I Hate Gigging!

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Deedee said:

 

Again there’s a big difference between those who do it professionally (it’s their chosen profession and main source of income) and those who do it as a hobby.

If it was my chosen profession I would enjoy the good, the bad and the ugly far more as that’s what I’d decided to do to earn my coin. However if it’s a hobby alongside a full time job which is paying the mortgage, clearly the threshold at which the downsides could outweigh the joy of the performance could be very, very different.

There are many reasons why people don’t gig, or stop gigging. Work pressures, family commitments, performance anxiety, lack of opportunities, band politics etc, etc. I just don’t think that those people should be looked upon as lesser musicians because of it.

Me and a keys player I'm in a couple of bands with were driving back to Yorkshire from a recording session in the Midlands yesterday and we were talking about this. Now my mate has a bit of a decent CV and has played with a number of US singers when they come over to the UK / Europe - guys who are well known and respected and who have had a taste of the big time, even if they never really became big stars. He was saying how few of them are full time or rely on music as their only source of income. They nearly all have other jobs or business interests to help pay the bills, even though they still record and tour for part of the year. 

The music industry has changed a lot over the years and it's very difficult to sustain a full time career unless you're playing in orchestra pits (or similar) or you're prepared to live a pretty meagre lifestyle. A lot of top.players out there who you would think of very much being 'pro', are actually in a pretty similar position to you...

Edited July 15, 2019 by peteb

[Deedee]

10 minutes ago, peteb said:

Me and a keys player I'm in a couple of bands with were driving back to Yorkshire from a recording session in the Midlands yesterday and we were talking about this. Now my mate has a bit of a decent CV and has played with a number of US singers when they come over to the UK / Europe, guys who are well known and respected and who have had a taste of the big time, even if they never really became big stars. He was saying how few of them are full time or rely on music as their only source of income. They nearly all have other jobs or business interests to help pay the bills, even though they still record and tour for part of the year. 

The music industry has changed a lot over the years and it's very difficult to sustain a full time career unless your playing in orchestra puts and the like or your prepared to live a pretty meagre lifestyle. A lot of top.players out there who you would think of very much being 'pro's, are actually in a pretty similar position to you...

I’m sure you’re right but to be fair I was responding to a post that directly referred to gigging as a favourable alternative to doing 40 hours in a call centre/retail outlet.

It was my last paragraph that I really wanted to emphasise in response to the OP and subsequent posts.

[peteb]

8 minutes ago, Deedee said:

I’m sure you’re right but to be fair I was responding to a post that directly referred to gigging as a favourable alternative to doing 40 hours in a call centre/retail outlet.

It was my last paragraph that I really wanted to emphasise in response to the OP and subsequent posts.

There can always be family or work pressures that can force people to take time out from gigging. The other reasons you mention, maybe less so. If you are a musician then there is no reason why you should be tied to one band and if you are any good, then other opportunities will present themselves if you are open to them.

[Bluewine]

I'started gigging in rock bands at age 12 never really stopped. I'm 66, can't wait till this Saturday's gig.

I thinks it's different for those of us with no other  life interests.

Don't get me wrong, all gigs aren't great. You just put on a happy face and don't take it or yourself that serious. A lot of stuff just goes with the territory

I love It .

Blue

Edited July 16, 2019 by Bluewine

[TimR]

6 hours ago, peteb said:

generally most punters are fine when they talk to you.

I guess this could be a key factor. If you treat gigging as an ‘us and them’ situation and don’t get the audience on your side you may run into problems. Chatting to people at the bar when you arrive is probably more likely to mean you play a better gig and are asked back, than turning up, ignoring everyone, moving the furniture around, unplugging the TV showing the footie and turning up to 11. (Not that anyone would be that extreme of course)

[Woodinblack]

3 hours ago, Bluewine said:

I'started gigging in rock bands at age 12 never really stopped. I'm 66, can't wait till this Saturday's gig.

I thinks it's different for those of us with no other  life interests.

Don't get me wrong, all gigs aren't great. You just put on a happy face and don't take it or yourself that serious. A lot of stuff just goes with the territory

I love It .

Yeh, but the OP isnt getting paid. You wouldnt put up with that

[Barking Spiders]

3 hours ago, TimR said:

I guess this could be a key factor. If you treat gigging as an ‘us and them’ situation and don’t get the audience on your side you may run into problems. Chatting to people at the bar when you arrive is probably more likely to mean you play a better gig and are asked back, than turning up, ignoring everyone, moving the furniture around, unplugging the TV showing the footie and turning up to 11. (Not that anyone would be that extreme of course)

Exactly. Punters shouldn't have to be made to feel they're privileged to watch a band doing their thing. That's the impression Van Morrison gives me. It should be like one big party though I guess that also depends on what you're playing. I supposed doom metal and 70s angsty West coast songwriter stuff doesn't really create that vibe.

