Jaco, this is why he's the uber-dude

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='358588' date='Dec 19 2008, 09:46 AM']He wasn't a junkie either, in fact his problems began when he STOPPED taking his medication. He was a diagnosed manic depressive.[/quote]


You knew him CK? I'm impressed.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358589' date='Dec 19 2008, 09:46 AM']But I lack the maturity to just say "not my cap of tea".

When I heard that clip I honestly thought it was one of those comedy vids where its overdubbed by someone making random noise. It's so self-indulgent it makes me want to climb a bell tower with a high-powered rifle.[/quote]
Yes I realise this but equally mate I'm too curmudgeonly to jst 'put it down to BBCs ways' you're a little gobsh*te and I will always say so

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='358592' date='Dec 19 2008, 09:50 AM']you're a little gobsh*te and I will always say so[/quote]

Agreed.


But back to Jaco. I can see that he was innovative, but its easy to be innovative. If I started playing my bass with a golf club and sewing machine, I'd be innovative too. Doesn't make it any good.

Also, what's wrong with the tone of his bass? Sounds more like a broken trumpet. As for hitting his strings to make a thud - what's wrong with a drummer?

I've never been a fan of solo bass though. I can appreciate that fella who looks like the Predator a bit. His tunes actually have a melody and I can see how people can tap their foot to it.

I put Jaco in the same camp as that tosser Jeff Buckley. An early death creates the legend.

[katana_manatee]

I've been a fan of Jaco for a good few years now but I've always thought that was one of his lesser performances of slang.

You can't really judge the man based on that solo, it is rubbish compared to what he was capable of. He can bring about such beauty in his playing like in Havona, Continuum (that tone!), his playing with Joni on Hejira, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus and gotta love his solo on (Used To Be) A Cha Cha.

He was already a legend before he died and really turned people on to what could be done with a bass melodically and technically. He did a lot of great recordings but there is also a lot of not so good noodly live solos out there which really don't reflect his playing properly at all.

[BigBeefChief]

I really like the bass playing on "Come on, come over". That's a quality tune. I just don't understand how that can come from the same person who makes that noise on stage.

[katana_manatee]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358633' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:00 AM']I really like the bass playing on "Come on, come over". That's a quality tune. I just don't understand how that can come from the same person who makes that noise on stage.[/quote]

He was a complicated guy to say the least and his mental illness did not help. When he had a good day he had a GOOD day but he would also have a lot of bad days too, especially in his later years.

The only performance of slang I really enjoyed was when he played with Weather Report at the Offenbach in '78 I think. It is on youtube somewhere...

But yeah, he could come out with some random noise sometimes too. This solo was okay I thought for noodling but not one of his finest moment imho.

You might wanna check out a tune like continuum next to hear some lovely melodic playing from his first solo album with a lovely solo.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='katana_manatee' post='358641' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:13 AM']You might wanna check out a tune like continuum next to hear some lovely melodic playing from his first solo album with a lovely solo.[/quote]


I will look when I get home. Can't listen at work.

If it's anything that could be described as "Jazz" or its kiddy-fiddling cousin "Fusion", then I'm setting fire to my face.

[lowdown]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358647' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:21 AM']I will look when I get home. Can't listen at work.

If it's anything that could be described as "Jazz" or its kiddy-fiddling cousin "Fusion", then I'm setting fire to my face.[/quote]

You might need to buy a Zippo on your way home.
Good stuff though.



Garry

[RayFW]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358647' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:21 AM']I will look when I get home. Can't listen at work.

If it's anything that could be described as "Jazz" or its kiddy-fiddling cousin "Fusion", then I'm setting fire to my face.[/quote]
Better get the lighter fluid out.

EDIT: Beaten to it :-D

Edited December 19, 2008 by rayfw

[Johngh]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358589' date='Dec 19 2008, 09:46 AM']But I lack the maturity to just say "not my cup of tea".

When I heard that clip I honestly thought it was one of those comedy vids where its overdubbed by someone making random noise. It's so self-indulgent it makes me want to climb a bell tower with a high-powered rifle.[/quote]


Not climb a bell tower and holler "Esmerelda"

[katana_manatee]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358647' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:21 AM']I will look when I get home. Can't listen at work.

If it's anything that could be described as "Jazz" or its kiddy-fiddling cousin "Fusion", then I'm setting fire to my face.[/quote]

It is kinda jazzy but not typical jazz which might induce earache in those not used to it, very melodic.

If you wanna hear him play something non-jazzy which is just gorgeous then check out his playing on the tune Hejira by Joni Mitchell. Just type that into youtube and click on the one which shows the album cover. Just gorgeous fretless melodies and chords but definately not Jazz.

I'm in work too so I know the feeling!

[ARGH]

Jaco is dead

Percy Jones ISNT
neither is Mick Karn.

