GK/Hartke/SomethingElse upgrade advice

[Al Heeley]

My Marshall Bassline 150W (1 x 15) is suffering from louder gigs and bigger venues, it has to be cranked right up to max to hold its own these days. I need an upgrade.
I have about £500 budget and would like a 300 - 400W head, a 2 x 10 cab and a 1 x 15 cab. Been looking at the hartke gear which fits the bill on the specs (if you go for the older VX cabs with paper cones and higher power rating than the 200W XL cabs) maybe the HA3500A head, which seems very popular. However, I've read some really poor reviews about the Hartke cabs, both XL, VX, 115 and 210 cabs which has put me right off.
If I go for a cheaper Hartke setup, the 2500 head with 210XL cab and 115XL cab will give me 250W but is that enough of an upgrade? Should I spend another £120 and get the 3500A head with the VX speakers, or do I go by the poor reviews and leave Hartke cabs well alone?

How does GK gear compare? I can get the GK 600 backline head (300W) + 210 BLX and 115 BLX cabs (200w a piece) for £500.

Next option: Ashdown Mag 300H EvoII head plus Mag 115 cab plus Mag 210 cab for £560 ?

Any other suggestions for this sort of line up and under £550 ?

Edited December 18, 2008 by Al Heeley

[bassmansky]

you will need 300w at least imo.best thing is to go to a store and try as many as you can as you will get an idea of the sound youre after.but what you do hear instore will probably sound different at a gig so bear that in mind.buying new isnt always the best option though,there is a lot of very good secondhand gear you could buy on your budget and get more watts per pound as well!im sure their will be some great deals about in the new year so good luck.

[stingrayfan]

Buy secondhand. Take a punt on a 300w+ head and a 4x10 cab. Gig it and see what you like. You can then always swap out one element. Stick with known brands and you'll be fine. Bear in mind that two cabs will take a lot of space in your car and are over the top for most pub gigs. 1 cab's fine. Or get a beefy combo.

[lemmywinks]

I've got a 4x10XL cab for sale for £190. That includes a quality lead and cover (£15 and £30+ respectively).
It's 400w @ 8ohms and is in mint condition.
It's the original USA built version too (they're made in China now)

Also got a VX215 (2x15" cab) for £90, a bit tatty but very sturdy. 500w @ 4ohms with quality lead.

Sorry to keep hijacking threads trying to sell stuff but needs must!

LINK:
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=25107&st=20&gopid=358403&#entry358403"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...mp;#entry358403[/url]


Also people have very different opinions of Hartke gear, i always liked it (i've owned 4 cabs and 2 heads, using them in all different configurations, plus a practice amp which i still use). Also after hearing my stack my housemate went out and bought a kickback combo. I did loads of gigs with Hartke gear and was always impressed with it, just got rid of the stack as needed to downsize.

Ta

Steve

Edited December 18, 2008 by lemmywinks

[bass_ferret]

Hartke is a bit marmite and I have heard the VX cabs not sounding great. The new LH500 is really good VFM but its sound is not to everyones taste. But I have never seen anything bad about GK other than its a bit on the heavy side.

Dont automatically assume you need a 1x15/2x10 stack. 4x10's can be really great and 2x2x10's is a 4x10 in easy to use (any pay for) installments.

[Al Heeley]

Any opinions on Warwick heads and cabs or Ashdown?

[Delberthot]

I had an Ashdown setup with an ABM500 RC EVO II something or other head and it sounded wooly and indistinct at best. I also managed to blow one of the drivers while using one of the cabs as a monitor at relatively low volume.

I love Gallien Krueger. I am now on my second one. I had an 800RB and sold it in a fit of stupidity. Bought the Ashdown then a Hartke HA5500 but neither were a patch on the GK so I went out and bought a 700RB II and I absolutely love it.

They are very punchy, easy to operate amps and are tough as nails. They can do clean but have a fantastic valve emulation circuit in them that doesn't overdrive but gives a lovely warm growl.

If you want an amazing amp then this is it:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33801"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=33801[/url]

I'm only selling it as I've found somewhere that has the new digital GK head in stock and want to get it before it goes. I also transport the lights and the power amps so am trying to go as small and light as I can otherwise the amp would be staying with me


Doesn't leave a lot left over for a cab but you won't need anything any other amp. I regularly use this with my Schroeder 1212L as a monitor and also to provide my out front sound and it has never let me down. I've never come close to making it clip.

