geoham Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 So, I've decided I definitely want to move from my Zoom B3n to one of the Helix offering from Line6. I'm leaning towards the LT, with the Stomp also being considered. I'd appreciate the advice of anyone using either of these. I reckon the six blocks on the Stomp will probably be enough. I want to run an amp model with a cab (is this one block or two??), drive, chorus and octave. I'd also like to split the signal to keep a clean low end, and possibly even add a high pass filter. Where I have some concerns is switching between various effects with just two (or possibly three) footswitches. On a similar note, it seems a bit of a pain to switch patches without using an external footswitch. Compared to the Zoom, the Stomp would give a good bit more flexibility for signal routing (like being able to keep the lows clean), but wouldn't really be an improvement from a switching perspective. This attracts me to the LT, which like it resolves all of these problems - but also seems a bit overkill as well as costing a good bit more. However, if I consider the cost of a Stomp plus an external patch switcher, along with a small board to mount them to - it's a smaller gap. Final note - I'm not using an amp on stage. Currently just using the monitors to hear myself, but the band are considering in-ears. I double as sound-engineer for the band and we use our own PA, so I have total control of what's going on. So - to anyone using either of these devices, I'd love to hear about your experiences and feel free to try and convince me either way! Cheers, George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Personally, if you have no amp on stage, I would go all out on a full on Helix and enjoy it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Musicman20 said: Personally, if you have no amp on stage, I would go all out on a full on Helix and enjoy it! I have considered it, I honestly don't see any me getting any extra benefit from the full Helix vs the LT. I'd never use all the extra connectivity options, and I can live without the scribble-strips. Unless I'm missing something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Full. The extra connections are awesome for recording and it also has a mic pre so you can run vocals through it as well. It's also built better. Scribble strips are one of those things that you don't need... until you'e tried it and then wonder why everything doesn't have them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 https://www.musicradar.com/news/kemper-finally-releases-the-profiler-stage-floorboard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I bought a rack because back then there wasn't a stomp and the rack fit nicely into my 3u Kemper-sized hole. Buying a Helix today though? The Stomp for sure. When I use more than 6 or so blocks in a chain it's usually laziness and wanting everything in one patch. Recently though I've been creating patches that have certain feels 'Pick Rock' or 'Heavy Comp' or song-specific ones. In that case they're not usually more than 6. I'd have a Stomp and do the same thing, just use the internal switches to go up and down. To answer a question in your OP: In the Helices you can have preamp, amp, cab or amp+cab as one block depending on your preference and need. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 32 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: https://www.musicradar.com/news/kemper-finally-releases-the-profiler-stage-floorboard An interesting development! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) Don’t forget the Fractal pair the FM3 with FC6 and it’s a powerful unit Edited July 22, 2019 by Cuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I was always happy enough with the Zoom pedal for physical patch switching, and the Stomp's fine: Patch Up, Down and Tuner...all good. I have one set of patches for one band, and also copies of those patches for dropped keys in other bands. If I need more I'll just program them in... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Cuzzie said: https://www.musicradar.com/news/kemper-finally-releases-the-profiler-stage-floorboard They don't seem to pay much attention to bass though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 1 minute ago, fretmeister said: They don't seem to pay much attention to bass though. And it just looks so damn ugly! How's the Kemper on effects? I know how good it is on amp modelling.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 16 minutes ago, fretmeister said: They don't seem to pay much attention to bass though. May or may not change and they may get more on board but completely get your point Its all about options and then people can decide what is right for them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 6 hours ago, geoham said: So, I've decided I definitely want to move from my Zoom B3n to one of the Helix offering from Line6. I'm leaning towards the LT, with the Stomp also being considered. I'd appreciate the advice of anyone using either of these. I reckon the six blocks on the Stomp will probably be enough. I want to run an amp model with a cab (is this one block or two??), drive, chorus and octave. I'd also like to split the signal to keep a clean low end, and possibly