I Hate Gigging!

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, ubit said:

Not necessarily. I have heard of artists who get sick of songs they have written and get annoyed when fans keep asking for these songs as they maybe want to showcase their new material.

 

If you really don't enjoy playing some of your old songs then simply stop playing them. If that impacts on audience numbers for subsequent gigs then you have failed at point 2 of my previous post.

 

As a punter I might be disappointed if a band doesn't play one of my favourite songs from their back catalogue, but there will plenty of other equally great ones in the set to make up for that. If you only like one song by a band, it's probably not a good idea to go and see them play live.

[ubit]

1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

Which also means Dad Rock is now probably more Grunge and Nu Metal while the likes of Led Zep, Who etc constitute GrandDad Rock

 

 

There will soon be old folks homes where the residents listen to Slipknot and the like. There's a thought.

[Muzz]

53 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

And beetles and stones would be great grandad rock

 

Which pays into the situation (from probably five years ago now) when our BL/singist/geetard had a side gig playing old people's homes...I'd imagined he'd had to learn a whole new setlist, but the majority of requests he got were for Beatles and Stones-era songs...

[Stub Mandrel]

22 hours ago, peteb said:

 

That goes without saying. To be frank, I think its worse with bands playing original material - I have never been in an originals band where I liked all the songs! 

 

 

My experience of being in originals bands is that, to be brutally honest, a lot of the material wasn't brilliant. There were a few really good songs, that would possibly have worked as minor singles if produced well, a lot of 'album filler' songs and a few lemons.

 

One of the biggest issues is that when playing popular covers you generally have one or even several versions that are well produced  to emulate, especially if you are bigger band that can have lots of dynamics.

 

If you are an originals band, your songs can be a bit flat unless you have a BL with a bit of nous and an ear for things like quiet passages, impactful bridges and tasteful key changes.

[TimR]

16 minutes ago, Muzz said:

 

Which pays into the situation (from probably five years ago now) when our BL/singist/geetard had a side gig playing old people's homes...I'd imagined he'd had to learn a whole new setlist, but the majority of requests he got were for Beatles and Stones-era songs...

 

Paul McCartney is 79 years old.

[TimR]

5 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

My experience of being in originals bands is that, to be brutally honest, a lot of the material wasn't brilliant. There were a few really good songs, that would possibly have worked as minor singles if produced well, a lot of 'album filler' songs and a few lemons.

 

One of the biggest issues is that when playing popular covers you generally have one or even several versions that are well produced  to emulate, especially if you are bigger band that can have lots of dynamics.

 

If you are an originals band, your songs can be a bit flat unless you have a BL with a bit of nous and an ear for things like quiet passages, impactful bridges and tasteful key changes.

 

Having been to a lot of festivals there are some very good songwriters around who understand song structure and chord progressions and write songs that work, even if you don't actully like them. 

 

But there are an awful lot of bands who just string a load of riffs together and call it a song without understanding anything about music. That's never going to work for anyone. 

[Dad3353]

37 minutes ago, TimR said:

... just string a load of riffs together and call it a song without understanding anything about music. That's never going to work for anyone. 

 

I dunno, Shostakovich got away with it for years, so... 

 

...

 

 

[Woody1957]

3 hours ago, Nail Soup said:

Or Pans People 🙂 

Or legs and co.....Cherry and Babs starred in quite a few of my dreams lol

Edited March 24, 2022 by Woody1957

[TimR]

2 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

 

I dunno, Shostakovich got away with it for years, so... 

 

...

 

 

 

I'll have a listen. But even classical music has movements and repeated motifs and themes. It's unusual to have something that doesn't have some kind of structure. 

[Dad3353]

5 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I'll have a listen. But even classical music has movements and repeated motifs and themes. It's unusual to have something that doesn't have some kind of structure. 

 

Well, then, here's a Starter for Ten...

 

 

Disclaimer: The fellow has been widely acclaimed as the Inventor of Modern Classical, and probably did know a few things about Music. Please note the 'sticking tongue out' Smilie, indicating a post for Comic Effect. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Dad3353

[Newfoundfreedom]

3 hours ago, TimR said:

 

Having been to a lot of festivals there are some very good songwriters around who understand song structure and chord progressions and write songs that work, even if you don't actully like them. 

 

But there are an awful lot of bands who just string a load of riffs together and call it a song without understanding anything about music. That's never going to work for anyone. 

 

It worked for the Sex Pistols. 

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

 

It worked for the Sex Pistols. 

 

Ironically their song about Anarchy follows music rules very closely. 

[Downunderwonder]

On 24/03/2022 at 04:22, TimR said:

It's worth bearing in mind the Beatles and Stones heyday music was 60 years ago. People who were big fans and teenagers then are now in their late 70s/80s. 

That old stuff is new again. Even Madonna stuff is from before today's youff was born.

 

Must be about ten years ago anything Beatles would get a huge rise out of the younger set at an open mic. I was house bassist, even with me only 'knowing how it goes, sorta, what's the key?''...1234... riot on the dancefloor.

 

My 16 year old niece has a vinyl collection heavy on David Bowie and ELO. Go figure.

[Barking Spiders]

I've seen a few local bands playing their own material and pretty much the general response among pubgoers has been a mix of indifference and annoyance. The bands that followed them playing familiar but not too obvious covers went down a storm by contrast. Mind you, there are thousands of successful bands who've still yet to write actual songs.

[Downunderwonder]

12 hours ago, ubit said:

traditional music

Which tradition(s)?

[ubit]

8 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Which tradition(s)?

  Scottish traditional music

[ubit]

9 hours ago, Barking Spiders said:

I've seen a few local bands playing their own material and pretty much the general response among pubgoers has been a mix of indifference and annoyance. The bands that followed them playing familiar but not too obvious covers went down a storm by contrast.

 

 

This is the problem that faces lots of bands. We tried playing some of our own songs many years ago in our set but people were not interested. We even cut a demo and put a tape out (showing my age) and we sold about 30, mostly to people we knew. They shouted for the covers and we resigned ourselves to the fact that we were not going to make it playing originals. Yes they were probably not great songs but being able to write catchy songs that people instantly like is difficult. You either have it or you don't. 

I wrote a heap of lyrics that I think are pretty good and gave them to our guitarist but he came up with a flat zero in musical accompaniment. 

[Dan Dare]

People like what they know. You can't blame them for that. If confronted with an entire set of "original material", many will not be thrilled. You have to be crafty and get them on your side by playing some decent covers and sprinkle your own stuff through the set (not introducing anything as original/yours - no sense in putting them on guard). It's very satisfying when people say things like "I like that song. Who was it by?" when it was one of yours. A guy I used to play with had a knack of writing songs you thought you'd heard before. Sometimes, people wouldn't believe it when we told them it was one of his, which was doubly satisfying.

[peteb]

24 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

 

This is the problem that faces lots of bands. We tried playing some of our own songs many years ago in our set but people were not interested. We even cut a demo and put a tape out (showing my age) and we sold about 30, mostly to people we knew. They shouted for the covers and we resigned ourselves to the fact that we were not going to make it playing originals. Yes they were probably not great songs but being able to write catchy songs that people instantly like is difficult. You either have it or you don't. 

I wrote a heap of lyrics that I think are pretty good and gave them to our guitarist but he came up with a flat zero in musical accompaniment. 

 

The thing is people go to see different types of live bands for different reasons.

 

If your original material intrigues me, then I will quite happily drive to a gig and pay a few quid to see you play on a proper stage. When I go to a pub gig, it's not just about the band. At a pub I want to see a decent band playing reasonably familiar songs (but ideally not the same ones as I heard last week) while I have a few beers and hang out with friends. My expectations, not to mention what I actually want from the night, are completely different to when I pay to see a band playing original material. 

 

[ubit]

We did integrate our songs with the covers. It was only two or three of our own that we played all night. We used to say up here if you play originals no one is interested. Down in the city if you play covers no one is interested. City crowds tend to like original bands more and they can build a following. When you are faced with the Dog and Duck every Friday you have no choice but to play what they want.

[TimR]

Popular songs follow the straight form of repetition with a hook. 

 

VCVCBVCC 

Within the verse the melody will repeat and the chorus will lift up and usually follow the same chords as the verse in a different progression. 

 

Get that right and by the second verse everything will sound familiar and people will enjoy what you're playing. 

 

Too many bands want to be 'original' and depart from this to be different. At a cost. 

[ubit]

20 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

A guy I used to play with had a knack of writing songs you thought you'd heard before.

 

 

You see this is the thing. You were with a guy who could write songs. How many  musicians are out there who are riding on the coat tails of someone who can write decent material that people like? I'm not saying these people are not talented but there's a difference between being decent on your instrument and having the gift of creativity.

[MacDaddy]

26 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

People like what they know. You can't blame them for that. If confronted with an entire set of "original material", many will not be thrilled. You have to be crafty and get them on your side by playing some decent covers and sprinkle your own stuff through the set (not introducing anything as original/yours - no sense in putting them on guard). It's very satisfying when people say things like "I like that song. Who was it by?" when it was one of yours.

*** A guy I used to play with had a knack of writing songs you thought you'd heard before. ***

Sometimes, people wouldn't believe it when we told them it was one of his, which was doubly satisfying.

 

you used to play with Noel Gallagher?

[BigRedX]

54 minutes ago, ubit said:

This is the problem that faces lots of bands. We tried playing some of our own songs many years ago in our set but people were not interested. We even cut a demo and put a tape out (showing my age) and we sold about 30, mostly to people we knew. They shouted for the covers and we resigned ourselves to the fact that we were not going to make it playing originals. Yes they were probably not great songs but being able to write catchy songs that people instantly like is difficult. You either have it or you don't. 

I wrote a heap of lyrics that I think are pretty good and gave them to our guitarist but he came up with a flat zero in musical accompaniment. 

 

IME writing songs is something that improves the more you do it. In fact once you've reached a certain standard it becomes harder because you want every new song you write to be even better than the last one. You didn't start playing the bass well enough to be in a band overnight so why should song writing be any different?

 

Also why rely on your guitarist to come up with musical ideas? You play a melodic instrument too.

[peteb]

20 minutes ago, TimR said:

Popular songs follow the straight form of repetition with a hook. 

 

VCVCBVCC 

Within the verse the melody will repeat and the chorus will lift up and usually follow the same chords as the verse in a different progression. 

 

Get that right and by the second verse everything will sound familiar and people will enjoy what you're playing. 

 

Too many bands want to be 'original' and depart from this to be different. At a cost. 

 

But the trouble is that this is why you get cookie cutter modern music and part of the reason why popular music doesn't have the same sway over the public's imagination and the staying power of music from the various 'golden eras'.

 

To take a couple of examples of well loved massive hits of the past that still get a reaction today, 'Wish You Were Here' & 'Don't Stop Believing' have hooks, but you don't hear the chorus until the end of the song. A slightly different example is that the Beatles hardly ever wrote a song using a variation of the I-V-IV-VI progression, which is ubiquitous in virtually all of today's manufactured pop hits.  

 

I'm not saying that there aren't great songs that follow the standard formula, but the fact that today's pop music is so disinclined to ever deviate from that formula is part of the reason it is so disposable and doesn't have the same effect on the yoof of today as it did people our age! 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by peteb