HughRichardson Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Hey guys! I had quite a few requests to do a video overview of the difference between active and passive basses so just wanted to drop this hear incase it can be of help to anyone. Enjoy! Hugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, HughRichardson said: I had quite a few requests to do a video overview of the difference between active and passive basses From whom? I didn't see any such requests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HughRichardson Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, jrixn1 said: From whom? I didn't see any such requests. Oh my bad for not saying. I have an Insta and Facebook page that I chat to bassist on. Should've said before lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 Dear Mr. Richardson, Your video includes some simplified basics and is surely a good and compact start. I will add few details here. A signal chain of a bass looks like this: pickups - blend - vol - tone - output If any of these components is lo-Z, the output is also lo-Z. It is very common, that the "active" (low impedance, or lo-Z) circuitry, is only the tone, which is easy to override/bypass with a simple switch. There are few systems that are lo-Z from the start to the output, like EMG with their BTS/BTC preamp, but usually not. Volume, blend and tone are cheap pots, that produce more noise than the pickups. Powering may be anything: single or double sided, 3 - 36 volts, from primary or secondary batteries, or an external power box. A simple circuitry that tells about battery level is not so rare and can be retrofitted easily. Parts do not cost much. Check the pdf: https://www.edn.com/design/test-and-measurement/4335671/Low-battery-indicator-uses-fleapower A lo-Z bass signal level can be lower, equal or higher that a hi-Z one. This has a lot to do with what the designer wanted from the preamp. Pickup output and height should be included in the mixture. Active, so lo-Z electronics include lots of different preamps, a bit like you said. Different filters, parametric eqs, etc. Noise is often related to bad shielding, or pickup choices (like single coils without the hum coils) - and there are noisy lo-Z circuits, there. Hi-Z ("passive") basses were used by the stars in the 1960's, as there were no alternatives. Alembic came big time only in the 1970's. I am pretty sure that Johann Sebastian B. would have tried synthesizers, if he would have had a possibility to play them. So has Sir McCartney played a Wal among others. I somehow think that the equipment does not restrict skilled fingers. One thing that is not discussed very much is that the bass signal becomes lo-Z latest in the first stage of the preamp. If the amp has high quality adjustments, is the bass better not to have any adjustments at all? I get the idea of having those inferior quality pots at hand in the bass but still... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmaster62 Posted July 19, 2019 Share Posted July 19, 2019 But can you play metal? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 Is Active or Passive better for playing metal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Skybone said: Is Active or Passive better for playing metal? Surely you have to be pretty active to play metal (all that thrashing, etc)? 😉 I’ll get my coat. Edited July 20, 2019 by ezbass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 6 hours ago, ezbass said: Surely you have to be pretty active to play metal (all that thrashing, etc)? 😉 I’ll get my coat. You're just being Passive Aggressive... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Hi Hugh, The video is informative and it's a good start, although it contains a few innacuracies that I hear being perpetuated, and a couple of points that I personally disagree about (but that's just my own view, of course), so I would have loved a slightly different take which covered those points... But of course, it's your video The first thing I would change is the active = higher output equation. You hear that everywhere and it's simply not true. Some active basses are high output, most are not, some are quieter than most passive basses. It depends on the preamp design and sometimes there's even a trim pot internally to adjust the output. Of course, if the active bass also has active EQ, and you boost it, you'll end up with one loud bass, which may explain this view of active=high output, but I think it's important to realise that it's not true. For the same reason, I hate seeing active/passive labels on amplifier inputs. In most cases, the passive input (non attenuated) works best for any given bass, but a guy with a Stingray would just plug into the active input without thinking... and on some amplifiers the attenuation circuit is pretty crude and not great sounding. The main thing with active basses is the low impedance output, as @itu pointed out. This allows you to be somewhat resistant (no pun intended ) to losses experienced when using long cables and passive instruments. However, your signal may become low impedance pretty early after leaving the bass if you use any number of pedals that would convert the signal. So it's not necessary to have an active bass to benefit from that, in principle. Some people talk about passive basses as being 'pure' but then the signal goes through pedals, often, through preamps and amplifying circuits... (shrug) I also see the equation active/passive as related to tone controls. It's true that most active basses have active EQ, but they're two different things. An active bass simply produces low impedance output. This can be achieved with or without active EQ. You may have EMG pickups (active) and passive tone controls (or no tone controls), or passive pickups and active EQ (most active basses), or an active preamp with separate tone controls, which could be passive, like on a G&L L2000. I think this is an important distinction to make. There's also the issue with passive = noisy. I just don't think that's correct. Most active basses are essentially passive basses with an additional active preamp with EQ capabilities. If anything, the chances of noise are higher on those because often the preamp designs are not terribly good, and they're limited to working with the voltage provided by one or two 9V batteries. A good preamp is very quiet, 'though. With regards to the use of batteries, the expense and chances of them dying mid-gig... I think that while not untrue, these factors are exaggerated. Expense: batteries are not that expensive, even if you buy singles at Sainsbury's, and they last a LONG time. I'd imagine most people spend far more on strings than on batteries. Just cut back one pint every few months and you'll be ok Dying mid-gig? Yes, it's a possibility... and it's happened to me. Once. On my Stingray. And boy, was I happy that I had a bypass switch installed on that bass (Stingrays don't have the active/passive option stock), as within a few seconds I was able to switch the bypass on, and carried on -albeit with a different tone- until we had a break and then changed the battery. However, it's very easy to avoid. Not fool-proof, as illustrated above (I'm a pretty good fool 😛 ) but it's simple: replace the battery at regular intervals,don't wait until it dies. Some preamps continue working fine until the battery reaches a threshold and just dies rapidly... others give you plenty of time with the signal degrading progressively. The best course is just to replace the battery before it happens. Most preamps would last a year if not a lot longer on a single Duracell battery (don't cheap out, cheap batteries almost invariable end up not being cheap at all). It depends on usage. My main bass, a Stingray, gets a lot of use and lasts well over a year. I replace it once a year (choose a date, stick to it, so you remember it easily). If I think I've been very busy and it was my only bass, I might change it twice a year. Other basses may last longer/shorter... whatever, choose a frequency whoch will be several months at the very least, and you will have no trouble. Of course, you may forget one time, like I did, and be on a specially busy period, like it was for me, and that battery died onstage after nearly 2 years. So having a bypass switch is never a bad idea. Another thing I'd add, which is related to the battery life, is to point out that the preamp is switched on by the act of inserting a cable into the socket. Some people leave basses plugged in constantly: that's using up the battery even if you don't play it. Switching it to 'passive' doesn't stop that, the preamp is still on. So always unplug. In fact, I'd say always unplug even on passive basses: saves someone tripping on a cable and pulling your bass down with it... But that's just me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 19/07/2019 at 01:57, HughRichardson said: Oh my bad for not saying. I have an Insta and Facebook page that I chat to bassist on. Should've said before lol Were you in a film with Nicole Kidman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) Have to say it's brave of you to post a video on here. Not sure about the comments on the basses. Don't most sound engineers like the bass to be passive so they know exactly what they're going to receive at the desk? I may be wrong? As for active being cleaner; isn't is really more a case of "noise in, noise out"? I would expect most on-board pre-amps are cheap and only amplify what you feed into them? So, a test on this isn't scientific test unless you test the same bass and pups with and without the pre-amp in circuit. (Others here know a lot more than I do on this). Something I found distracting was that, pretty much, no sentence in your speech ever went uncut. That's to say you seem to take a jump in the playback action whenever there's a fullstop or comma. I found that distracting. There are 30 such cuts in a 4.22 min video. (yep, it bothered me that much I counted them.) What can make this look more professional, is if you change the camera angle when you cut. Also, if you record a sentence and you have an after-thought, re-record the whole sentence again. Even 2 sentences, you may find you keep more followers as you'll be easier to watch. Good luck with the channel. Edited July 30, 2019 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acebassmusic Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Grangur said: Don't most sound engineers like the bass to be passive so they know exactly what they're going to receive at the desk? Sorry for going slightly off topic here but I have heard that phrase before and can't believe its true. Any sound engineer that uses that excuse has no idea what they are doing...."Ere.... sorry mate you'll have to remove all of your guitarists pedals as I don't know what to do with the output....it's not pure..........and as for yer mate on that there synthy thing-u-majig.....can't he just mime or summat?" 