Boss SY-1

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Mine won't arrive until end of October!

I know, but I'm trying to feed you ideas in advance so that we don't breach your nerdometer! 😂

[fretmeister]

It's just making me frustrated!!

[Al Krow]

21 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

It's just making me frustrated!!

Yup, there's nothing worse than being a frustrated anti-nerd. Other than perhaps being a frustrated nerd?

You have my deepest condolences 😂

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

@Woodinblack @fretmeister - you guys given any thought to using the parallel loop capability on yours?

I have tried it with a B3n, and that worked well!

Probably not going to be using it with much as I don't have room for many small pedals on my board (in fact I only have a few small pedals now) as there is too much there. And frankly, I have been through the small pedal thing and don't really want to go back there, just too much hassle compared to a multi.

[Al Krow]

Spent a couple of hours with my board wiring looking like Spaghetti Junction! But it's a definite improvement putting the bitcrusher and a couple of drives in the SY-1 loop and having a clean synth blended with these others in parallel rather than in series. That's going to be my default setup going forward. Progress!

Edited September 23, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

15 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

It’s very flexible, you can use it as a loop or as dual input or a whole bunch of other stuff. The only thing I’ve used it for is for processing external effects with the filter while using dry signal to trigger the envelopes.  

Had a quick look through the AS Manual. The two inputs / outputs do allow for stereo in / out and can also act as a splitter for a mono input. But the loop function is the much less useful series rather than parallel loop and when the AS is bypassed, the external effect will be out of the circuit and inaccessible. So I certainly can't put pedals into the AS loop as I have just done above with the SY-1 to deliver a parallel blend and accessibility regardless of whether the SY-1 is bypassed.

The C4 manual doesn't seem to give much detail on the operation of the twin inputs / outputs but, given the similar physical layout of the two pedals, I am guessing it will be pretty similar in this to the AS?

[GisserD]

From memory. The As routing capabilities are awesome. I'd be surprised if you cant use the in out 2 as a loop.

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, GisserD said:

From memory. The As routing capabilities are awesome. I'd be surprised if you cant use the in out 2 as a loop.

It would be nice if it could, but I'm just paraphrasing the SA AS manual in my above post. 

But you and Peter both have the C4, so it should be fairly easy for one of you to set it up with a pedal in a parallel loop if it's capable of doing that. If it is, however, the same as the AS the looped pedal will be in series and not be accessible when the C4 is bypassed. 

[GisserD]

8 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

It would be nice if it could, but I'm just paraphrasing the SA AS manual in my above post. 

But you and Peter both have the C4, so it should be fairly easy for one of you to set it up with a pedal in a parallel loop if it's capable of doing that. If it is, however, the same as the AS the looped pedal will be in series and not be accessible when the C4 is bypassed. 

actually it is possible. it would cost you a preset tho.

just set up a patch with no effect, and using the loop in series.

[Al Krow]

19 minutes ago, GisserD said:

actually it is possible. it would cost you a preset tho.

just set up a patch with no effect, and using the loop in series.

Two problems I see with that:

The bigger one is that that it still would not be possible to have the AS actually working as a drive at the same time with this other pedal in parallel for a 'clean' blend of the two. You can only have them in series. The whole point here, for me, is being able to do a parallel blend.

The smaller one, which may not be discernible, is that you can no longer engage full bypass of the AS but are using a simulated bypass. But the difference between full and simulated bypass is likely to be small we would hope.

Agreed?

[Quatschmacher]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Had a quick look through the AS Manual. The two inputs / outputs do allow for stereo in / out and can also act as a splitter for a mono input. But the loop function is the much less useful series rather than parallel loop and when the AS is bypassed, the external effect will be out of the circuit and inaccessible. So I certainly can't put pedals into the AS loop as I have just done above with the SY-1 to deliver a parallel blend and accessibility regardless of whether the SY-1 is bypassed.

The C4 manual doesn't seem to give much detail on the operation of the twin inputs / outputs but, given the similar physical layout of the two pedals, I am guessing it will be pretty similar in this to the AS?

The C4 does way more than the Aftershock with its inputs. You need to look at the block diagram to see how you can route it different ways, or play around with the offline editor. The manual is maybe a bit short on concrete examples. 