[Bluewine]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Yeh, but the OP isnt getting paid. You wouldnt put up with that

Agreed, we want to make ad much money as we can.

Blue

[chris_b]

16 minutes ago, Barking Spiders said:

Punters shouldn't have to be made to feel they're privileged to watch a band doing their thing. That's the impression Van Morrison gives me.

Poor old Van. He's bitter and twisted to the max. Having a drink problem and being seriously ripped off in the early days (he still only gets about 0.5% for much of his early material) doesn't help. 

[stingrayPete1977]

If you are only putting up with the downsides of gigging to keep other bands members happy it's time to move on. 

If the diary is already fuller than you'd like I can tell you from experience that the more gigs you do for free the more free gigs you'll pick up and it will snowball until you crack, you then look like the bad guy because you won't play the little festival for the donkey sanctuary! 

[EliasMooseblaster]

20 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

We are lucky in that in 3 years we have only been more than 15 miles from home on 5 or 6 occasions.

Yeah, driving from London to Leeds and back again the same night, in driving rain both ways, might have been the tipping point for me!

Ironically, the biggest distance we travelled was one of the most enjoyable - possibly because we flew to Germany, all sitting in different ends of the plane (that's Queasyjet for you...), then I had to get on the U-Bahn to meet a friend of our drummer to borrow a bass for the night, so no time was spent folded up in the seat of a van. And the venue treated us exceptionally well, which helped (after hurrying from Schoenefeld, to somewhere in North Berlin, and then back down to Kreuzberg, a litre of Dunkelsbier on the house could not have been more welcome!)

[4000]

I treat gigging as a necessary evil, most of the time. It earns the band money to enable us to record, and gets our music out to people who may hopefully enjoy it. However as someone who suffers with chronic anxiety, I don’t often find it a very happy or relaxing thing to do, with the occasional exception.

And sadly, we don’t earn enough for us to give up our soul-destroying day jobs.

I generally much prefer playing festivals to pub gigs, FWIW.

Edited July 16, 2019 by 4000

[Newfoundfreedom]

Well we've got our first ever festival coming up a week on Saturday, so I'll see how things go there, and whether or not I can find that elusive "buzz". 

[Marc S]

Shame you dislike gigging so much.
Me, I really love doing it.... usually. There have been a few not so good gigs, a few awful gigs, and some "difficult" punters
But the overall experience is that it's a worthwhile thing to do. I always end up shattered - but usually I also have an odd sense of "satisfaction"
After a gig, and once I'm home and my gear is unloaded - I can't sleep for a while, and need to wind down, usually with a wee dram, or a cuppa

I want to keep gigging for as long as possible - as long as it's not 3 or 4 times a week (too many late nights, at my age lol)
But I definitely want to keep playing live music. When the band, and myself get it "right" it's a great feeling

[Dapper Bandit]

I've pretty much dropped out of gigging now.  The scene here is awful from my perspective and I just can't bring myself to go back out there.  As someone who doesn't have an interest in performing covers, here are some of my reasons why:

 

There is not a dedicated live music venue that will allow on local acts, the arts centre and opera house is al about bringing over UK folk acts / tribute bands.  If you are local you play in a handful of pubs.  If you are an originals band there are now two pubs that will let you play in their upstairs room.  One pub is a proper skeevy dive, the room is literally the size of an average front room so drumkit/PA/amps is never going to happen if you want punters in.  The other pub ropes off the stairs to the room when it's in use so you have to be "in the know" to even be aware there is live music on.

The crowd is non-existant.  A once thriving originals scene has dwindled down to people who are in bands and their mates that they can drag along to see them play.  I used to be at gigs every Friday and Saturday night just to see who was playing, some nights not even knowing a single face.  The lineups were varied and everyone would give every band a chance.  Now the friends watch their mates play and then leave.

The music is staid.  No more mixed bills.  You going to see a singer-songwriter play?  Hope you like 4 other similarly befrowned young men pouring their poetry out over 4 similarly wrought collections of chord progressions.  Metal night?  How does 5 bands hammering away on precisely the same theme for 4 1/2 tickle your fancy (this was my last gig)? How does a jazz night sound to you?  Oh, we don't have those over here.  Same for funk/soul.  Not a single band.  The main drive behind young musicians here is to form a cover band good enough to play the one pub that would not automatically qualify as a festering pit.  This one pub will retain the services of a single cover band in 6 month stints so all these kids are clamouring for a 6 month residency that if they're lucky might lead to them getting a wedding gig and then splitting up.