I would say something like a trace 4x10" or even the Hartke mentioned previously would do the job and you should be able to get amp and cab within your budget

Edited December 19, 2008 by Delberthot

[Al Heeley]

Thanks its a tempting offer but its at the upper envelope and as you say it leaves very little for a decent cab bearing in mind I'd have to go for a better cab to handle the GK700's extra power. I'd rather shop around for a less powerful amp and then maybe I can afford a 2 x 10 and a 1 x 15 to drive.

[ianrunci]

I would recommend an Ashdown Mag 300 as a budget head. you can pick them up for under £200. I know a lot of people don't like them on here but I thought mine sounded great so its obviously down to personal taste. Try before you buy is the key.

As for cabs I used a Hartke 2x10XL and an Ashdown Mag 1x15 and got a great sound. You can pick them up pretty cheap as well if you shop around

[JakeBrownBass]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=34477&pid=358569&st=0&#entry358569"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...mp;#entry358569[/url]

Will last you forever and will use all the power of your amp

[bass_ferret]

And dont forget anyone else's idea of a great sound may not be the same as yours - so do try before you buy if at all possible. Go to your local gigs and see what you like the sound of.

[Rich]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='358634' date='Dec 19 2008, 11:02 AM']And dont forget anyone else's idea of a great sound may not be the same as yours - so do try before you buy if at all possible. Go to your local gigs and see what you like the sound of.[/quote]


[quote name='Al Heeley' post='358478' date='Dec 19 2008, 12:53 AM']Any opinions on... Ashdown?[/quote]
Yes. Bleucchhh.

[Pikefloyd]

Concerning GK, I would recommend spending a bit extra and buying from the Artist series, rather than the Backline series you mention in your original post.

[Al Heeley]

I'm slowly narrowing down the options with the money available. Your views on the following options would be appreciated:

[b]Head:[/b]
GK 600 Backline (or Artist?)
Hartke LH500
Hartke 3500A
Peavey Tour 450
Ashdown Mag 300 Evo II
Warwick ProFet 3.2

[b]Cabs:[/b]
GK 210 + 115 BLX (Backline)
Hartke VX or XL 210 + 115 cabs
Ashdown Mag 210 + 115 Evo cabs
Peavey TVX 210 + 115 cabs
Warwick WCA 211 + 115 Pro - (each £100 dearer than the other cabs)

Which would you go for, and why?
Any others not on the list I shoul dbe considering?

[Delberthot]

I've used Peavey cabs in the past and they are really good. I had a 4x10" from just before they changed the logo.

I've just found this and its an absolute steal at this price

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEAVEY-4x10-700-WATT-BASS-cab-DEAL_W0QQitemZ380083525280QQihZ025QQcategoryZ58719QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PEAVEY-4x10-700-WATT...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

Pair that with the GK 700RB II and you're all set at £5 over your £500 budget

[Stan_da_man]

Mind, (old) Peavey cabs weigh half a ton.

I'd go for the Peavey Tour 450. I have one and it's a very good head. Out the cabs listed I would go for the Hartke VX's.

[alexclaber]

One thing to bear in mind is that one really good cab can equal the output of two less good cabs, whilst costing no more and being a lot easier to carry. Don't assume all 2x10" and 1x15" cabs are equal!

Alex

[bass_ferret]

You seem determined to get a 1x15 and a 2x10. Would you mind explainging why

[Rich]

Aye. I had Nemesis 2x10 and 1x15 cabs up until a while ago, when I swapped the 2x10 for another 1x15. The sound of the two 1x15s is loads better. 2x10+1x15 is not the be all and end all. It's definitely worth checking out other speaker configs (considered 12s at all?).

[Merton]

The sound of two 1x15s is a joy to behold

[Al Heeley]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='358878' date='Dec 19 2008, 03:17 PM']You seem determined to get a 1x15 and a 2x10. Would you mind explainging why [/quote]
My reasoning is that a 4 x 10 is big and harder to cart about. A 2 x 10 gives you the punch from the 10" speakers in a nice small unit, and the 1 x 15 fills out the lower frequencies with more solidity. Having 2 smaller cabs make hauling around easier.
I can get a 2 x 10 now and gig with it while I save up for a 1 x 15. i just feel a mix of speaker sizes ticks all the boxes for frequency and presence.