[Al Krow]

33 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

The C4 does way more than the Aftershock with its inputs. You need to look at the block diagram to see how you can route it different ways, or play around with the offline editor. The manual is maybe a bit short on concrete examples. 

Agreed the C4 manual is a bit short on detail on this point. In SA's defence their C4 manual is a zillion times more informative than the Boss SY-1 manual!! The best place for info on the SY-1 seems to be the website.

I'll leave you boys to revert on whether you manage to actually achieve true parallel looping on the C4 as you both have one and I don't 😉

While I have your attention on this point, would I be correct that there is no looping option available on the FI?

For me being able to have the synth in a parallel loop with your drive pedals seems to be a very major plus as it allows the 'clean' synth to be clearly heard but with a parallel blended drive to fatten things up. In series, a driven synth tone is much more of 'mush'! It's been the major reason I've been looking into parallel pedal routing these past couple of months. Anyway I'm there on this feature with the SY-1 and I'll leave you to work out, Darren, whether that means I'm going to like this pedal even more or not 😁

Edited September 24, 2019 by Al Krow

[GisserD]

I can make anything parallel with my es8. So I'm afraid I wont be investigating this any time soon. 

[Al Krow]

Board rejigged with the SY-1 very much as the centrepiece - set up with clean input from Thumpinator and Becos comp; parallel bit crush / drive / fuzz loop comprising Srutator, which has replaced the Mastotron very capably, Grizzly, and Ripper and TRS cable to expression pedal.

Output from SY-1, combining synth and parallel loop, --> SA pedals / GR2 / Mosaic and finally to Stomp which provides both balanced out and excellent headphone amp capability.

Loving it - and that's hopefully me done for a while on the pedalboard front, although I suspect I'm going to be on the look out for an upgrade to my expression pedal to get the most out of the SY-1 at some point soon (hit me up if you have a high end one going spare)  

Edited September 27, 2019 by Al Krow

[krispn]

It’d be great to hear some audio of this evolved board! I know you’re working towards more synth bass tones for upcoming projects and having been sent the latest ‘To do’ list for the next series of songs to learn there’s a few 80’s classic’s in there so my interest is again piqued! And seeing how we’re playing New Year’s Eve the countdown begins. 

For those who don’t know I generally just use a bit of comp and drive on my gigs but the idea of running a clean and possibly synths tones to cop some classic sounds for the big night out does begin to appeal. 

[Al Krow]

Updated comparison note of Panda FI vs SY-1...

Where the FI wins:

·        overall more capable and more tweak-able synth engine

·        midi enabled

·        ability to provide 99 presets

Where the SY-1 wins:

·        flawless tracking all the way down to a low B (and not requiring a staccato / muted style to avoid glitching)

·        immediacy of dials (no need for an app/midi/PC) to access some great synth sounds

·        ££ (new)

·        arpeggiator

·        polyphonic

·        straightforward parallel loop capability

·        ability to use an expression pedal

·        smaller footprint

The Source Audio C4 takes the plusses of the FI (albeit owners of both the C4 and FI seem to be saying that they consider the FI to have the more capable synth engine of the two) and a couple of the plusses of the SY-1 (e.g. arpeggiator, smaller footprint and it can also, with care, deliver a parallel loop capability). It also comes in half way between the FI and SY-1 on price.

Of the three, I'm finding myself very much in the SY-1 camp (having previously owned the FI and not being averse to SA pedals as you will have noted from my PB!). Whilst the SY-1 is not going to be everyone's first choice, I think we can all agree there's never been a better time to be a bass synth pedal lover!

Edited September 27, 2019 by Al Krow

[Quatschmacher]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Updated comparison note of Panda FI vs SY-1...

Where the FI wins:

·        overall more capable and more tweak-able synth engine

·        midi enabled

·        ability to provide 99 presets

Where the SY-1 wins:

·        flawless tracking all the way down to a low B (and not requiring a staccato / muted style to avoid glitching)

·        immediacy of dials (no need for an app/midi/PC) to access some great synth sounds

·        ££ (new)

·        arpeggiator

·        polyphonic

·        straightforward parallel loop capability

·        ability to use an expression pedal

·        smaller footprint

The Source Audio C4 takes the plusses of the FI (albeit owners of both the C4 and FI seem to be saying that they consider the FI to have the more capable synth engine of the two) and a couple of the plusses of the SY-1 (e.g. arpeggiator, smaller footprint and it can also, with care, deliver a parallel loop capability). It also comes in half way between the FI and SY-1 on price.

