600 quid for a Hondo anyone?

[kevbass]

would you? [url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/hondo-II-late-70s-bass-guitar-japan-lawsuit-case_W0QQitemZ280295776892QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV?hash=item280295776892&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/hondo-II-late-70s-ba...A1%7C240%3A1318[/url]

Edited December 20, 2008 by kevbass

[skankdelvar]

"Semi-set neck".

Priceless

[budget bassist]

Aren't these plywood?

[Bassassin]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='360197' date='Dec 21 2008, 01:10 PM']Aren't these plywood?[/quote]

Indeed they are. And Korean, not Japanese. And not even from a particularly good Korean factory.

More on this in the Rickenfakers thread - although my comments are rendered a bit obsolete by the fact he's added some pics now.

Jon.

[MB1]

MB1.

[steve-soar]

My cousin bought one of these in the 80's and the fingerboard fell off.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='360410' date='Dec 21 2008, 07:05 PM']My cousin bought one of these in the 80's and the fingerboard fell off. [/quote]
Just like a real 4001, then. They get tail-lift too...

J.

[Lemuel Beam]

Identical to my first bass, bought in '78 for £90.00. An absolute heap of sh*t.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='Lemuel Beam' post='365706' date='Dec 29 2008, 07:32 PM']Identical to my first bass, bought in '78 for £90.00. An absolute heap of sh*t.[/quote]
Just think, if you'd hung on to it you could have punted it for £400, like he just did for that. Despite not getting his original £600, I think that's a record for Korean plywood garbage.

Recession? What recession?

J.

[Lemuel Beam]

[quote name='Bassassin' post='365804' date='Dec 29 2008, 09:59 PM']Just think, if you'd hung on to it you could have punted it for £400, like he just did for that. Despite not getting his original £600, I think that's a record for Korean plywood garbage.

Recession? What recession?

J.[/quote]

If memory serves think I got 50 quid off my next buy, an Aria Pro 2. My conscience is clear..

[WHUFC BASS]

as far as I remember from the 80s all Hondo stuff was pony. I remember their strats appearing in the Freemans catalogue. The Hondos I played in the 80s were always crap - don't know why there is so much interest in them now. Once a crap bass, always a crap bass in my opinion.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368131' date='Jan 1 2009, 11:09 PM']as far as I remember from the 80s all Hondo stuff was pony. I remember their strats appearing in the Freemans catalogue. The Hondos I played in the 80s were always crap - don't know why there is so much interest in them now. Once a crap bass, always a crap bass in my opinion.[/quote]
Specifically the interest in this has been because it's a Rick copy - it's well-documented elsewhere how rare these are, and people will pay insane money for them. Considering a Japanese-made El Maya copy just sold for over £650, then maybe £400 for what's the low end of these isn't unrealistic. There's also a growing interest in 70s copy era stuff in general - it's becoming increasingly rare, and there's an appreciation of the quality of the higher end MIJ stuff, all of which pushes up prices in general.

Most Hondos were utter junk - cheap Korean-made plywood beginner instruments, most of which will have ended up flung in a skip years ago. However there were better-quality Japanese-made versions - it seems that Hondo attempted to up their game in the late 70s/early 80s & started having guitars built by Matsumoku & Tokai. They used better-quality hardware too, & DiMarzio pups were fitted as standard. These were sold alongside the Samick-built Korean cheapies, but because of the brand reputation the "premium" models never really took off.

This makes them very uncommon - and leads to the likes of me finding a rather lovely set-neck, carved top Hondo LP copy languishing at my local car boot, for £25.

J.

[WHUFC BASS]

Don't get me wrong Bassassin, I know how good some of the 80s Jap stuff was, especially makes like Burny, Ibanez and Greco (of which I have owned various guitars and basses) who did really good copies of the classic US guitars (in some cases better than the US). I know that these makes can command a relatively high price and in most cases are well worth it. However, there are some makes (Hondo being the prime example) which were utter gash back then, yet somehow people seem to think that now they are somehow great. If you're a collector, then fine, but if you're a player, then you can get much better quality instruments for the same price.

