honza992 Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 (edited) Rethink time. I just can't get the ebano binding bent round the lower horn, even with heat and water and thicknessed down to 1.5mm. I'm a bit surprised but there you go. So, I've redesigned the lower horn so it's sharp, a bit like the Gibson ES-295, if a bit less ugly (I hope anyway). I've ended up rather liking it. The advantage is that the binding can be cut and mitred, rather than bent. Not that I've ever done a mitre joint in binding (or indeed anywhere else) before, but I;m sure it's time I did.... So the template is finished: Let me know what you think😁 Oh, and I'm not using a mortise/tenon joint which would be normal for a Gibson LP. Instead I'm going to leave the neck at full width like an SG. Looking at neck joints purely from an engineering point of view, I'm not the Gibson mortise/tenon brings much to the party, other than tradition and a requirement for precision chiseling. With the full width neck joint (in effect I guess the whole neck is the tenon) I can use my standard neck pocket method, and should be plenty strong enough. I hope🙄 Edited August 20, 2019 by honza992 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I like the extra security you get from a tenon type joint, the shoulders add just a bit extra mechanical strength... BUT... unless you intend swinging it around by the neck... Watch out for excess glue squeezing out, mask the body top and the fret board before final assembly. The binding mitre is easy, calculate the angle at the tip of the join where the two tangents meet, then make an angled block enough to support a chisel or a sanding block to trim the end. Do the main body side first then the cut out bit you can fiddle with in the same way until the join is perfect. The mitre is the most difficult part so start the glueing there and work away 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Thanks Christine, that makes sense. I'll give it a go😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 22, 2019 Author Share Posted August 22, 2019 Bit of progress on the neck pocket. First up, hogging.... I make my pocket templates individually for each guitar I do. It doesn't take that long but does need a router table. Basically I clamp the neck on to a piece of 12mm MDF, then stick down 3 straight edges using double sided tape, pushing them up against the neck to get the shape. If you haven't got 3 straight edges then 3 pieces of MDF cut straight work just as well. Once they are stuck down the I use a guided bit in the router table to cut the template to shape. The advantage of this technique is that you are using the neck itself to shape the template. Once that;s done I then cut two piece of MDF on the radial arm saw at an angle of 2 degrees. These will provide the angle needed to cut the neck pocket. So the template is finished: 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 27, 2019 Author Share Posted August 27, 2019 Continuing with the nect pocket, first up I clamp the neck down into its approximate position, then put two straight edges in place down the side of the neck. I then move the neck around until the straight edges are the same distance from the centre line. I then clamp the neck down firmly. I then put the template over the top of the neck and glue it down using the superglue/masking tape trick which holds really, really secure. The neck can then be removed and the pocket routed.... And the final pocket. A couple of things. First off I would put two layers of masking tape around the inside of the template to make the routed neck pocket a tiny bit smaller. This time I used only one layer and it wasn't quite enough. The pocket is tight enough for epoxy glue, but I wouldn't want to use hot hide glue which needs a pretty tight fit, as I understand it. Second, I wasn't able to rout quite as deeply as I would like. It's not an issue because I'm using a neck which is pretty long, much longer than a standard LP joint, so there's plenty of surface to glue, but aesthetically I would have liked it a bit deeper. I'll have a rethink for next time..... Oh and I know it still looks pretty awful at the moment. Scruffy as hell. Next step is to rout the body to shape, which should hopefully improve it's appearance no end😀 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 Right, the body is routed to shape and a bit of tidying up around the lower horn and I have this: The neck heel will have more wood glued on to make it thicker, but just to check my neck angle is correct, I put a 6mm mdf shim in the neck pocket then used a straight edge to check height at the bridge.... My plan said 7.8mm, so 8mm is pretty much spot on. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 That was a difficult rout, it's turned out very well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, Christine said: That was a difficult rout, it's turned out very well Thanks Christine. I have no skill with hand planes but can rout virtually anything! Though part of me wishes it was the other way round🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, honza992 said: Thanks Christine. I have no skill with hand planes but can rout virtually anything! Though part of me wishes it was the other way round🙄 I've been looking at that cut out for ages and seeing splinters of wood and break out all over the shop in my mind. I would have! It's really turned out well on that intersection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 I spent ages trying to work out how to get a neat 'join' where the fretboard, nut and headstock veneer meet. It's the sort of thing that drives me mad if it's not perfect. In the end I decided to sand the headstock 'veneer' (3mm of ebano and w/b/w veneers) like this, setting up the platform in front of the sanding disc at the same angle as the headstock, about 13 degrees. That meant when the headstock and nut meet, they're both vertical: I then glued the headstock veneer on, using my normal brad nail technique to stop it slipping around. I've started using these spring clamps more and more after I saw a B&G video that showed them using 20 of them to glue on a fretboard. They seem to provide plently of pressure but are really quick and easy to use. I'll be doing the same.