[quote]Don't assume all 2x10" and 1x15" cabs are equal![/quote]
That's the reason behind collecting opinions from you more experienced guys. I've heard some people rave about the Hartke cabs yet others think they are cheap chinese poor build quality with lacklustre performance. As yet i have no way of judging all these differetn cabs except for opinions and prices.

To be honest a single 4 x 10 cab would be a simpler and cheaper option. My current 1 x 15 lacks the punch. If the concensus of opinion is that a 2 x 10 cab is sort of middle-ground and doesn't really do well at one thing or another, then maybe I stick to a 4 x 10 now and get a 1 x 15 later if I need it.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='359042' date='Dec 19 2008, 06:39 PM']A 2 x 10 gives you the punch from the 10" speakers in a nice small unit, and the 1 x 15 fills out the lower frequencies with more solidity.[/quote]

That's certainly the commonly held yet incorrect wisdom. The reality is that it's completely dependent on the specific cabs - my old 2x10" cabs had more bottom than almost any 15" whilst my new smaller 1x15" cab has more punch than the vast majority of 2x10"s (and can play louder and move more air). My larger 15" cab has more bottom and more punch than any 4x10" I know of (but that's a big expensive beastie!) If you find a cab that works well for you but it doesn't play loud enough, adding another matching cab is often the best solution.

I've been trying to work out a good way of explaining about mixing and matching cabs. Say we can describe cab A as producing an output of 7 in the lows 9 in the mids and 8 in the highs, whilst cab B produces 8 in the lows 8 in the mids and 4 in the highs. You might think that combining the two will we you 15 in the lows 17 in the mids and 12 in the highs because the outputs just add up. But it isn't like that - because the cabs are different some of the output adds but some of it subtracts. So the pairing might more likely get you 13 in the lows 14 in the mids and 11 in the highs - and you never know until you test the pairing. But if you get two of cab A then the outputs will totally add, no subtraction at all - so 14 in the lows, 18 in the mids and 16 in the highs. So even though cab B might have more bottom than cab A, adding cab B to cab A might not give you as much bottom as adding cab A to cab A. Likewise although cab A has more mids than cab B, adding cab A to cab B might not actually get you more mids than adding another cab B to cab B. Strange but true!

Regarding the amps I'd recommend the Hartke LH500, I think it's incredible for the money. I've yet to be impressed by any cheaper cabs, it's harder to make electro-mechanical devices work as well as purely electrical devices with such a restricted budget - but then again I would say that, I make cabs!

Alex

[Al Heeley]

I really appreciate all this feedback, guys. Sorry to keep rattling on...Going by the above comments am I better off going for a 410 cab on its own rather than mixing a 210 and a 115? Getting both together is pushing the budget, maybe I can spend a little more on the head then.
If I were to go with the LH500, then I guess the VX410 cab at 400W would be the obvious matching cab (or the XL alu cone equivalent). But these fit into the 'cheap cab' bracket . .
[quote]I've yet to be impressed by any cheaper cabs..[/quote]
so what would you recommend as a good partner to the LH500 head?

[johnnylager]

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='359157' date='Dec 19 2008, 08:56 PM']so what would you recommend as a good partner to the LH500 head?[/quote]
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13344&hl="]These.[/url]

[RussFM]

[quote name='Pikefloyd' post='358770' date='Dec 19 2008, 01:13 PM']Concerning GK, I would recommend spending a bit extra and buying from the Artist series, rather than the Backline series you mention in your original post.[/quote]

Agree 100%. I've never looked into it, but I'm sure you can pick up a 700RB and a cab within budget. But like others say, do you need a 2x10 and 1x15? I'd always had a 4x10 and 1x15, but dropped the 1x15 for smaller gigs. Came to realise I preferred not lugging that extra cab around and was after a 4ohm 4x10, until I tried the Neo 212. Gave me everything I was looking for with the added bonus of not needing help to carry my cab up the stairs at every venue!

Edited December 19, 2008 by RussFM