Jaco, this is why he's the uber-dude

[thebeat]

[quote name='Toasted' post='358676' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:45 AM']Victor Wooten - can't stand that guy.[/quote]


+1...anybody that nice has got to be sus...gimme Jaco and his arrogance any day of the week.

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='thebeat' post='358716' date='Dec 19 2008, 12:27 PM']+1...anybody that nice has got to be sus...gimme Jaco and his arrogance any day of the week.[/quote]


Jaco was no doubt much better to go out on the piss with, but in a bass solo context, I prefer the Predator. At least I can hear the tune he's playing.


The Predator does a really lame cheesey cover of Amazing Grace (I think) - its lame and cheesey, but you can tell waht it is.

[lemmywinks]

+1 on the soul intro/the chicken and dry cleaner... basslines, not OTT at all, just full of cool phrasing and ace melodies. I'm a particular fan of his earlier (pre WR) stuff too, when he played with guys like little beaver and wayne cochran's cc riders, there's loads of solid grooving and not as much widdling.

However i'll try to find a clip of a dvd i have where he's playing with a trombone player and a drummer. It's unwatchable! Jazz at it's most embarrassing!

EDIT: Can't find one, it's off Live in Germany i think. But don't buy it. Ever.

Edited December 19, 2008 by lemmywinks

[KevB]

Although I respect him as a player and an artist I've never really got into Jaco in a big way, in fact I hardly ever play his solo album. I like some Weather Report but I've always liked his work on Joni's albums, even when he's not doing very much the songs would be diminished without him for sure.

[artisan]

sorry but i'm not impressed at all,mind i'm not a Jaco fan either.
somebody once gave me a Jaco cd to listen to & i tried to like it but to me it was just a load of self indulgent sh*te.

[GreeneKing]

[quote]Hang your heads in shame all you non believers, Jaco was and still is the most melodic, innovative and out there bassist to have walked the planet, although maybe slang is not the best example of his playing.

There will be no Christmas for all doubters , I've told Santa where you all live. Shame , shame ,shame.[/quote]

+ 1000 and I don't need convincing.

It's all very well saying that so and so is now better but that's totally missing the point of Jaco. I've got Weather Report's 'Heavy Weather' in the car at the mo and I have a very open and wide musical appreciation but this is sublime bass playing in terms of feel, timing and sheer construction. He didn't just 'raise the bar', he invented the sport.

That's what I fink anyway.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='358709' date='Dec 19 2008, 12:19 PM']The worst thing about Jaco is the hordes of pale imitators he spawned - clever jazz dudes that can blow over Giant Steps like it's a 12 bar and skitter through 16th note grooves like they think they're super-Rocco but they do it all with no balls, no soul, no meaning. Blaming Jaco for those (not bad) cats is like blaming Hendrix for Yngwie Malmsteem.

Alex[/quote]

+1 to that

It tends to be the same with a lot of pioneering musicians, in a band situation with equally proficient musicians they shine. But leave them to solo and it all goes Pete Tong.......I mean come on even bassists can tire of listening to bass solos...unless they are into "Jazz"
And who wants to sound like someone else ? The thing is nobody sounded like Jaco before him and those who try to imitate may be playing the notes but they haven't got the soul.

[acidbass]

[quote name='artisan' post='358777' date='Dec 19 2008, 01:18 PM']sorry but i'm not impressed at all,mind i'm not a Jaco fan either.
somebody once gave me a Jaco cd to listen to & i tried to like it but to me it was just a load of self indulgent sh*te.[/quote]

I should think that's to be expected of most musician's solo albums

I've never listened to Jaco in a band context before, having only bought his eponymous first album. I don't consider myself a fan of Jazz music at all, but it's definitely worth a listen if you're a bass player.

Those performances with Joni Mitchell on Youtube are really superb by the way, cheers for the links guys!

[The Funk]

From my earlier post I might have made it seem like I'm not a Jaco fan. I am. But that solo was not a solo. It was an incoherent series of widdles.

I know a few people have said that a lot of great instrumentalists' solo material is not usually very good but I think people should check out Jaco's first album before they check out anything else. It shows a broad range of him as a bass player and composer. He wrote a Sam & Dave R&B number, a funky fusion number with Herbie Hancock with a great string arrangement, some Latin things, a few innovative bass compositions (that sound cool because of the notes not just the technique) and played a Charlie Parker tune on bass. Even if some things just don't really do it for you (Donna Lee does nothing for me, for example), there still should be things you like.

It's a very cool album but the ones that made me realise how much of a groove monster and rock player he was were a series of 4 live CDs. I'll dig them out and put more details up here later

[andyonbass]

He sings too!
I reckon this is great, but lose interest when the drum solo starts, and again during his bass solo

[bremen]

Here's a Jaco performance that even BBC would appreciate:

[url="http://tinyurl.com/jacoforbbc"]http://tinyurl.com/jacoforbbc[/url]

[alexclaber]

I was just looking for that!

No footage but here's Soul Intro / The Chicken from Invitation:



Alex

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='katana_manatee' post='358667' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:41 AM']If you wanna hear him play something non-jazzy which is just gorgeous then check out his playing on the tune Hejira by Joni Mitchell. Just type that into youtube and click on the one which shows the album cover. Just gorgeous fretless melodies and chords but definately not Jazz.[/quote]

Couldn't listen to it until the end. The tune was too painful.

I just don't like the tone of his bass. I like a dull thud.

Also, I know all you oldies like fretless bass, but you've got to understand that us youngsters associate the sound of a fretless with people who go to Paul Young gigs and call their bird "my partner". It just sounds so dated (dated bad, not dated good).

