Microtubes X Ultra

[fretmeister]

9 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Haha! Me and other DG amp owners don't always gig in daft jumpers.

IIRC Osiris you did try the DG M900 for like 23 mins in a store, so didn't really put it through its paces?

Clean channel really is very good: I've come to appreciate that when 'clean' means 'clean' I can hear what my bass sounds like underneath. The power on tap is immense - you're never going to lack for headroom.

Wiser folk have been rabbiting on forever about how a touch of 'always on' dirt adds to the sound - I'm finally (18 months in) starting to appreciate what they have been getting at. With the B3K at 2/10 and P or PJ pups it adds a bit of compressed harmonic complexity (with built in hpf) to the bass tone which just lets the bass cut through a bit more in a band mix. 

I guess I've gone from skeptic about this amp to concluding that it's actually a very very good piece of kit. 

Speak for yourself...

 

 

 

[Musicman20]

10 minutes ago, Kev said:

Unsure if you are being facetious or not, but I was just making the point that it becomes a little tiresome to hear the same complaints over and over with some small successful manufacturers, as opposed to at the very least fresh criticism or feedback on new features etc.  Barefaced is the same and many others.  Nature of the beast I guess as you say!

 

I think you'll see the same for a lot of tech, including manufacturers like Apple.

[Al Krow]

6 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Speak for yourself...

 

 

 

While gigging in the summer heat and when not actually playing rock?! (Pls remind me what genre you play through your BF one10s?)

In which case Osiris has a point...

[fretmeister]

christmas show only - big band mostly. But I'll jump in with any of the ensembles as needed.

 

There is a rock one - but it's 1970s ish rather than brewtal metal!

[Dapper Bandit]

I suppose all this raises the question of how much scope there is in overdrive?  I would say that DG are certainly in the top tier of companies building bass-specific overdrive pedals, this much is obvious to anyone, surely.  Doug is not cranking out rat clones with a couple of caps changed out.

They are trying to offer something at every price point, no one is under any obligation to buy every model that comes out or to trade up although I daresay DG would not be averse to collectors!  It would be extremely irritating if you'd saved up for an X7 only for an Ultra to be released shortly after, I would imagine, but it you're a dedicated follower then you would probably have seen it coming and held out accordingly.

The sad thing is DG are releasing increasingly complicated pedals that are being used to hone in on one sound that you hear all over one particular genre.

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

christmas show only - big band mostly. But I'll jump in with any of the ensembles as needed.

There is a rock one - but it's 1970s ish rather than brewtal metal!

Entirely appropriate garment wear then!  

Anyway connecting your jumper to the thread: fortunately I already have plenty of EQ options on bass, HX Stomp and amp so there is no chance in Hell's bells that I will ever be forking out £300 to £400 on any of the DG overpriced ultra pedals.

Seamless 😁

 

[fretmeister]

I keep coming back to my B3K V2.

 

I like the simplicity of it, and it takes up minimal space on my board.

[Al Krow]

Just now, fretmeister said:

I keep coming back to my B3K V2.

 

I like the simplicity of it, and it takes up minimal space on my board.

But the gaps in your posts take up an inordinate amount of space on our screens! 😁

I'm guessing that makes sense when using your newly acquired red and gold MB finery. But I presume absolutely no need with your DG M900 where you have this in the amp already?

[fretmeister]

Actually in the M900 I quite like to stack them. If I'm using a tone that needs a touch of grit on all the time but then needs to be increased then a pedal is far easier than knob twiddling.

I did like stacking the original AO into a B3K (pedal or amp) too - I much preferred it to the AO on it's own. But I don't play that sort of metal so I sold the AO in the end.

[dannybuoy]

The pedal still has merit over the M900 - the grunt (AKA pre-distortion bass boost) is on permanently in the amp, I prefer the it off for a tighter sound.

[Al Krow]

21 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

The pedal still has merit over the M900 - the grunt (AKA pre-distortion bass boost) is on permanently in the amp, I prefer the it off for a tighter sound.

Or you could just cut your bass EQ if you want less bass? 

I find that full-on DG dirt drains low end and can leave your tone sounding insipid (dare I say metal) if you're not careful, particularly with J basses.

So either clean blend or bass boost is very welcome to preserve the bottom end.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Al Krow

[Osiris]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

IIRC Osiris you did try the DG M900 for like 23 mins in a store, so didn't really put it through its paces?

Clean channel really is very good: I've come to appreciate that when 'clean' means 'clean' I can hear what my bass sounds like underneath. The power on tap is immense - you're never going to lack for headroom.

Wiser folk have been rabbiting on forever about how a touch of 'always on' dirt adds to the sound - I'm finally (18 months in) starting to appreciate what they have been getting at. With the B3K at 2/10 and P or PJ pups it adds a bit of compressed harmonic complexity (with built in hpf) to the bass tone which just lets the bass cut through a bit more in a band mix. 

I guess I've gone from skeptic about this amp to concluding that it's actually a very very good piece of kit. 