even add a high pass filter. Where I have some concerns is switching between various effects with just two (or possibly three) footswitches. On a similar note, it seems a bit of a pain to switch patches without using an external footswitch. Compared to the Zoom, the Stomp would give a good bit more flexibility for signal routing (like being able to keep the lows clean), but wouldn't really be an improvement from a switching perspective. This attracts me to the LT, which like it resolves all of these problems - but also seems a bit overkill as well as costing a good bit more. However, if I consider the cost of a Stomp plus an external patch switcher, along with a small board to mount them to - it's a smaller gap. Final note - I'm not using an amp on stage. Currently just using the monitors to hear myself, but the band are considering in-ears. I double as sound-engineer for the band and we use our own PA, so I have total control of what's going on. So - to anyone using either of these devices, I'd love to hear about your experiences and feel free to try and convince me either way! Cheers, George You can run a single amp and cab block (you can mix and match the amps and cabs, you don't have to stick with the default cabs when you change amp, the only thing you can't do is mix and match guitar amps and cabs with bass amps and cabs within the single block) or you can use separate amp, cab or just pre-amp blocks. That will allow you to run a guitar amp into a bass cab, for example. Splitting your signal using a parallel path or a crossover does not eat into your block count, you can insert a parallel route (and mix the signals back together) at any point in the block chain. I use the Stomp and for my needs 6 blocks is more than enough, I have a core sound using 2 blocks; amp & cab in one and a compressor in another, then I use the other blocks for things like drive and the awesome Simple Pitch for detuning. Unless you're running crazy sounds or using loads of effects 6 blocks is plenty for most situations. For HPF you can always use the global EQ and set a low frequency cut off on the cab model. Both will save you having to add one on a dedicated block, although you can do still that if you want to. As for switching options you can use the Snapshot feature (it's worth reading up on this as it's very clever and such a simple idea) and you can also assign multiple blocks to a single foot-switch so you could switch several things on and off at once (or some on and some off) from a single tap. Again, it's all clever stuff! Likewise, I'm ampless on stage too, I use a couple of TRS to XLR cables to run both outputs, one to the desk and another to my wireless IEM transmitter. I picked up a used board for not much money and a Vein Tap double soft touch foot-switch for £25, so you don't need to add too much to the cost of the stomp if you decide to go down that route. Hope this helps 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Muppet said: And it just looks so damn ugly! How's the Kemper on effects? I know how good it is on amp modelling.... I think the floor kemper looks great! I switched to a helix because of the effects. The amps on the kemper really are indistinguishable from the real ones (I profiled a few of mine) but the effects are very basic and the routing within a patch is limited. Amps? Kemper! Versatility? Helix. Edited July 22, 2019 by Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted July 22, 2019 Author Share Posted July 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Muzz said: I was always happy enough with the Zoom pedal for physical patch switching, and the Stomp's fine: Patch Up, Down and Tuner...all good. I have one set of patches for one band, and also copies of those patches for dropped keys in other bands. If I need more I'll just program them in... What frustrates me in the Zoom is that you need to have the three switches assigned to three adjacent units. Particularly annoying with two block effects. I’ve tried using presets, like creating a base sound, then copying this a few times with various effects. The problem is that I start tweaking during rehearsals, and things diverge. (I know, I’m rubbish!) I actually think I could get on okay with the Stomp, I just get a bit concerned I’ll end up getting frustrated with the lack of switches and end up buying an LT anyway. So, let me ask another question - does anyone have a Stomp and feel frustrated by its limitations? George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 I'd vote for an LT over a Stomp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, geoham said: What frustrates me in the Zoom is that you need to have the three switches assigned to three adjacent units. Particularly annoying with two block effects. I’ve tried using presets, like creating a base sound, then copying this a few times with various effects. The problem is that I start tweaking during rehearsals, and things diverge. (I know, I’m rubbish!) I actually think I could get on okay with the Stomp, I just get a bit concerned I’ll end up getting frustrated with the lack of switches and end up buying an LT anyway. So, let me ask another question - does anyone have a Stomp and feel frustrated by its limitations? George Nope - I work on sounds at home (I'll borrow a PA