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Something I learnt to do years ago with aliphatic glues like titebond, similar to using hide glues where you can rub the glued surfaces together until they get a grip of each other (with hide glue you can leave it like that) just make sure when you get that gripping that the pieces are in the right position then put a clamp on the bit that's stuck first, it wont move anywhere, once that first one is on you can put on the others as needed. Might come in handy sometime, it saves me a lot of grief when I'm glueing slippery bits 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Christine said: Something I learnt to do years ago with aliphatic glues like titebond, similar to using hide glues where you can rub the glued surfaces together until they get a grip of each other (with hide glue you can leave it like that) just make sure when you get that gripping that the pieces are in the right position then put a clamp on the bit that's stuck first, it wont move anywhere, once that first one is on you can put on the others as needed. Might come in handy sometime, it saves me a lot of grief when I'm glueing slippery bits Ah, thanks for that. I've always wondered how people glue with titebond without it slithering around like Torvil and Dean. I'll try it next time, cheers! Edit: Oh and is that just for titebond, or Epoxy as well? When I'm dong veneers, that's turned into my glue of choice, titebond introduces too much water and warping for my liking.... Edited August 29, 2019 by honza992 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 While building the topic of 'finishing' looms large, as it were, in the back of my mind. Some of you may know that I'm an active member of Extinction Rebellion. I've already stopped buying exotic wood, and I'm trying to review all of my building processes to see if I can make them more environmentally friendly. With that in mind I've decided my finishing from now on will be with shellac. Or at least the top coat will be shellac. Grainfill will be Epoxy.....which I know isn't ideal, but it uses I tiny amount and reduces the amount of finish that is required. Or at least that is my plan for now. Like all my plans, it's likely to have a very limited shelf life..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 10 hours ago, honza992 said: Ah, thanks for that. I've always wondered how people glue with titebond without it slithering around like Torvil and Dean. I'll try it next time, cheers! Edit: Oh and is that just for titebond, or Epoxy as well? When I'm dong veneers, that's turned into my glue of choice, titebond introduces too much water and warping for my liking.... Just Titebond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 hours ago, honza992 said: Edit: Oh and is that just for titebond, or Epoxy as well? When I'm dong veneers, that's turned into my glue of choice, titebond introduces too much water and warping for my liking.... For headstock plates I use Titebond. For actual veneers (0.6mm) I use the Evostick (green bottle) PVA wood glue ironed on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted September 2, 2019 Author Share Posted September 2, 2019 (edited) I've routed the binding channels, and got a couple of options. The first is black with a cream line inside, the second adds a couple of very thin white lines round the edge. They don't quite match in colour, but I'm not sure how much that matters. Anyone have an opinion? You may be wondering why I've covered the top (and back) in tape......The walnut veneer is 0.6mm thick which means there is very very (very) little margin for error in terms of how much sanding I can do. So when I'm routing (or actually pretty much all the time) I put the tape there just to provide the veneer with a tiny bit of protection. Edited September 2, 2019 by honza992 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pea Turgh Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Ooh, all the lines! More lines! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 Wot he said. Then split the binding along the length and add another strip in the middle 😜 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 15 hours ago, honza992 said: I've routed the binding channels, and got a couple of options. The first is black with a cream line inside, the second adds a couple of very thin white lines round the edge. They don't quite match in colour, but I'm not sure how much that matters. Anyone have an opinion? I particularly like the second one but, to be honest, they both look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted September 3, 2019 Share Posted September 3, 2019 +1 for the second one. It all looks amazing so far. Looking forward to seeing the finished article! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted September 5, 2019 Author Share Posted September 5, 2019 Wow, double binding the body, neck and headstock, is taking ages! I'm still only about a third of the way through, so to take a break from trying to get titebond sodden tape off my thumbs, I routed the headstock slots......hmmmmm...... Cutting them was slightly precarious: But I think they look lush: 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 I keep looking at those feature lines on the neck and scarf...in fact, everywhere! This is going to be absolutely splendid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: I keep looking at those feature lines on the neck and scarf...in fact, everywhere! This is going to be absolutely splendid. Unfortunately I've just glued binding on to the headstock so some of those lines will get covered up😮 Luckily I'm adding in 3 new sets of lines with the binding😀 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si600 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Are you binding the inside faces of those headstock slots...? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honza992 Posted September 7, 2019 Author Share Posted September 7, 2019 6 hours ago, Si600 said: Are you binding the inside faces of those headstock slots...? Believe me, I've thought of it! But I think I've decided to leave them unbound so the white/black/white in the scarf joint is reflected in the headstock slots.....though it was a bit of a battle with my natural inclination to bind everything in sight. Mrs Honza is a bit bored of it......🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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