[The Cooler King]

My first bass was a Hondo, I was all excited when I got it, I took the back off to fix a broken solder joint and the wood looked just like an old fashioned tea chest, worst piece of plywood ever. I'm struggling to remember how it sounded, other than muffled.

Edited January 2, 2009 by The Cooler King

[Kev]

i grabbed a hondo p from the local cc, got it for fek all, took it home and realised it had a banana for a neck, brilliant... but amazingly i got cc to refund me!

[Bassassin]

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' post='368254' date='Jan 2 2009, 09:51 AM']Don't get me wrong Bassassin, I know how good some of the 80s Jap stuff was, especially makes like Burny, Ibanez and Greco (of which I have owned various guitars and basses) who did really good copies of the classic US guitars (in some cases better than the US). I know that these makes can command a relatively high price and in most cases are well worth it. However, there are some makes (Hondo being the prime example) which were utter gash back then, yet somehow people seem to think that now they are somehow great. If you're a collector, then fine, but if you're a player, then you can get much better quality instruments for the same price.[/quote]

I wouldn't pay £650 - or even £400 - for a Rick copy. I'd be pushed to pay that for real one. However it's important to appreciate that quality isn't derived from a label - [i]ever[/i]. My £25 Hondo is a good-quality guitar, perhaps not "replica" standard but certainly the high-end of mid 70s JapCrap copies. I doubt I'll keep it, I'm not really a collector (junk-hoarder, maybe ) and I'd expect it to do quite well on Ebay - particularly to overseas bidders, with the current state of the quid.

The brands you mention aren't makes at all in fact, just brands, and two of them, Greco & Burny, are predominantly Japanese home-market, where there's a much greater demand for "replica" level copies. In fact even Ibanez copies are pretty scarce in the UK - the market here was largely saturated with importer rebrands & the premium-priced Ibby copies were soundly undercut by often identical guitars on UK labels. Ibanez really started to penetrate the market here with their original designs from the late 70s onwards.

I find it interesting to speculate that a lot of the instruments we dismissed as cheap unplayable trash back in the day (and I certainly did) were just poorly set-up & we didn't know any better. I have made a quid or two in the last few years by buying, scrubbing-up & selling on vintage JapCrap, and have found over & over again that all that's needed to make most of them playable is a bit of basic tweaking.

Obviously there are exceptions, but you'll tend to find decent fret jobs & OK-quality hardware on most. It's incredibly common to find a dusty, rusty old guitar with zero fretwear - because the setup out of the box was dire, and it's been in the loft or the back of a cupboard for 30 years.

It's not for me to say why people pay what they do for old instruments - some of which are unarguably poor quality - although I think many of them are buying a myth (and the prevailing Ebay myth is that every old Japanese guitar's an Ibanez - and Hondo were Japanese, so therefore - an Ibanez! ) and presumably many also consider them to be an investment. And considering the prices of these two old Rick copies - they might have a point.

Jon.

[MoonBassAlpha]

This makes them very uncommon - and leads to the likes of me finding a rather lovely set-neck, carved top Hondo LP copy languishing at my local car boot, for £25.


[/quote]
I have a mate who has one of those - It's really not at all bad. Is the carved top sort of hollow sounding when you rap on it?
His has gold hardware and an unfashionably brown figured finish. I thought the p/us were DiMarzio, but were rather microphonic.
Jules

[Bassassin]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' post='368796' date='Jan 2 2009, 08:03 PM']I have a mate who has one of those - It's really not at all bad. Is the carved top sort of hollow sounding when you rap on it?
His has gold hardware and an unfashionably brown figured finish. I thought the p/us were DiMarzio, but were rather microphonic.
Jules[/quote]
No it's not - 'cos it's a solid carved top, rather than the pressed ply archtops found on most 70s LP copies:



Hardware on this is chrome & the pups (in chrome cases) are unbranded, so I think this just pre-dates the use of DiMarzios as standard.