There are a lot of contributing factors to this dire state of affairs but for me it's enough.  I've had it up to my back teeth with driving miles back on ourselves to fetch our drumkit because the one promised by organisers never appeared and not one of the other 3 bands owned a drumkit.  I'm finished with letting people borrow my amp so they can blow the cabinet and skip off scott-free (that was a fun one as that was a touring band that got paid and I am mates with the promoter.  Lot's of "are you sure it wasn't fecked before the guy with the bass tuned to F# turned everything up to 10 and played as hard as he physically could on it?") I've grown bored of watching opening bands dragging all their friends off to a post-gig celebration party somewhere else before their drummer has finished removing their cymbals.

I play instruments because I love music.  Not playing live doesn't make anyone less of a musician just the same as belting out Chelsea Dagger down the Dog and Sausage doesn't make you less of a musician.  I would love to be part of a group of people making and recording music we are passionate about.  Maybe the occasional gig done right would be a real occasion to look forward to (something a bit more special than matching ties and a cheap banner hung behind the drumkit, maybe playing to a movie being projected or something).

But the realities of my situation leave me to think that this isn't going to happen anytime soon and that makes me sad.  But not sad enough to trudge on through the gigs that are available!

[TimR]

@Dapper Bandit sounds to me like there is a gap in the market for someone with a bit of imagination and enthusiasm to take hold of...

[mangotango]

On ‎14‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 11:31, chris_b said:

Depends why you picked up a bass in the first place. Maybe people should have played golf instead.

I do both....though not, it has to be said, at the same time.

[Lozz196]

The way I play golf you’d think I was using my bass instead of a club anyway 

[Leonard Smalls]

17 minutes ago, TimR said:

sounds to me like there is a gap in the market for someone with a bit of imagination and enthusiasm to take hold of...

Some places just don't seem to have an audience!

Mate of mine tried to set up some gigs in our local community centre with varied selections of bands. After he'd paid for PA, security (comm insisted he needed 2 security guards at £250!), insurance and hall hire it worked out £4 entry to break even. And maximum audience was 50, so he made a loss of £400 each night! Folks said it was far too expensive even though all the bands were excellent. 

And recently my local, completely out of the blue, decided to have a band on in the bar; they were a Dutch prog band called Sky Architect - the quality of their musicianship and music was by far the best that had been seen/heard in the town for years. It was free, on a Friday night, not very loud (you could talk to the person next to you!), but there were about 8 of us in the bar. Young Farmer types would come in for beer every now and then - one even asked me if the band were any good (why didn't he just listen!!!). But they all stayed out in the courtyard,ignoring this amazing band and shouting at each other in exactly the same way as they did every other Friday. 

However, nip down to Hereford (an hour down the road) and there's a ready audience for new music!

 

[steantval]

22 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

I love gigging. Wouldn't do it if I didn't. I can't understand those who complain about carrying stuff, travelling, etc, etc. We ought to reflect on how fortunate we are. Anything is better than doing a 40 hour week in a call centre or crappy retail outlet, which is what so many poor sods have to do to make ends meet.

Some people do those day jobs and still play in bands, fair play to em.

[peteb]

You have to consider what the demand is any market - basic economics apply when you are promoting bands just they do for any other product. There's a reason why high street pubs put on covers bands rather than originals.

[peteb]

1 minute ago, steantval said:

Some people do those day jobs and still play in bands, fair play to em.

It's an escape for them from their not particularly stimulating day jobs.

[chris_b]

All you guys who are gigging inspite of not liking it. . . . call me. I'll do all those nasty, uncomfortable, pesky gigs for you. 

[lowregisterhead]

4 minutes ago, chris_b said:

All you guys who are gigging inspite of not liking it. . . . call me. I'll do all those nasty, uncomfortable, pesky gigs for you. 

I may well take you up on that!

How do you feel about wearing spandex?? 🤣

[Dapper Bandit]

48 minutes ago, TimR said:

@Dapper Bandit sounds to me like there is a gap in the market for someone with a bit of imagination and enthusiasm to take hold of...

Whilst there is a gap in the market from the supply end, I'm not too sure there is enough demand here to justify.  A couple of promotion companies have gone under trying and there is another who I believe is doing modestly (in a breaking even kind of way). 

As @Leonard Smalls points out, there's a good number of people out there who are happy to sink their drinks and shout at one another.  I remember playing a gig (several years ago now) where we went on before 11pm and despite having a pretty good number of fans we played to an empty room because they were all still in their preferred boozer.  Walking 10 minutes down the road to a venue hosting a band they liked was completely outside the realms of possibility because they were having a drink in the pub.  And the venue in question also served alcohol!  A band I was in was once invited to take part in a local arts festival and as a result we were given a couple of free tickets that could be cashed in at other events that were part of the festival.  One such event was seeing British Sea Power playing a new score to an old film (Man of Arran"?) at the local Opera House.  It was half empty because the bar wasn't open...