Both are better.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358633' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:00 AM']I really like the bass playing on "Come on, come over". That's a quality tune. I just don't understand how that can come from the same person who makes that noise on stage.[/quote]
+1.

With Weather Report, he's excellent.

With Joni, he's excellent.

Even [i]some[/i] of his solo stuff, excellent.

But the OP's clip, absolutely awful. Embarrassingly awful.

[Toasted]

Victor Wooten - can't stand that guy.

[ARGH]

[quote name='Toasted' post='358676' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:45 AM']Victor Wooten - can't stand that guy.[/quote]
Yeah,if you dont buy the special tripod extension pack that should accompany him,he's ALWAYS falling over.

[Toasted]

He'll be here all week, guys.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='ARGH' post='358673' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:44 AM']neither is Mick Karn.[/quote]


Chaka's brother?

[ARGH]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358686' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:50 AM']Chaka's brother?[/quote]
Not quite,its his stagename,but the AJ link is good.

Now Anthony Jackson,theres a REAL innovative player...still doing his thang.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358647' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:21 AM']I will look when I get home. Can't listen at work.

If it's anything that could be described as "Jazz" or its kiddy-fiddling cousin "Fusion", then I'm setting fire to my face.[/quote]



Thanks BBC. The bottom just fell out of my world yesterday but you've still managed to make me laugh. I thank you!

[bremen]

[quote name='Huge Hands' post='358690' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:55 AM']

Thanks BBC. The bottom just fell out of my world yesterday but you've still managed to make me laugh. I thank you![/quote]

+1, BBC is what's needed in these dark days.

Huge, hope you get your world re-bottomed.

[Prosebass]

Hang your heads in shame all you non believers, Jaco was and still is the most melodic, innovative and out there bassist to have walked the planet, although maybe slang is not the best example of his playing.

There will be no Christmas for all doubters , I've told Santa where you all live. Shame , shame ,shame.

[Cantdosleepy]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358455' date='Dec 19 2008, 12:26 AM']If a musician is only liked by people who play that instrument, stay well clear.[/quote]

I've found this to be the case, with the usual caveats.

Jaco, Wooten, Bailey, Sheehan, Willis, Berlin; none of them are my cup of tea.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='358700' date='Dec 19 2008, 12:01 PM']There will be no Christmas for all doubters , I've told Santa where you all live. Shame , shame ,shame. [/quote]


Looks like my Christmas was already cancelled given the fact I was off to Vegas but the snow there has meant the airport has been shut for 2 days.


I blame Jaco.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358601' date='Dec 19 2008, 10:01 AM']But back to Jaco. I can see that he was innovative, but its easy to be innovative. If I started playing my bass with a golf club and sewing machine, I'd be innovative too. Doesn't make it any good.[/quote]

Innovation without reason or advantage tends to fail - look at the Sinclair C5!

As a Jaco fan I would never point a non-believer towards any of his solo performances - yeah, they're pretty clever/cool/whatever but they're still pretty 'whatever'... Instead listen to "The Dry Cleaner From Des Moines" off the Joni Mitchell album "Mingus". Jaco plays the baddest funk part on that session and he also scored the horn arrangement the previous night, having never done any horn arranging before. Hopefully there's enough impurity in the jazz in there that jazzophobes can appreciate it. Another similar example is Soul Intro / The Chicken, off Jaco's big band live album "Invitation".

Weather Report's album "Heavy Weather" contains some of Jaco's finest performances but for anyone who isn't into jazz it's likely to be way too '70s jazz fusion with a hefty dollop of synth and sax cheese. Jaco's eponymous debut album doesn't have the cheese but it is way too complex for jazzophobes - when I first heard it (and many times afterwards) the bass/conga duet on "Donna Lee" just sounded like mindless widdling. Pat Metheny's album "Bright Size Life" is also held up as a great Jaco album but it's just so gentle and ethereal and totally lacking in Jaco's trademark badassness.

So why was Jaco the uber-dude? Not merely his innovation, soloing, clever jazz sh*t, etc. It was his badass attitude, the swagger and confidence he imbued his music with, the sheer aggression and fire in his playing. Personally I find the whole "Invitation" album the finest summary of Jaco, just as "Sinatra At The Sands" is the finest example of what Sinatra was about - both characters of many imperfect facets who played the music like every note was their last. Those live recordings capture the essence of their hard swinging, heartfelt and melancholy yet uplifting, powerful and inclusive music - jazz as it was meant to be, not for polo-necked critics but for the people. They were punkass m*****f***ers who lived it.

The worst thing about Jaco is the hordes of pale imitators he spawned - clever jazz dudes that can blow over Giant Steps like it's a 12 bar and skitter through 16th note grooves like they think they're super-Rocco but they do it all with no balls, no soul, no meaning. Blaming Jaco for those (not bad) cats is like blaming Hendrix for Yngwie Malmsteem.

Alex

[thebeat]

I love Jaco...but then again i have propensity for liking the lame dogs and misfits of this world.