Of the three, I'm finding myself very much in the SY-1 camp (having previously owned the FI and not being averse to SA pedals as you will have noted from my PB!). Whilst the SY-1 is not going to be everyone's first choice, I think we can all agree there's never been a better time to be a bass synth pedal lover!

The FI can be used with expression pedal, albeit via another piece of gear (which many people may already have for switching presets). I use my Source Audio Hub.

And the synth capabilities are lightyears beyond the SY-1 (if one needs them as I realise lots of folks will be happy with the more limited scope of the Boss).

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

And the synth capabilities are lightyears beyond the SY-1 (if one needs them as I realise lots of folks will be happy with the more limited scope of the Boss).

I think that's overstating it a bit e.g. the FI can't touch the SY-1 on quality of tracking, availability of an arpegiattor or the ability to parallel loop - and now I know what I'm missing, never having had any of these on my FI, these features are right up there in things I'd want from my synth. The quality and glitch-free nature of the tracking on the SY-1 is a massive achievement making it a really usable piece of live gear. I've never felt that about any of my synth pedals before.

And in terms of the rest of the synth engine - sometimes you really don't need a battleship; a fast tracking and small-form gunboat will do just fine.

Horses for courses 😉

[GisserD]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

I think that's overstating it a bit e.g. the FI can't touch the SY-1 on quality of tracking, availability of an arpegiattor or the ability to parallel loop - and now I know what I'm missing, never having had any of these on my FI, these features are right up there in things I'd want from my synth. The quality and glitch-free nature of the tracking on the SY-1 is a massive achievement making it a really usable piece of live gear. I've never felt that about any of my synth pedals before.

And in terms of the rest of the synth engine - sometimes you really don't need a battleship; a fast tracking and small-form gunboat will do just fine.

Horses for courses 😉

So do you like the sy1? Or not? Cut to the chase!!

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, GisserD said:

So do you like the sy1? Or not? Cut to the chase!!

Soz mate, still way too soon to say. Give me another 18 to 24 months and if it's still on my board, I'll give it a thumbs up. I'm sorry that is making a mess of your sweepstake. 

If it's actually been gigged by then, you'll know I'm smitten. Particularly as my live sound has hitherto been just fingers, strings, bass, lead amp and cab. 

If I buy an FI or C4, because I need a battleship all bets are off. Probably more likely to get a synth keyboard, though...

On a touch more serious note, one thing I would strongly recommend to fellow synth users - having a parallel loop with ability to keep your synth generated sound clean is a game changer. If your synth pedal can't do it worth thinking about a Boss LS2 or similar. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Al Krow

[Woodinblack]

I have gigged my SY-1 several times now. I need to redo the pedalboard for it. It is key in a few songs now.

[King Tut]

12 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

The FI can be used with expression pedal, albeit via another piece of gear (which many people may already have for switching presets). I use my Source Audio Hub.

And the synth capabilities are lightyears beyond the SY-1 (if one needs them as I realise lots of folks will be happy with the more limited scope of the Boss).

What's the bit of gear for switching presets?

Can't speak for a fiver but my F1 tracks flawlessly to low E on a four. 

The SY1 sounds great for the money. Tempted to try one when they come in stock but hard to justify.

[Al Krow]

6 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

I have gigged my SY-1 several times now. I need to redo the pedalboard for it. It is key in a few songs now.

What are your thoughts in terms of rejigging your board? 

[GisserD]

7 hours ago, Al Krow said:

 

On a touch more serious note, one thing I would strongly recommend to fellow synth users - having a parallel loop with ability to keep your synth generated sound clean is a game changer. If your synth pedal can't do it worth thinking about a Boss LS2 or similar. 

My es8 allows me to create parallel loops on the fly. No no need for that.

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, GisserD said:

My es8 allows me to create parallel loops on the fly. No no need for that.

Yup, great bit of kit. But the same size as a Nano+ pedal board just by itself?