Boss SY-1

[AlphaK]

59 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Thanks. I still learn new stuff all the time. Working on the new v3 manual for the FI made me discover a nugget of information I’d overlooked before.

That sounds awesome!

I'm likely to only have budget to get one top notch bass synth pedal for now and I'm kinda leaning towards the Boss SY-1 for all the positive reasons that Woodinblack has touched on, with his excellent initial review above. It's also 1/3 the price of its predecessor, the Boss SY-300, which I understand its based on.

But if I was to get one of the other two "front runners" the C4 or the FI, instead, which one would recommend and why? Be really helpful to get a steer from someone who knows what they are talking about!

[Woodinblack]

 

5 minutes ago, AlphaK said:

 It's also 1/3 the price of its predecessor, the Boss SY-300, which I understand its based on.

Yeh, that was what I was considering before the SY1 came out, and then the GI-10 but that was non bass. I was almost considering going back to the GR5 or maybe even a VB-99, although they are a bit like rocking horse leftovers

5 minutes ago, AlphaK said:

But if I was to get one of the other two "front runners" the C4 or the FI, instead, which one would recommend and why? Be really helpful to get a steer from someone who knows what they are talking about!

I was interested briefly in the C4 until I found out it was mono, but I really needed a poly pedal, I don't want to do just basslines, otherwise it would be interesting.

The FI was also interesting but too expensive for me when it came out.

3 hours ago, AlphaK said:

Am I right in thinking you've also got a Helix HX from a comment I saw on another thread (I might be getting confused here, there's a lot of stuff I've been trying to catch up on!).

Nope, that is what I am currently gigging with. For other reasons I might be going for the zoom G3n for the bass, so I can use the HX for other things.

3 hours ago, AlphaK said:

From what I understand that has pretty much the same effects sims as the Stomp. How do you find the synth sims on the HX / how do they compare to the SY-1?

Yes, apart from the guitar amps and number of blocks it is the same. The sims are ok and better than the mono pedals I had before like the SYB-5 and behringer copies of it, but nothing like this.

3 hours ago, AlphaK said:

Really looking forward to your further recordings when you get a chance to do them. Btw what interface / DAW are you using to do your sound clips?

Well, that video was my phone balanced on my piano, but normally I use a combination, either the B3/B3n, the Stealth pedal if I am practicing or the Behringer UMC202HD U-Phoria interface, which is connected but I haven't yet used.

When I do some proper videos I think the U-Phoria would be the best choice, then I don't have to have anything else in the signal path.

[Al Krow]

Playing catch up with Woody, but mine's also now arrived and is sitting snugly on my pedal-board, which is kinda feeling finally there or thereabouts - famous last words I know!

Initial impressions of SY-1 are very positive - can't believe how well this thing tracks! And just like the three Ibby SRs I now have in my herd, this particular pedal is a result of another Woody thread. ZERO complaints from me, though, about any of that!  

[Quatschmacher]

4 hours ago, AlphaK said:

But if I was to get one of the other two "front runners" the C4 or the FI, instead, which one would recommend and why? Be really helpful to get a steer from someone who knows what they are talking about!

Depends what you want from it. I still think the FI is capable of way better sound shaping than the C4, especially now that v3 has full ADSR control (my constant nagging paid off). The C4 has the advantage of a slick interface for auditioning and saving sounds whereas the FI is still a bit clunky in comparison (though I’m hopeful of some improvement in a post-v3 release and have made suggestions which didn’t fall on deaf ears). C4 has a bigger range of filter types but for envelope control, oscillator options and parameter routing possibilities, the FI blows C4 away.

Both have great tracking.

I do enjoy both though but if I absolutely could only choose one, I personally would choose the FI.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Quatschmacher

[AlphaK]

Thanks for all that info Woodinblack and Quatschmacher - really appreciate it.

From the comments so far, the SY-1 feels like it's going to be my first choice, given its ease of use, compact form factor as can be seen on Al Krow's board, and the fact that it is fair bit cheaper than both the C4 and FI.

But based on what Quatschmacher said that on a bunch of key matters the FI blows the C4 away, the FI would seem to be the one to go for next. Very helpful!

[Al Krow]

On 30/08/2019 at 10:01, Woodinblack said:

In short, I found loads I liked. How you can work out a system of finding the one you want again, I am not yet sure, the knobs are pretty small, the device is pretty small. Not only are there all those groups and all the variations, the filter and rate knobs can completely change the sound too. I think it is a case of find the effect you want, and take a picture of write it down!

Woody - great initial summary you posted earlier! I don't think I've got much to add at this stage (still playing catch up), other than developing one of your comments, which I've quoted above.

As you say, the Tone (Rate) knob adds a whole additional layer of variation to each of the 121 settings. I'd say this inner dial gives more variation than the outer 'depth' ring which seems more like a 'fine' control whereas the Tone is more a 'coarse' control.  As does the depth knob!!

So there are probably more like 400 to 500 700 to 800 distinct sounds available from the SY-1, which is a fantastic amount of versatility. But given the tweak-ability of the pedal it won't take forever to work through and it will be fun, rather than a PITA doing it.

Totally agree that making notes is going to be key. Should be possible to devise an usable shorthand between us, I'd have thought? Something on the lines of B4.6.3 = Bass (type) variation 4 with Tone dial at 6/10 and depth at 3/10

Btw - appreciate that you're not going to be making much use of the Bass type from your comment - me on the other hand, I made a beeline for it! With the dry dialled down and the wet fully engaged you can get some pretty speaker blowing DOD Meatbox emulations going - definitely 😈

Edited August 31, 2019 by Al Krow
Spoke too soon about the depth filter!

[paulbuzz]

Just watched a YouTube demo of the SY-1 by a bloke from the Sweetwater music shop who had made an elementary but catastrophic clothing error...

[Al Krow]

Arpeggiators. I now realise it was something I was missing on my FI!

Having so much fun on this pedal! @Quatschmacher as our the national expert on bass synths, you really should get your hands on one of these! 

Here's a setting for you Woody to have some fun with: Seq10.11.4.4 i.e. Sequencer 10, Variation 11, rate 4/10, depth 4/10 with clean blend max'd

[Woodinblack]

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Arpeggiators. I now realise it was something I was missing on my FI!

Having so much fun on this pedal! @Quatschmacher as our the national expert on bass synths, you really should get your hands on one of these! 

Here's a setting for you Woody to have some fun with: Seq10.11.4.4 i.e. Sequencer 10, Variation 11, rate 4/10, depth 4/10 with clean blend max'd

 

Will give it a try, but will almost certainly have tried it as I spent an age in the ARP section, hands down my favourite place

I gigged it yesterday, didn't do our actual synthy songs but I used it in a few random places. Probably some places where it didn't go, but I don't care, it is a brilliant thing. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Woodinblack

[Al Krow]

Ah cool. So we are both loving the ARP section it seems then. We'll that was pretty quick landing on that between us! 

I do agree this is a brilliant little pedal. No question at all and right up there in terms of ones I'd 'save in a fire'. The only other pedal I might keep ahead of it is more than double its price and happens to be a multifx

[Quatschmacher]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Arpeggiators. I now realise it was something I was missing on my FI!

Having so much fun on this pedal! @Quatschmacher as our the national expert on bass synths, you really should get your hands on one of these! 

Here's a setting for you Woody to have some fun with: Seq10.11.4.4 i.e. Sequencer 10, Variation 11, rate 4/10, depth 4/10 with clean blend max'd

I might see if I can try one in Just Music in Berlin on Monday or Tuesday. Hoping to meet up with @SICbass there. 

[Quatschmacher]

C4 does (configurable) arpeggiators. 

[Owen]

ARP section. Does this means it does Boss SL-20 slicer stuff?

[Woodinblack]

20 minutes ago, owen said:

ARP section. Does this means it does Boss SL-20 slicer stuff?

Nope.

It is a proper synth arpegiator, so you trigger it with some notes and it does a pattern of notes with the synth, like any other synth would do. At no point does the SY-1 do anything with your guitar signal apart from use the pitch to set its oscilators, your signal goes straight through unchained (if you turn it up).