Indeed I did only try the DG amp for 20-30 minutes or so. However, if you go back and read my original review where I compared it against some of its peers, you'll see that I actually championed the clean channel. I've been playing for more than 30 years and I have a good idea of what I want form an amp and how to get it. With the DG amp I was able to get the clean sound that I go for in a matter seconds, the pre-amp is great and has a versatile and intuitive EQ. I liked it a lot.

However, as I said then and am saying again now, I couldn't get a drive sound that I was happy with, then or now. And if I can't get what I want after 20 minutes or more fiddling then whatever I'm using at that time clearly isn't right for me. Imagine trying to problem solve your sound in 20 seconds on the gig if you can't get what you want in 20 minutes without any other distractions!?!?  That's why I ended up with the Genzler Magellan, there was much less control (and indeed gain) on the drive channel but it had exactly the sound I want; smooth and silky, mid rich low gain drive - the very antithesis of what DG drive sounds like whenever I use it. But maybe that's all in my podgy fingers? 

Drive is a very personal thing but I find that even on low gain settings the B7K sound obliterates my low mids and replaces them with shrill high mids and treble. Trying to EQ them back in just doesn't sound good to me ears. But this is just my opinion and my experience, everyone else has their own. If it works for you, that's great. But it doesn't work for me. I like it when I hear it, but it just sounds utter 💩 when I try it. 

 

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Haha! Me and other DG amp owners don't always gig in daft jumpers.

The word on the street is that you prefer comfortable white slacks to daft jumpers 

[Al Krow]

43 minutes ago, Osiris said:

The word on the street is that you prefer comfortable white slacks to daft jumpers 

Comfort, portability, clean amps.

I guess I personify what rock n roll has become and why it's destined to become extinct. 

Hell's bells beckon.

[dannybuoy]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Or you could just cut your bass EQ if you want less bass? 

I find that full-on DG dirt drains low end and can leave your tone sounding insipid (dare I say metal) if you're not careful, particularly with J basses.

So either clean blend or bass boost is very welcome to preserve the bottom end.

Too much low end going into the overdrive section makes things sounded bloated though, it changes the nature of the drive. Especially with a high output bass, it's best to cut the lows going into the drive and use blend and EQ to bring it back. That's why the Geddy pedal has a tight switch, and the DP3X and Darkglass X range use crossovers.

And fully agree about not liking full on dirt, as a base tone at least - I never have the gain above 9-10 o'clock on my B3K or when I had the M900.

 

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Too much low end going into the overdrive section makes things sounded bloated though, it changes the nature of the drive.

Ah yes, fair enough, I forgot you don't have the option to cut your bass EQ on your passive BB 1025X, in the way that active basses would easily allow, to trim the bass going into the drive section.

FWIW for the sake of balance I find the B3K can work fine as a full on dirt with my BB 1025 PJ - I appreciate you and I differ on that one.

But I find it too toppy / fizzy when used full on with J basses and for which the fulsome bottom ended Grizzly Bass pedal comes into its own. Another matter you and I differ on!  

Edited August 2, 2019 by Al Krow

[dannybuoy]

1 hour ago, Osiris said:

Indeed I did only try the DG amp for 20-30 minutes or so. However, if you go back and read my original review where I compared it against some of its peers, you'll see that I actually championed the clean channel. I've been playing for more than 30 years and I have a good idea of what I want form an amp and how to get it. With the DG amp I was able to get the clean sound that I go for in a matter seconds, the pre-amp is great and has a versatile and intuitive EQ. I liked it a lot.

However, as I said then and am saying again now, I couldn't get a drive sound that I was happy with, then or now. And if I can't get what I want after 20 minutes or more fiddling then whatever I'm using at that time clearly isn't right for me. Imagine trying to problem solve your sound in 20 seconds on the gig if you can't get what you want in 20 minutes without any other distractions!?!?  That's why I ended up with the Genzler Magellan, there was much less control (and indeed gain) on the drive channel but it had exactly the sound I want; smooth and silky, mid rich low gain drive - the very antithesis of what DG drive sounds like whenever I use it. But maybe that's all in my podgy fingers? 

Drive is a very personal thing but I find that even on low gain settings the B7K sound obliterates my low mids and replaces them with shrill high mids and treble. Trying to EQ them back in just doesn't sound good to me ears. But this is just my opinion and my experience, everyone else has their own. If it works for you, that's great. But it doesn't work for me. I like it when I hear it, but it just sounds utter 💩 when I try it. 

 

The word on the street is that you prefer comfortable white slacks to daft jumpers 

I didn't get in with the B3K/B7K either until I listened to it in the context of a full rock/metal mix. It also helps to have a bass that has a similar EQ profile to start with - like a Jazz with both pickups on rather than a Precision. I find it has the cut and boost in just the right places to leave breathing room for the guitars and vocals but cut through higher up the frequency range. Any shrillness or fizziness tends to disappear in the mix, especially if you don't have tweeters!

[dannybuoy]

30 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Ah yes, fair enough, I forgot you don't have the option to cut your bass EQ on your passive BB 1025X, in the way that active basses would easily allow, to trim the bass going into the drive section.