[Soulfinger]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='358747' date='Dec 19 2008, 01:49 PM']i'll try to find a clip of a dvd i have where he's playing with a trombone player and a drummer. It's unwatchable! Jazz at it's most embarrassing![/quote]
Didn´t know there was a DVD of the event but the album is "Trilogue" with Albert Mangelsdorff and Alphonse Mouzon, live at the Berlin Jazz Fest in 1976.

IMO one of the finest recordings Jaco ever did.

Ah - found some vids:
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-_CYOng4k&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pB-_CYOng4k...feature=related[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzBMW1LoPp0&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzBMW1LoPp0...feature=related[/url]
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLbOTgxJBQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvLbOTgxJBQ[/url]

Never been a fan of Slang either TBH...

[katana_manatee]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358967' date='Dec 19 2008, 05:06 PM']Couldn't listen to it until the end. The tune was too painful.

I just don't like the tone of his bass. I like a dull thud.

Also, I know all you oldies like fretless bass, but you've got to understand that us youngsters associate the sound of a fretless with people who go to Paul Young gigs and call their bird "my partner". It just sounds so dated (dated bad, not dated good).[/quote]

Fair enough, it can take a while to get used to Jazz, at first I hated it and slowly came round to it and now I love it.

I love fretless bass but I'm only 21. Maybe I am just 50 in spirit?

[BigBeefChief]

[quote name='katana_manatee' post='358974' date='Dec 19 2008, 05:12 PM']Fair enough, it can take a while to get used to Jazz[/quote]


Like anal sex I suppose.

I wonder if Carol Vorderman likes Jazz?

[The Funk]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358967' date='Dec 19 2008, 05:06 PM']Also, I know all you oldies like fretless bass, but you've got to understand that us youngsters associate the sound of a fretless with people who go to Paul Young gigs and call their bird "my partner". It just sounds so dated (dated bad, not dated good).[/quote]

Classic!

The coollest fretless line I've heard is not by Jaco but his predecessor in Weather Report, Alphonso Johnson, on [i]Cucumber Slumber[/i]. I've been trying to rip it off for years!

[4000]

I'm not a huge Jaco fan, although I appreciate his talent. For me (as I believe someone mentioned earlier) his greatest talent as a player was his rhythmic sense and his ability to groove. My favourite playing by him would be tracks like Okonkole Y Trompa etc, where he plays repetitive figures. I particularly love the live Badia/Boogie Woogie Waltz Medley off 7:30; lots of space, and then he goes into that manic repetitive figure in the middle.

Never been much of a fan of his tone though and I feel he played a lot of "licks" when you listen to him live. What I will say is he has been a huge influence on 2 of my favourite bassists, Stu Zender and Richard Bona, amongst probably countless others.

I bought his debut in about '82 after first hearing about him, and my dad bought me Stanley Clarke's Brown Album at the same time. I was more interested in Jaco and less interested in Stanley; boy did that change after I actually listened to the 2 albums! I also think Stan has been rather sidelined since Jaco has died; when I first started they were both still alive and they were generally considered neck and neck as bass innovators/giants, whereas now it appears to be "Jaco this" and "Jaco that" with no mention of Stan at all which I find a little sad.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='andyonbass' post='358904' date='Dec 19 2008, 03:48 PM']He sings too!
I reckon this is great, but lose interest when the drum solo starts, and again during his bass solo


[/quote]

Y'see, solos aside - that's fab... Jaco was great when he was playing good tunes.

Edited December 19, 2008 by wateroftyne

[alexclaber]

Finally listened to the whole of that rendition of Fannie Mae. Was all going so well until the drummer decided he'd just forget the groove for his solo and then Jaco took bass soloing to a new low... Ah well, at least he doesn't half groove well even when he's singing, I guess nobody's perfect!

Alex

[ARGH]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='358967' date='Dec 19 2008, 05:06 PM']Also, I know all you oldies like fretless bass, but you've got to understand that us youngsters associate the sound of a fretless with people who go to Paul Young gigs and call their bird "my partner". It just sounds so dated (dated bad, not dated good).[/quote]


Same with me and chorus,It reeks of 82 and too much hairspray.

Sean,the thing is Fretless has SO many many social flaws,and has that SAAB driver sneer thing,so few players actually transcend that,and no-ones done it to any degree in Indie/Modrock.

Its why I liked Japan,the lines were original. (see I didnt say 'Phrasing')

[Prosebass]

[quote name='ARGH' post='359055' date='Dec 19 2008, 06:55 PM']Same with me and chorus,It reeks of 82 and too much hairspray.

Sean,the thing is Fretless has SO many many social flaws,and has that SAAB driver sneer thing,so few players actually transcend that,and no-ones done it to any degree in Indie/Modrock.

Its why I liked Japan,the lines were original. (see I didnt say 'Phrasing')[/quote]

Now don't start slagging off "chorus" all the best fretless players use it apart from Percy.....who used a weird pedal that I think was called a "funny cat" or "funky cat" maybe thats another thread.

I'm sure the BBC will see the light soon and be secretly buying a fretless bass and a chorus pedal off me and changing his name to Sean Palladino.... come to the dark side ......

Edited December 19, 2008 by Prosebass

[BassMunkee]

Sorry - but it leaves me cold.
Heretical as it may be it's just some aimless noodling - largely without any real point to it, it seems to me.
To be honest he might as well be tuning up.
Sorry but I just don't get it, and that's no diss on you guys that do.

However...
If you wanna a real man play the bass, check this out: [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7_wGFfrJv4Y"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7_wGFfrJv4Y[/url]

[bassbluestew]

As an aside, did anyone pick up on the yoube clips with Manhattan T'fer Birdland clips where there is a raging argument regarding who wrote Birdland........many claim it was MT and not WR after all.
Comments?

[The Funk]

I hate chorus. f***ing detest it. Seriously.