[Woodinblack]

I gigged mine yesterday, and the day before. They were odd gigs and we didn't do our normal set list, so no poker face. But I used it, mainly for fattening the sound up. However, we did 20th Century boy (which was a surprise, we haven't done that for a good 20 gigs), So I thought as I didn't have the synths set for the start note like I used to a few years back when we did it all the time, and I had about 5 seconds of notice, the synth was set to a pad sound, I turned it up, played a higher E and then pressed the hold button to hold that E while I did the riff. It sort of worked. With a bit of notice and practice it could certainly work.

[Owen]

So you break my heart by telling me it will not SL20 but then pique my interest again by telling me it will sustain?

[Woodinblack]

16 minutes ago, owen said:

So you break my heart by telling me it will not SL20 but then pique my interest again by telling me it will sustain?

Yes, if you press and hold the switch (or external footswitch) it will hold whatever it is playing until you let go of the switch.

[Owen]

<sigh> I might have to have one. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, owen said:

<sigh> I might have to have one. 

Yup! 

I've auditioned 60+ pedals over the past couple of years. Have held onto 10 or so which are still on my board. For me, the SY-1 has gotta be the most hassle-free creative fun in a bass pedal of any that I've tried so far! Can't really give it too much more praise than that, can I? 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

I am not a pedal guy - I am happy with most multieffects. I hate all the wiring and hassle. Probably because I spent most of my early years as a major pedal guy but since then I have spent too many lost hours of my life standing next to people trying to get their pedals to work so we can get on with the gig. 

But, this is the first pedal I have had in ages that is something I couldn't approximate with something else, and genuinely does something fun and relatively unique. And it is just so useable - no setup, just find a setting and play it. 

[Al Krow]

Key strengths of the SY-1. Here's my list:

• Ease of use (no PC editing required) 
• Fantastic tracking at speed all the way down to a low B
• Some very usable sounds 
• Creative fun including an excellent arpeggiator
• Polyphonic 
• Separate sustain whilst overlaying your bass line
• Competitive price point compared to the leading competition

Key downside: 

• Lack of presets 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Competitive price point compared to the leading competition

So for my reference - what is the leading competition?

As far as I can see, the only other polyphonic synth pedals are the SY-300 (which is quite a lot bigger and older), or one of the actual synths such as the GR5 / GR10s, all of which need a hex pickup.

I would say if you are looking for a boss sized poly synth pedal, this is entirely in its own category at the moment, unless SD have something?

[Al Krow]

For me the three best tracking and best sounding bass pedal synths for < £350, based on personal experience and fellow BC recommendations, are the Boss SY-1, the Panda FI and Source Audio C4. And if I was choosing a high-end bass synth pedal it would currently be one of these three. 

Only the SY-1 is poly and has this clever sustain feature (unless the C4 also has the latter?) 

The other two have presets but require midi / PC / phone editing to get the most out of. 

The FI doesn't have ARP, which we are both loving in the SY-1. 

New prices: SY-1 £175, C4 £249, FI £328

Edited September 2, 2019 by Al Krow

[paulbuzz]

3 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

So for my reference - what is the leading competition?

As far as I can see, the only other polyphonic synth pedals are the SY-300 (which is quite a lot bigger and older), or one of the actual synths such as the GR5 / GR10s, all of which need a hex pickup.

I would say if you are looking for a boss sized poly synth pedal, this is entirely in its own category at the moment, unless SD have something?

Isn't the EHX Synth9 kinda similar in terms of facilities? (Although no arpeggiator)
But I don't know anything about its tracking or sound quality...

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

For me the three best tracking and best sounding bass pedal synths for < £350, based on personal experience and fellow BC recommendations, are the Boss SY-1, the Panda FI and Source Audio C4. And if I was choosing a high-end bass synth pedal it would currently be one of these three. 

Only the SY-1 is poly and has this clever sustain feature (unless the C4 also has the latter?) 

The other two have presets but require midi / PC / phone editing to get the most out of. 

The FI doesn't have ARP, which we are both loving in the SY-1. 

New prices: SY-1 £175, C4 £249, FI £328

What does the freeze feature on the SY-1 actually do? Does it allow further triggering of synth notes while sustaining others (if so, what is the maximum polyphony)? If not, is it just allowing dry bass to be played over a synth wash?