top to get the EQ right, because I made the mistake at first of EQing for headphones, and it sounded ropey through the PA), make the odd tweak at rehearsals, and then save them as presets. It's very very easy from the laptop. Then I put them into a logical order (and I don't have THAT many, although I have several banks/iterations in different (dropped) keys...oh, and a differently-EQ'd set for if/when I'm using my rig - see above), and just use the Patch Up/Down switches to select. Simples. It has to be Simples, otherwise I get confused. I'm only a bassist, after all... Edit: that sounds more complicated than it is, so an example: I'll have a Rock Drive sound, then I'll copy it (and detune) to Rock Drive Eb in a run/bank of patches for Eb, then possibly Rock Drive D, then I'll have a Rock Drive Rig, with an EQ tweak. I'll never need all four on one gig, so I only ever work in one bank of possibly 8 presets per gig, each in the same order, all the Eb ones together, all the D ones together, all the Rig ones together. The next patch to Rock Drive might be Fretless, and in the Eb bank there'll be Fretless Eb, etc. Edited July 23, 2019 by Muzz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 23 hours ago, geoham said: Final note - I'm not using an amp on stage. Currently just using the monitors to hear myself, but the band are considering in-ears. I double as sound-engineer for the band and we use our own PA, so I have total control of what's going on. the LT or the full helix allows two inputs and two separate channels I think? If you're running the desk could one channel on the helix be for you, and the second act as an amp for a guitarist in your band (helping you switch to in ears) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I can offer my own experience (which may differ from everyone else needs) in that I have LT and actually bought HX Effects to give me a smaller set up. Yes, it was utterly brilliant and I loved it, but ultimately, LT won me over as there was a few things I missed. Then I actually started to learn how to use LT and realised there was so much more on offer that I hadn't tapped in to. So, Stomp would be a great little dude to use for smaller set ups. Full-Fat Helix would be a nice to have but I don't know yet if I need the extra functions it offers. LT thus sat nicely within budget and needs. (Thank you 24 months interest free credit that I have just finished paying off!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 27 minutes ago, LukeFRC said: the LT or the full helix allows two inputs and two separate channels I think? If you're running the desk could one channel on the helix be for you, and the second act as an amp for a guitarist in your band (helping you switch to in ears) That's definitely an interesting idea. He's very old school, insists on using a 4x12 stack, refuses to have a mic in front of it - because it 'fills the room' on its own, and to have anything coming back via the monitors will cause feedback. The result is a guitar-heavy sound for those immediately in front of him, whereas others can't barely hear it. Including me. We're all working on trying to enlighten him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 1 hour ago, geoham said: We're all working on trying to enlighten him! That would undoubtedly help your band infinitely more than you buying a helix would. To address you 'divergence issue: with the Helix software on PC you can copy and paste individual blocks. So you can tweak an amp in one preset and then c/p it to other patches. You can c/p blocks using the actual helix too, but I'm not sure I've ever done that between patches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 3 hours ago, geoham said: That's definitely an interesting idea. He's very old school, insists on using a 4x12 stack, refuses to have a mic in front of it - because it 'fills the room' on its own, and to have anything coming back via the monitors will cause feedback. The result is a guitar-heavy sound for those immediately in front of him, whereas others can't barely hear it. Including me. We're all working on trying to enlighten him! A helix for the bass is the least of your problems! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swijn Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 I've literally today just taken delivery of a new Helix LT. My band runs IEM's, so I can now convincingly go completely amp-less too. My two guitarists also have the LT and it is truly an awesome piece of kit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoham Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share Posted July 23, 2019 7 hours ago, LukeFRC said: A helix for the bass is the least of your problems! Oh I know! The keyboard player and I just ditched our amps. We will get the guitarist onboard too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tandark Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) Potential Option 3? Buy stomp and HX Effects. Gives you a modular set up, smaller footprint, access extra functionality in the stomp by using the HXe as a midi controller. Just add the cheap L6 expression pedal and you're good to go... Edited July 24, 2019 by tandark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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