Should I play bass or cajon on these songs? How do I decide?

[solo4652]

 

I'm involved with a start-up acoustic trio. Good acoustic guitarist who adds a voice-synth and guitar synth to his acoustic guitar. Also sings BV's. Pretty good female singer who does not have much live experience, but is coming along really well. She prefers slower/jazzy numbers to up-tempo toe-tappers. Then there's me. I started off playing (electric) bass to all songs, but at the last rehearsal I played cajon on a few. Straight away, both the guitarist and singer said they preferred me on the cajon. Probably a reflection of my rubbish bass-playing!

I don't want to play cajon all night. I am happy to switch between bass and cajon, depending on the song. But - how do I choose? I am now faced with the job of saying whether I'd play bass or cajon on a growing songlist of 16 songs. I don't know how to make that decision. Can you good people help, please? Three examples:

Breathless - The Corrs. I'd have said bass straight away, but no. Guitarist and singer want me to play cajon.

That man - Caro Emerald.

Hotel California, specifically this cover: I'd want to play bass, but guitarist is suggesting cajon would be "a better fit".

 

[Dan Dare]

Bass will add harmonic under-pinning as well as some weight (assuming you play the parts correctly) and rhythm. A single strummed acoustic guitar is just not sufficient on its own. Has to be bass.

[uk_lefty]

12 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

Bass will add harmonic under-pinning as well as some weight (assuming you play the parts correctly) and rhythm. A single strummed acoustic guitar is just not sufficient on its own. Has to be bass.

Agree with this. You can enforce chords with root notes and play counter melodies and so on under the guitar. It really adds something to have bass. If you really want the beat just ask the singer to tap her toes. 

[dannybuoy]

A lot of bass players will be biased though when forced to choose between only having percussion or bass. Ask a drummer and they’ll choose the cajon!

A decent acoustic guitarist can cope without either if they have the necessary rhythmic chops, and they can put out a surprising amount of low end when amplified. I went to see two friends play a festival gig recently with just female vocals and acoustic guitar, and imagined what it would sound like if I were to play bass alongside them. I’d definitely would have had to get the guitarist to turn down the bass EQ for one - the root notes of each chord were quite powerful.

Ideally of course, you’d add both. But if I was being totally honest and looking at it from the perspective of a typical audience member, I think a cajon would have added more excitement to the live performance than bass alone. There’s also a novelty factor since many non-musos would have never seen one before, which will get them more interested in what’s going on. In a similar way, I pulled out a Ukelele bass for a song once and it grabbed the attention of the audience like you would not believe!

Another option is play bass and play foot drums simultaneously. It’s surprisingly easy to manage at least a kick drum with one foot whilst playing, I have a couple of stomp devices like these:

https://www.logjam.net

Edited August 4, 2019 by dannybuoy

[musicbassman]

Here's another idea - learn to play your bass lines with loads of well placed ghost notes. This can really fill out the rhythm, and once you've mastered the technique it becomes almost second nature.

[Sibob]

I’d probably be playing Cajon on all of them, or hiring a Cajon player (does it need to be a trio?).

Generally speaking I don’t enjoy playing bass without percussion, and I think if the guitarist is good enough (playing and tone-shaping), it is enough to carry a gig  on its own if needed.

Si

[Hellzero]

Just like @uk_lefty said and try playing on a fretless with lots of sustain, it will add that extra dimension needed here. The guitarist should also try playing a 12 strings guitar instead and sing his backing vocals a 5th higher. That way, it would sound really rich and full.

[Happy Jack]

Can Jerri not supply the percussion? A pair of claves, or woodblocks, or one of those strange ribbed things you 'stroke' with a striker (never can remember what they're called or how to pronounce them), or maybe one of those strange round things with chains around them which you twist and shake (never can remember what they're called or how to pronounce them either) ... any of those would add enough to allow you to play bass.

[solo4652]

 Thanks folks. Here are my thoughts, as prompted by some of the responses;

 

We'd like to keep the band footprint as small as possible - so, 3 people, not 4.

Like @Sibob, I don't really enjoy playing bass with no percussion - I feel a bit lost.

I tend to agree with @Dannybouy regarding the novelty factor of having the cajon in the line-up - even more so if I switch between it and bass. Joe public would almost certainly not have seen that, and it would differentiate us from virtually all other local acoustic trios. Easier to get gigs as a result, maybe?

I'm happy to switch between bass and cajon, depending on the song. I suppose my question is - How do I choose which songs to play bass on, and which songs to play cajon? My first thought was cajon on the slower numbers e.g Don'y know why - Norah Jones, True Colors - Cyndi Lauper, Hallelujah - Leonard Cohen, and bass on the faster songs e.g. Breathless - The Corrs, Sunday Girl - Blondie, Mr Rock and Roll - Amy MacDonald. However, the guitarist and singer have different ideas. Then there's the in-between songs e.g. Thank you - Dido, You're still the one I want - Shania Twain, Out of reach - Gabrielle. Consequently, I'm dazed and confused about what I should play on which song.

Edited August 4, 2019 by solo4652

[solo4652]

Heart very much in mouth, here's a short phone-video of us under the "Loose Change" buskers collective banner at a local Makers market. Forget the drummer - he was only there for that one gig, and is not part of our trio. Please remember;

I'm not the coolest dude in the bass world. You'll see me wrestling with my notes at a couple of points. Schoolboy error. Will take clothes pegs next time.

First time the singer had ever sung in public.

First time we had played together in public.