😮😁 As you were....😁 Edited July 30, 2019 by Acebassmusic 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mybass Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I’ve recorded in studios where the older experienced engineers didn't ask if the bass was passive or active, they just worked on the signal they got given and made a great job of recording it. Then there are studios where more inexperienced ‘engineers’ got into compressing and adulterating the signal beyond recognition. Because a person says they are a ‘sound engineer’ does not mean they are reliable or experienced enough at getting a good sound. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 hours ago, Acebassmusic said: Sorry for going slightly off topic here but I have heard that phrase before and can't believe its true. Any sound engineer that uses that excuse has no idea what they are doing...."Ere.... sorry mate you'll have to remove all of your guitarists pedals as I don't know what to do with the output....it's not pure..........and as for yer mate on that there synthy thing-u-majig.....can't he just mime or summat?" 😮😁 As you were....😁 +1 I think it's more a case of sometimes being asked to use a specific bass like a Precision. Not because it's passive, but because it's been so widely used in the past 50 years that it is a sound a lot of people are familiar with and like. But passive/active... I don't think it has any relevance. They record all sorts of signals, I doubt they'll suddenly trip because a bass is active. In a typical recording situation (shortish cables etc) I doubt it would make much difference at all anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 19/07/2019 at 01:39, jrixn1 said: From whom? I didn't see any such requests. Haha! You tell him! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, Unknown_User said: Haha! You tell him! I think it's cool that people make videos to give their thoughts or share knowledge. But from what I can tell, he just dumps his YouTube links on basschat and never contributes to the forum. For example, in this thread there have been many very good and detailed replies with more information, from people who know what they are talking about, but he does not return to discuss any of it. Something about it seems against the spirit of a forum. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 17 minutes ago, jrixn1 said: I think it's cool that people make videos to give their thoughts or share knowledge. But from what I can tell, he just dumps his YouTube links on basschat and never contributes to the forum. For example, in this thread there have been many very good and detailed replies with more information, from people who know what they are talking about, but he does not return to discuss any of it. Something about it seems against the spirit of a forum. All fair comments I suppose. It just made me chuckle that the first response was getting stuck in from the off! Don't give 'em time to settle! Definitely agree that there's been some good and informative replies. These forums are a great resource with lots of knowledgable people happy to share the fruits of their experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Maybe folk would like to post the answers on his Farcebook page? https://www.facebook.com/hughrichardsonmusic/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) I just looked at another of the videos by Hugh Richardson. He gives an elaborate description of the technique; involving twisting the whole of the forearm. He's clearly never watched a video of his own playing, because he doesn't actually do that when he's playing. It too has irritating cuts in the video action mid sentence, but hey... Edited July 31, 2019 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudewheresmybass Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 i also notice that there seems to have been no activity on his fb since feb 2016? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmaster62 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Doesn't matter who posts here. People still like to regularly shoot others down for no reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 On 31/07/2019 at 19:54, Jazzmaster62 said: Doesn't matter who posts here. People still like to regularly shoot others down for no reason. Really? Do you see evidence of that in this thread? Or did you just come here to shoot d... oh, I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 13 minutes ago, mcnach said: Really? Do you see evidence of that in this thread? Or did you just come here to shoot d... oh, I see. Hehe......! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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