-based structure to minimise corporation tax, that’s the general approach....

[NancyJohnson]

9 hours ago, Christine said:

The thing that annoys me about Amazon Prime is you pay for Prime but then you have to pay more for the items that are Prime. 

I'm sorry, but whaaaaaat?

[Christine]

 

44 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I'm sorry, but whaaaaaat?

Many things on Amazon have a notice under the price saying something like "available for less without Prime delivery". Have a search for stuff, Prime and non Prime and compare prices, loads of it is cheaper without

Edited July 9, 2019 by Christine

[bartelby]

18 minutes ago, Christine said:

Many things on Amazon have a notice under the price saying something like "available for less without Prime delivery". Have a search for stuff, Prime and non Prime and compare prices, loads of it is cheaper without

But then you have to pay for delivery, and that's where the seller makes the money back. Unless it's free delivery that takes a few days.

I've never found a non Prime item to have an overall cheaper price. Unless it's used, which doesn't count.

[Christine]

2 minutes ago, bartelby said:

But then you have to pay for delivery, and that's where the seller makes the money back. Unless it's free delivery that takes a few days.

I've never found a non Prime item to have an overall cheaper price. Unless it's used, which doesn't count.

Not always

[bartelby]

But that's a Prime item isn't it?

[Christine]

2 minutes ago, bartelby said:

But that's a Prime item isn't it?

Yes, I showed the wrong one