Apologies to the faint-hearted for the g*it*r pics.

J.

Edited January 2, 2009 by Bassassin

[noelk27]

Got to offer a word or two to defend the Hondo II name. My first acoustic was a Hondo II jumbo - which I still own - built in Taiwan, and with a very bass heavy sound, but pretty easy to play. It was a Christmas present in 77. About 6 months later I purchased a Strat copy Hondo II - natural body/maple neck - which was also built in Taiwan. When I was buying it my friend said that he'd set it up for me - and as I'd only ever played an acoustic all the things he talked about sounded a bit like the black arts to me. But he got the action low and balanced the pickup outputs - and it sounded great. Every bit as good as the Tokai Strat copies of the day, which were considerably more expensive.

[tegs07]

On 02/01/2009 at 09:51, WHUFC BASS said:

Don't get me wrong Bassassin, I know how good some of the 80s Jap stuff was, especially makes like Burny, Ibanez and Greco (of which I have owned various guitars and basses) who did really good copies of the classic US guitars (in some cases better than the US). I know that these makes can command a relatively high price and in most cases are well worth it. However, there are some makes (Hondo being the prime example) which were utter gash back then, yet somehow people seem to think that now they are somehow great. If you're a collector, then fine, but if you're a player, then you can get much better quality instruments for the same price.

I have a MIJ Hondo Professional which is one of my favourite basses. I’ve sold on US Fenders, MIM Fenders and have hung onto it. I’ve also played a Hondo 2. It was shite.

Edited December 11, 2021 by tegs07

[Bassassin]

Holy necrothread Batman etc.

 

Anyway, 12 years later it's a handy opportunity to remind ourselves that despite having the same name on the end, this:

 

Is not really the same as this:

 

[MoonBassAlpha]

Good point,  well made!

[PaulWarning]

yep, the original (good) Hondo's were made in Japan, then they moved to Indonesia, I think, not so good 

[Bassassin]

On 26/12/2021 at 11:57, PaulWarning said:

yep, the original (good) Hondo's were made in Japan, then they moved to Indonesia, I think, not so good 

Nah, the original Hondos were cheap, nasty plywood, made in Korea by Samick. Not sure when they first appeared (Hondo's originally a US owned brand so they would've been in the States before getting UK distro) but I'd guess '74ish. There are some pics online of what might be an MIJ prototype (early 70s looking LP copy) but some doubt about whether it's genuine. Korean manufacture quality seems to have lagged behind MIJ by 5-10 years so the Hondos did get better as they went along - I had a set-neck, carved top Samick Hondo LP from about 1978 which was really well-put together & a great player, let down by horrible hardware & electronics.

 

In the late 70s/early 80s there was an attempt to move the brand upmarket by fitting OEM DiMarzios to a lot of models, and introducing a Japanese-made range of higher spec instruments - the through-neck bass I posted is a great example of that. Many of the later, original design Hondos are MIJ, plenty of Matsumoku-made examples & (anecdotally) Tokai made some too. The bass I posted is early 80s and almost certainly made by Chushin Gakki - it has the same bridge as the Chushin-made Washburns from the same era, which looks like this on the back:
 

 

Not sure the brand relaunch went too well - there aren't that many 'good' Hondos around compared to the tat, & the brand's hard-earned reputation as being the nadir of cheapsh!t garbage guitars was probably hard to shake. I think it's disappeared & been relaunched a few times over the years so it's likely there are some Indonesian & Chinese-made Hondos around to muddy the waters still further!

[PaulWarning]

my mistake, I wrongly assumed they made good quality basses then started doing cheaper ones, a bit odd making cheap basses then good ones then cheap ones again (I've just read the wiki page).

I've got an early 80's made in Japan one with DiMarzio pickups, a decent bass despite having a heavy ply body.