 

[dannybuoy]

You sound pretty good together, in that track alone the bass is providing more rhythm and interest than the drums. All I could hear pretty much was the hi hats, the singer could have just played a tambourine instead - but that’s perhaps more to do with the live sound setup and/or recording!

As to which to choose for each song, I don’t think you can apply a formula. If you’re going to swap instruments through the set, just choose whatever feels right if you have the final say, it sounds like if you put it to a democratic vote they’d choose cajon for every song! Ultimately I’d look for a drummer/cajon player if you prefer to play bass.

[dannybuoy]

2 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

or one of those strange ribbed things you 'stroke' with a striker (never can remember what they're called or how to pronounce them)

A guiro! Pronounced 'gee-ro' I think.

[tauzero]

2 hours ago, solo4652 said:

We'd like to keep the band footprint as small as possible - so, 3 people, not 4.

Like @Sibob, I don't really enjoy playing bass with no percussion - I feel a bit lost.

I tend to agree with @Dannybouy regarding the novelty factor of having the cajon in the line-up - even more so if I switch between it and bass. Joe public would almost certainly not have seen that, and it would differentiate us from virtually all other local acoustic trios. Easier to get gigs as a result, maybe?

I'm happy to switch between bass and cajon, depending on the song. I suppose my question is - How do I choose which songs to play bass on, and which songs to play cajon? My first thought was cajon on the slower numbers e.g Don'y know why - Norah Jones, True Colors - Cyndi Lauper, Hallelujah - Leonard Cohen, and bass on the faster songs e.g. Breathless - The Corrs, Sunday Girl - Blondie, Mr Rock and Roll - Amy MacDonald. However, the guitarist and singer have different ideas. Then there's the in-between songs e.g. Thank you - Dido, You're still the one I want - Shania Twain, Out of reach - Gabrielle. Consequently, I'm dazed and confused about what I should play on which song.

I would reverse that, bass on the slower numbers and cajon on the faster ones. Bass on the Shania Twain too. That's based on my experience of playing in a band with bass and cajon, and another with no percussion.

For Happy Jack - the strange ribbed things that you stroke is either a fish (guiro) or something dressed up in a ribbed condom. Obviously the choice of which depends on exactly what sort of gig is being played.

[uk_lefty]

7 hours ago, solo4652 said:

suppose my question is - How do I choose which songs to play bass on, and which songs to play cajon?

I'd play bass on the ones where there's an 8linteresting bass line, a song that wouldn't be the same without it. 

[miles'tone]

Your future might be double bass shaped. Bass and percussion rolled into one. 

[Davo-London]

I play bass and drums to almost the same level.  I play mostly at church and if it's one or the other the worship minister always picks drums. 

Funnily enough, last night we were three.  Female singer, guitar/singer and me.  In this scenario, I get to play a Cajon kit, which is Cajon as a bass drum (kick pedal attached), hi-hat, ride cymbal and snare (wooden or travelling conga.  This way we stand/sit nice and close and generate an "acoustic" set.

Sometimes the guitar and bass are too close sound-wise to really make it worthwhile having the bass.  The drum or Cajon is a completely different sound and so I can see why the leader might prefer the Cajon.  As it is, I really don't like the Cajon, I think congas are 10 times better to listen to (and play).  However, the Cajon works surprisingly well as a bass drum though!  The only Cajon player I like has the Cajon elevated on a stand and so he plays it standing up.

This band are nuts by the way ... the guitarist is fabtastic.

I have heard it said that bass is more important than drums if it's one or the other.  The sad truth is most folks don't see it that way and to a large extent, I agree.

The fretless is a good shout (or acoustic bass) as they do sound more of a contrast to an acoustic guitar.

Peace

Davo

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davo-London]

If you listen to Jaco and Joni Mitchell then you realise the rest of the band are accompanying them.  This is a nice switch round.  However, this requires you to play like Jaco!

Oh

Davo 

[bazzbass]

get a cajon kick pedal, they exist.

[Woodinblack]

I would play acoustic bass and do bass and percussion on it. Sort of Jon Gomm like but on a bass?

 

[Storky]

I play in a duo and have played DB in an acoustic trio. It’s a fag to take twice the kit, if it were me I’d develop a very percussive bass style possibly on an acoustic bass guitar or DB and get the singer to shake a tambourine; a tambourine goes a long way to adding some rhythm in an acoustic combo. I’ve also used a foot tambourine yo good effect whilst playing bass. If none of this I’d get myself a cajon and find another band for bass outings.

[TrevorR]

You could always play bass and add one of these at your feet... gives you a kick drum sound.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logjam-Logarhythm-MK4-Stomp-Box/dp/B01MU9PRWC/ref=asc_df_B01MU9PRWC/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310872962114&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5495049981354183162&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007104&hvtargid=aud-544645955450:pla-581695227046&psc=1

 

[skankdelvar]

Were I to find myself in the OP's position I would at this point be suggesting that a piano might work better with a cajon than a guitar and that the guitarist could take over lead vocals on a few of the songs while the lady singer moves to trombone. 

[solo4652]

On 05/08/2019 at 08:37, Woodinblack said:

I would play acoustic bass and do bass and percussion on it. Sort of Jon Gomm like but on a bass?

 

Impressive! But way beyond my capabilities, sadly.

[solo4652]

On 05/08/2019 at 08:14, Davo-London said:

If you listen to Jaco and Joni Mitchell then you realise the rest of the band are accompanying them.  This is a nice switch round.  However, this requires you to play like Jaco!

Oh

Davo 

Errr - bit beyond me, sadly!

[Storky]

Just for interest/information: