lozkerr Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said: I've never seen anyone put an extension on top of a combo. No reason not to, I suppose... It's (literally) painfully simple - I'm not strong enough to lift the Metro onto the 118 cab. That's the only reason, and aye, it does look odd. But I have the feeble body of a woman... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 And there's me thinking the tone of the 15" was just sweeter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozkerr Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 hours ago, dmccombe7 said: And there's me thinking the tone of the 15" was just sweeter. It's actually an 18" cab, and it makes one hell of a difference to the tone. The low end sounds really full and warm compared to just using the 210 in the Metro. I have been toying with dividing the Metro into a separate head and cab. It's not a real combo - the only connection between the amp and cab is a bog-standard speaker lead. Might make it easier to lug about and the 210 would certainly look better on top of the 118. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) I use Ashdown RM gear. My favourote multi cab option was two 15" cabs. The Mrs had a bit of a dig about the amount of gear I had so I sold one and instantly regretted it, but then bought a 2x10 just because. I like using the 2x10 on its own as a single cab solution but when I take both, which is very often, I found I preferred having two fifteens. There was just more depth and fullness to the sound. I am toying with the idea of having just a single 4x10 from the Rrotmaster series in the hope that it gives me what I want tone and volume wise but is only a single cab, but I'm reluctant to try. Partly because I like the idea of having a stack of speakers behind me, I feel a bit less of a man when I only take a single cab... Funny enough my drummer says more surface area = more volume... My two fifteens (30 inches of speaker) set up was louder I think than my fifteen plus two x ten (35 inches of speaker). While I understand where he's coming from I think that's not completely true... Anybody know the answer? Edited July 31, 2019 by uk_lefty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I’ve just reacquired two Ashdown RM210s that I sold a while back. I’ve had to acknowledge that my ABM cabs, no matter how much I love them are just that bit too much for me now - I hurt my back/shoulder a couple of weeks back carrying the 410 down my stairs. Won’t look as impressive as a 410 & 210 stack but it’s not that often I use my own cab(s) anyway, think only twice this year so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 31 minutes ago, uk_lefty said: I use Ashdown RM gear. My favourote multi cab option was two 15" cabs. The Mrs had a bit of a dig about the amount of gear I had so I sold one and instantly regretted it, but then bought a 2x10 just because. I like using the 2x10 on its own as a single cab solution but when I take both, which is very often, I found I preferred having two fifteens. There was just more depth and fullness to the sound. I am toying with the idea of having just a single 4x10 from the Rrotmaster series in the hope that it gives me what I want tone and volume wise but is only a single cab, but I'm reluctant to try. Partly because I like the idea of having a stack of speakers behind me, I feel a bit less of a man when I only take a single cab... Funny enough my drummer says more surface area = more volume... My two fifteens (30 inches of speaker) set up was louder I think than my fifteen plus two x ten (35 inches of speaker). While I understand where he's coming from I think that's not completely true... Anybody know the answer? Don't know the exact theoretical answer but for me you feel 15"'s more than 10's so perhaps you just felt as tho they were louder. Just a thought Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Yeah, everyone’s hearing works in different ways, our singer can’t stand cymbals, they really overload his ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 oddly enough its the vocals that overload my ears when too loud. Guitar, bass or drums even keys i never have a prob with but certain male vocals in certain songs i just start to feel uncomfortable. Not the actual singing of course just the frequencies. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_lefty Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said: Don't know the exact theoretical answer but for me you feel 15"'s more than 10's so perhaps you just felt as tho they were louder. Just a thought Dave I think that's it but I know nothing of the science... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said: Funny enough my drummer says more surface area = more volume... My two fifteens (30 inches of speaker) set up was louder I think than my fifteen plus two x ten (35 inches of speaker). While I understand where he's coming from I think that's not completely true... Anybody know the answer? Yes. It's not the diameter, it's the surface area. So: Surface area of a circle is pi(3.142) x r(radius, 1/2 diameter)squared(x itself). A 15" speaker gives you 3.142 x 7.5 x 7.5 = 176.7375 square inches x 2 (you have two of them) = 343.75 surface area in square inches for your 2x15" rig. A 10" speaker gives you 3.142 x 5 x 5 = 78.55 square inches x 2 = 157.1 plus 1 x 15" as above (176.735) = 333.875 surface area in square inches for your 1x15" plus 2x10" rig. So actually you have more speaker area with two fifteens than you do with 1x15 and 2x10. Just under 3% : enough to hear the difference......... let battle commence! And yes, I'm well aware that the different size speakers will work differently, and different drivers themselves work differently so simply comparing the surface area is valueless. I'm simply pointing out that the op's method of calculating "speaker" is not quite right, and the drummer is technically right although Alex Claber might have something to say about it! Edited July 31, 2019 by phil.c60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, phil.c60 said: Yes. It's not the diameter, it's the surface area. So: Surface area of a circle is pi(3.142) x r(radius, 1/2 diameter)squared(x itself). A 15" speaker gives you 3.142 x 7.5 x 7.5 = 176.7375 square inches x 2 (you have two of them) = 343.75 surface area in square inches for your 2x15" rig. A 10" speaker gives you 3.142 x 5 x 5 = 78.55 square inches x 2 = 157.1 plus 1 x 15" as above (176.735) = 333.875 surface area in square inches for your 1x15" plus 2x10" rig. So actually you have more speaker area with two fifteens than you do with 1x15 and 2x10. Just under 3% : enough to hear the difference......... let battle commence! And yes, I'm well aware that the different size speakers will work differently, and different drivers themselves work differently so simply comparing the surface area is valueless. I'm simply pointing out that the op's method of calculating "speaker" is not quite right, and the drummer is technically right although Alex Claber might have something to say about it! Thanks for that Phil but that wasn't my quote you replied to so no idea what's happened there. I was curious to know tho so much appreciated and that makes a lt of sense. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I must confess to some apprehension when I heard that Mr Alister Jack would be replacing Mr David Mundell as Minister for Scotland. It's important that he build bridges with the Welsh Secretary Mr Alun Cairns who remains in office. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said: Thanks for that Phil but that wasn't my quote you replied to so no idea what's happened there. I was curious to know tho so much appreciated and that makes a lt of sense. Dave Your welcome. I think it's because I lifted my quote from your quote of the op so I suppose the system assumed it was your post. Sorry - I probably should have taken it from the original! Phil Edited July 31, 2019 by phil.c60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, skankdelvar said: I must confess to some apprehension when I heard that Mr Alister Jack would be replacing Mr David Mundell as Minister for Scotland. It's important that he build bridges with the Welsh Secretary Mr Alun Cairns who remains in office. Well, Skank, I know you are well known for off the wall and often surreal postings only tangentially related to the subject of the thread but you've got me with this one......no, wait a moment, I've just got there. sorry, it's been a tough day. Edited July 31, 2019 by phil.c60 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 7 minutes ago, phil.c60 said: Your welcome. I think it's because I lifted my quote from your quote of the op so it assumed it was your post. Sorry - I probably should have taken it from the original! Phil no probs at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinnyman Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 37 minutes ago, phil.c60 said: Well, Skank, I know you are well known for off the wall and often surreal postings only tangentially related to the subject of the thread but you've got me with this one......no, wait a moment, I've just got there. sorry, it's been a tough day. Cabinet combinations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 30/07/2019 at 21:47, lozkerr said: I bet it's a featherweight compared to this lot. Aye, it's bloody heavy but the tone is gorgeous. Is that an eighteen on top? Nice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I find the comments here are interesting because I have an Ashdown Toneman 300 with its fifteen inch cone sat on top of a Trace Elliot 18 inch extension cab. I have ONLY ever used this rig in practice at home. I have no tweeters and I use flats for the most part. I turn down the treble and boost the upper mids to get the sound (and feel) that I like best. Then I play to stereo tracks through two Carlsbro Marlin PA150s each with a 200W Celestion wedge. I do not honestly know how good (or bad) it would perform at gig volumes and in a decent space. In my small practice room/workshop it is barely ever above "idling speed" but it makes the tools shake in their hangers on the wall. I like it. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lozkerr Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, SpondonBassed said: Is that an eighteen on top? Nice. It is! Bought on Marketplace a few months back. I doubt if it would be ideal as a single cab but it sounds lovely alongside the 210. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, phil.c60 said: Yes. It's not the diameter, it's the surface area. It's not the surface area, it's the volume. That is, the area multiplied by the cone excursion (Xmax). So a 12" with a big Xmax could be louder than a 15" with a smaller Xmax. Any advance on volume? We'd have to go to four dimensions... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 8 hours ago, tauzero said: It's not the surface area, it's the volume. That is, the area multiplied by the cone excursion (Xmax). So a 12" with a big Xmax could be louder than a 15" with a smaller Xmax. Any advance on volume? We'd have to go to four dimensions... Point taken, but that's why I said that it's different for different drivers. If the drivers are all the same, ie the xmax is the same, then comparing the surface area is sufficient as the xmax cancels out on both sides of the equation (in fact xmax/3 for the volume of a cone if you want to be precise) and in fact you could, for the same reasons, leave pi out as well and just compare the r squared but I was simply trying to demonstrate that adding up the diameters is entirely the wrong calculation. And yes, for different types of driver you do need to add response times in as well, and a whole host of other factors outside my knowledge, but that's why Alex does what he does, and I do what I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 12 hours ago, SpondonBassed said: I find the comments here are interesting because I have an Ashdown Toneman 300 with its fifteen inch cone sat on top of a Trace Elliot 18 inch extension cab. I have ONLY ever used this rig in practice at home. I have no tweeters and I use flats for the most part. I turn down the treble and boost the upper mids to get the sound (and feel) that I like best. Then I play to stereo tracks through two Carlsbro Marlin PA150s each with a 200W Celestion wedge. I do not honestly know how good (or bad) it would perform at gig volumes and in a decent space. In my small practice room/workshop it is barely ever above "idling speed" but it makes the tools shake in their hangers on the wall. I like it. I can vouch that its sounds very nice. Briefly had me flirting with the idea of flatwounds, but when I walked out in the rain it brought me to my senses 🙂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) I assume that all of you who are experimenting with different cabinet combinations are only playing pub gigs with vocal only PAs? BTW do you check what your bass sounds like all around the venue, or just where you are going to be stood on "stage"? Edited August 1, 2019 by BigRedX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, BigRedX said: I assume that all of you who are experimenting with different cabinet combinations are only playing pub gigs with vocal only PAs? BTW do you check what your bass sounds like all around the venue, or just where you are going to be stood on "stage"? Can you show me a definitive proof that 'matched cabs' are superior? I can't think of a single argument that stands up, because any issue, aside from wrongly phased speakers, can apply equally to a pair of identical cabs. (P.S. if unmatched cabs don't work together, someone had better tell the PA professionals....) Edited August 1, 2019 by Stub Mandrel 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nilebodgers Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said: ..... (P.S. if unmatched cabs don't work together, someone had better tell the PA professionals....) That's not a valid comparison though, in pro PA different sizes and types of drivers have crossovers/processing to ensure they work together. Also multiple drivers of the same type often have processing which varies with the number of drivers to get the overall required target response. (e.g. line length in multi-cabinet line arrays) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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