That wouldn't quite work for me - I don't want to cut bass at the source, I want to split the signal first and only cut the bass going into the distortion side, and the full low end going into the clean side!

[Osiris]

14 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

I didn't get in with the B3K/B7K either until I listened to it in the context of a full rock/metal mix. It also helps to have a bass that has a similar EQ profile to start with - like a Jazz with both pickups on rather than a Precision. I find it has the cut and boost in just the right places to leave breathing room for the guitars and vocals but cut through higher up the frequency range. Any shrillness or fizziness tends to disappear in the mix, especially if you don't have tweeters!

That's fair enough. I'm not playing metal these days, and when I have in the past it's been old school Black Sabbath using a Precision, but for that type stuff you want the bass sitting underneath everything else. And for that you need the big fat low mids, but unfortunately those juicy low mids seem to be nowhere to be found whenever I go near anything DarkGlass. But, of course, we're effectively talking about different genres of music. Horses for courses. 

[Cuzzie]

My perception of the drive is that if you have the bass as almost the primary instrument in a song/band DG drive works very nicely, but if it is there as part of the band, song, soup make up of a track it falls down, it seems like the drive is not quite parallel , it’s slightly off - that’s with B3k/VMT engines anyway.

Its no surprise they have gone to a cross over with the X series which should in principle help solve this.

So far as genres go, I could definitely make it work for non metal, even with drive, but it’s harder work than something else

Edited August 2, 2019 by Cuzzie

[thodrik]

 

8 minutes ago, Osiris said:

That's fair enough. I'm not playing metal these days, and when I have in the past it's been old school Black Sabbath using a Precision, but for that type stuff you want the bass sitting underneath everything else. And for that you need the big fat low mids, but unfortunately those juicy low mids seem to be nowhere to be found whenever I go near anything DarkGlass. But, of course, we're effectively talking about different genres of music. Horses for courses. 

Interesting last couple of comments. 

I have been recording an album over the last 6 months that is very much in the Black Sabbath mould (mostly played in drop C). I started out thinking I would use my trusted old S9 Precision with the B3K through my Mesa Walkabout. I wasn't really happy with it as it just really didn't work with the voicing of the bass in my opinion. Plugged in my Sadowsky Metro Jazz bass (once I set it up for drop C) and it sounded so much better. It might be a Sadowsky v Fender and passive v active thing, but I do think that there is something to the argument that that the Darkglass B*K pedals work better through two pickup basses.

To be honest, I only started using the B3K because my 'go-to' Aguilar Agro broke. Once I started tracking with the B3K, I have pretty much had to stick with the same set up. 

[dannybuoy]

Precision plus Agro is instant Sabbath! Shame it broke!

[thodrik]

16 minutes ago, dannybuoy said:

Precision plus Agro is instant Sabbath! Shame it broke!

Yepp, I managed to get a 30 min rough as sandpaper EP out of it though in 2013 with a previous band:

https://khydra.bandcamp.com/

[Wolverinebass]

I have been waiting for this pedal actually. We are now reaching the £400 mark for a distortion pedal. Which is getting mental. I wouldn't mind trying one though.

I have an AO ultra for my studio and personally, I find it more suited to 5 string tuning. However, it's good for standard, just not as good as playing in drop A. It's not my sound so I'm not using it personally. 

The X7 ultra would be a good thing to compare against the Tech 21 DP-3X pedal. On paper, it should be better with the flexible crossovers and EQ, but I'd like to hear myself. If it's more fuzzy than sharp then it'd be no dice from me.

Personally, I think Darkglass have played a blinder in marketing their products. In saying that for the price you can get a Helix Stomp for the money which I'd really like to have a play with.

You could argue the Darkglass/Dingwall/Djent association is getting stale now. However, I wonder what they'll come out with next. They won't get anyone more high profile than Jon Stockman unless they got say Justin Chancellor which is never going to happen. Where do they go from here?

[Cuzzie]

1 hour ago, Wolverinebass said:

I have been waiting for this pedal actually. We are now reaching the £400 mark for a distortion pedal. Which is getting mental. I wouldn't mind trying one though.

I have an AO ultra for my studio and personally, I find it more suited to 5 string tuning. However, it's good for standard, just not as good as playing in drop A. It's not my sound so I'm not using it personally. 

The X7 ultra would be a good thing to compare against the Tech 21 DP-3X pedal. On paper, it should be better with the flexible crossovers and EQ, but I'd like to hear myself. If it's more fuzzy than sharp then it'd be no dice from me.

Personally, I think Darkglass have played a blinder in marketing their products. In saying that for the price you can get a Helix Stomp for the money which I'd really like to have a play with.

You could argue the Darkglass/Dingwall/Djent association is getting stale now. However, I wonder what they'll come out with next. They won't get anyone more high profile than Jon Stockman unless they got say Justin Chancellor which is never going to happen. Where do they go from here?

Wolverine sig bass and pedal 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Cuzzie

[Cuzzie]

@Wolverinebass what you say is exactly what I want

A head to head DP3X vs X7/ X7 Ultra and unbiased