fleabag Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 4 hours ago, itsmedunc said: Don't get paid by PayPal! All he needs to do is say he hasn't received the bass and they will refund his money. It's happened to me before and PayPal paid the buyer out despite having proof of delivery to the right address. You will not be able to claim on any insurance either as of course a delivery company will have proof of delivery. Be very careful. What dunc said. 100% Old scam, but it catches people out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 Asked to be paid via PayPal but gifted rather than paying for goods to avoid fees, insist on it even if the scammer offers to pay the fees plus more on top. He won't gift it to you but it'll annoy him while you keep insisting on payment as a gift. 👹 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribbetingfrog Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 The onboard ship is a gumtree classic scam. I’ve sold a lot on gumtree and got similar messages regularly. as already said, he’ll use PayPal rules to stuff you royally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, Maude said: Asked to be paid via PayPal but gifted rather than paying for goods to avoid fees, insist on it even if the scammer offers to pay the fees plus more on top. He won't gift it to you but it'll annoy him while you keep insisting on payment as a gift. 👹 They could use a hacked PayPal account. My advice is whenever selling via Gumtree, only ever use cash on collection. They come, they try it, inspect it, pay cash and leave. Always have someone else in the house with you too. Edited July 6, 2019 by ambient 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 Blimey - I'm learning lots about PayPal here. If a Gumtree buyer can claim never to have received goods, and then be reimbursed fairly easily, where does that leave us paying for goods from other websites such as Preloved, Ebay, Facebook Marketplace, and Basschat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Just now, solo4652 said: Blimey - I'm learning lots about PayPal here. If a Gumtree buyer can claim never to have received goods, and then be reimbursed fairly easily, where does that leave us paying for goods from other websites such as Preloved, Ebay, Facebook Marketplace, and Basschat? You’re supposed to use a tracked means of delivery. The Gumtree scam works because they’re collecting it in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 18 hours ago, ambient said: You’re supposed to use a tracked means of delivery. The Gumtree scam works because they’re collecting it in person. Itsmedunc's experience seems to describe a case where delivery was to the correct address, and was signed for. No collection in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, solo4652 said: Itsmedunc's experience seems to describe a case where delivery was to the correct address, and was signed for. No collection in person. Indeed it was. Sent tracked and signed for. Evidence of a signature from that address too. PayPal said that I could not prove that the person who signed for it at that address was the same person who bought it. I got truly screwed that day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 On 05/07/2019 at 13:32, solo4652 said: Really!?. And there's me thinking that payment via PayPal would give me some protection... Paypal protects you sending stuff if you have proof of delivery to the registered card address. All other bets are off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: Paypal protects you sending stuff if you have proof of delivery to the registered card address. All other bets are off Unfortunately, I had proof of delivery but it didn't help in my case. I was asked to prove that the person who signed for it at that address was the true buyer? An absolutely impossible task. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, itsmedunc said: Unfortunately, I had proof of delivery but it didn't help in my case. I was asked to prove that the person who signed for it at that address was the true buyer? An absolutely impossible task. That's pretty worrying. Where does that leave us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 I think Basschat is the only place where I would send goods and use bank transfer, but still only with established members with a Marketplace history. I do sell on Gumtree, but only face to face for cash. I don't even give my address out. I give the address of a local supermarket car park and tell them to ring when they get there. They have ANPR and CCTV which is useful if skullduggery is on someones mind. If they want to look at the item and handle it that's fine, but I ask for the money in my pocket first. I've been asked 'don't you trust me?' to which I say you're a feller I've just met in a car park.. of course I don't trust you! With respect to the OP, it's so obvious this is nonsense, I find it odd that people are still asking about this. I was thinking though, couldn't you string the scammer along and send them a box of bricks or something? Sure they'll get their money back, but they'll also get a box of bricks. Come to think of it, I've got an old Armitage Shanks 'Dominator' model bog and cistern gathering weeds in the back garden. It's there because the local tip are now wanting £10 to take it in. Maybe some lucky person in South Africa could get it!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 38 minutes ago, itsmedunc said: Unfortunately, I had proof of delivery but it didn't help in my case. I was asked to prove that the person who signed for it at that address was the true buyer? An absolutely impossible task. How odd. My wife who uses PayPal in her shop has done tens of thousands of PayPal transactions, of which a few have claimed they didn't get it. All of them were judged in her favour when there were issues and she had proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, Billy Apple said: With respect to the OP, it's so obvious this is nonsense, I find it odd that people are still asking about this. I find it worse than odd, I find it a bit disturbing. For every guy asking about a scam on a forum and being warned off there have to be 10 guys who are just saying 'oh an extra £50, thats good' without thinking 'why would someone want to give me an extra £50 that I didn't ask for?'. Which means that these people must be hugely successful, to the point where there must be a load of guys for whom this is their sole living. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted July 7, 2019 Author Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) My original post was about a scam that was pretty obviously dodgy. I could see that, but I was gathering other people's views and experiences. Much more interesting is the information that's come to light about PayPal's (non)-protection. I've changed the topic title to reflect that. I'm sorry to appear pedantic, but I'd like to understand this as best I can, since I use PayPal fairly frequently. Let's say an item is sold via an online marketplace. The buyer pays for it upfront via PayPal. The seller organises and pays for a tracked courier. The item is duly delivered to the correct address, and is signed for. Then, the buyer claims not to have received the item and claims their money back from PayPal. Who is culpable? Who is responsible for the loss of the item, and for sorting things out? The seller? Should have been able to prove that the person who signed for the item was indeed the buyer? How does the seller do that? The courier? Should have been able to prove that the person who signed for the item was indeed the buyer? How does the courier do that? The buyer? Up to them to track down the item that was delivered to, and signed for, by somebody at the address they provided. Edited July 7, 2019 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: How odd. My wife who uses PayPal in her shop has done tens of thousands of PayPal transactions, of which a few have claimed they didn't get it. All of them were judged in her favour when there were issues and she had proof. I honestly cannot understand why they found in favour of the buyer in my case. I'm still a little dumbfounded over it. I know it got to the address, the courier knows it got there too. It was tracked and I was given an update when it was delivered. A signature was taken, I had a digital copy of it which I supplied in evidence. When they said I had to prove that it was signed for by the true buyer, I knew that was the end of it.. What else can anyone do to prove it was delivered? No more PayPal for me. I cancelled my account (which incidentally took ages to do as it said I had transactions pending, which I did not). Edited July 7, 2019 by itsmedunc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, solo4652 said: My original post was about a scam that was pretty obviously dodgy. I could see that, but I was gathering other people's views and experiences. Much more interesting is the information that's come to light about PayPal's (non)-protection. I'm sorry to appear pedantic, but I'd like to understand this as best I can, since I use PayPal fairly frequently. Let's say an item is sold via an online marketplace. The buyer pays for it upfront via PayPal. The seller organises and pays for a tracked courier. The item is duly delivered to the correct address, and is signed for. Then, the buyer claims not to have received the item and claims their money back from PayPal. Who is culpable? Who is responsible for the loss of the item, and for sorting things out? The seller? Should have been able to prove that the person who signed for the item was indeed the buyer? How does the seller do that? The courier? Should have been able to prove that the person who signed for the item was indeed the buyer? How does the courier do that? The buyer? Up to them to track down the item that was delivered to, and signed for, by somebody at the address they provided. Quote In my case, it all landed in my lap. The courier didn't want to know as they had proof it was delivered. The buyer was laughing as they got the goods and PayPal gave them their money back too! Unfortunately, I'm not the only one it has happened to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 I use PayPal a lot too but just to buy. Is bank transfer a better option ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) I had over 100 new kitchen tiles " go missing " from Ebay. I paid for the goods via PP. I was told by PP that they had proof of delivery from the courier. Trackable doesnt always mean a signature is required. The courier hits a few buttons on his courier pad to say the item has been delivered. Thats all PP / Ebay need. After a few weeks of messing around with messaging ( had to do it on Facebook with My hermes ) who denied everything. They dont have a customer line anymore ( no surprise ) so FB is the only way. In the end, i found out the courier had delivered the tiles to the Chinese Takeaway 30 yards away, who in fact never received the goods. I got so hacked off with the courier ( who probably stole them ) and the seller, who didnt give a hoot. and Ebay and PP who didnt a give a hoot either, so after about 7 weeks or so, i contacted my bank and got them to reverse the payment. Suddenly, PP took notice ... i paid twice because he only sold in bundles, and i needed 2 bundles to complete the job, but for some reason, PP only reversed one of the payments, and that caused more mayhem. But the bank of HSBC helped and i got all the money back, but only because i got my teeth sunk in like a Jack Russell with a rat. Bar stewards, the lot of 'em. Edited July 7, 2019 by fleabag 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said: I use PayPal a lot too but just to buy. Is bank transfer a better option ? It would seem a transfer is far better. I believe there is very little anyone can do with your details. At least you know you have the money and it cannot (as far as I am aware) be clawed back. I now ask folk to arrange their own courier too if they do not want to pick up in person. I know it puts some folk off but it seems to me that it's a far better option all round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 On 5 July 2019 at 13:22, itsmedunc said: Don't get paid by PayPal! All he needs to do is say he hasn't received the bass and they will refund his money. It's happened to me before and PayPal paid the buyer out despite having proof of delivery to the right address. You will not be able to claim on any insurance either as of course a delivery company will have proof of delivery. Be very careful. Does this still apply if he does it as a paypal gift people do this to avoid the fees but i thought you also lost paypal protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, gareth said: Does this still apply if he does it as a paypal gift people do this to avoid the fees but i thought you also lost paypal protection? I think a gift is different, or it used to be. I'd check it out on their website first as things may have changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggaebass Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 I’m sure I read once that a pp gift can also be reversed 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Reggaebass said: I’m sure I read once that a pp gift can also be reversed 🙂 A quick Google search implies that a gift can be disputed. It looks like some forms of funding e.g. credit cards, then the rules change and PayPal have to abide by credit card regulations which are different! Some folking twits must lie awake at night thinking of how to scam others. Grrrrr. Edited July 7, 2019 by itsmedunc 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 1 hour ago, itsmedunc said: It would seem a transfer is far better. I believe there is very little anyone can do with your details. Exactamundo. No one gives anything away by giving out bank details to someone for payment. Remember cheques ? Same details are on a cheque and we used to throw them at businesses and people like confetti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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