Pre-EB Music Man sabre with sunburst over white finish, is that a factory respray?

[SurroundedByManatees]

Hi There,

Ive just purchased a beautiful 1979 Music Man Sabre with a sunburst finish. It appears that the body had been finished in white blonde at first, and got a sunburst overspray later on. Was this common at Music Man, or is it most likely a aftermarket refinish?

This Sabre has an alder body. I always thought they all came with (heavy) ash bodies, so I was surprised to find one that is pretty light. It is definitely more resonant too than I remember from the ash bodied ones.

Cheers

[flower8]

When basses with detective finishes were sent back to the factory for fixing the problem they normally put on the first available body with good correct finish. The detective finish bodies were at this point refinished for being assembled with another neck. The refinish was not necessairnly made with the same color and at MM they did not take the original finish off. So it is likely that you can find a sunburst over white . I have personally saw silver over black and black over silver stingrays. 

Despite the possibility to be honest yours seems not a factory refinish. Too much red in my opinion. Anyway a good way to check is examine the neck pocket. If you can post a pic I can be more precise

[AndyTravis]

I’ve seen this on 70’s fenders...wonder if I have a pic of the jazz I did a new nut for...

[SurroundedByManatees]

Thanks for the replies so far, interesting to hear. The light makes the red more flamboyant than how it actually looks, but it's a vivid burst indeed. If it's a refin, it must have been done ages ago :). 

I just screwed the neck back on, it has spray from the sunburst on the sides of the pocket. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by SurroundedByManatees

[flower8]

Does it look similar to this but with 2 colors ? I mean with the dots white underneath and some black/brown over it?

Edited August 8, 2019 by flower8

[SurroundedByManatees]

Pretty much I think. I've seen a 79 date stamp and there might have been another one. I forgot to take some pictures as I just wanted to verify it's age in the first place. 

I might take the neck off again this weekend for further inspection. 

Edited August 8, 2019 by SurroundedByManatees

[drTStingray]

My Stingray bought new in 1980 had an alder body and the sunburst also wore on the top edge (arm rest) and on the edge by the strap button with a white/light undercoat (possibly white finish underneath). Would this have been Jackson era assembly and finishing? Sunbursts do seem to be on alder as the Old Smoothies also are (based on the 1976 Bass) 

[bartelby]

Stupid question, but is that not just the base colour (of the sunburst) before the red and black are sprayed?

[NancyJohnson]

Just to weigh in here, I'd always assumed that when defective finishes went back to paint, it was always for a solid colour over a sunburst (which is why there's a few older <insert colour here>-over-sunburst guitars about), I've never heard of a sunburst over a solid colour.

I'm going to go with @bartelby here.  Reckon the lighter colour is either the undercoating to either fix the paint to the wood or to hide defects in the wood.  Is the sunburst transparent?  Can you see the woodgrain through it?

 

[SurroundedByManatees]

It's a solid layer, no grain to be found there. I'll make a Pic of the neckpocket later today. 

Other sunburst I've seen were all based on a semi transparant finish. 

 

Edited August 10, 2019 by SurroundedByManatees

[SurroundedByManatees]

[flower8]

It's a respray to me. If It was a factory refinish they would have used the hanging tool the used at that time. That tool leaves characteristic dots on the neck pocket, as shown on the pic I posted

[SurroundedByManatees]

Shouldn't that dots be there from the first finish then? Never noticed those dots before on a Sabre. 

[flower8]

Yes they should. These are some pre eb stingrays and sabres of mine

[SurroundedByManatees]

Thanks. 

Any idea why there aren't any marks from the initial finish? 

[SurroundedByManatees]

7 hours ago, SurroundedByManatees said:

Thanks. 

Any idea why there aren't any marks from the initial finish? 

I see a few small dots of the first white finish, but not as clear and organized as on the examples you've shown. I guess that is unusual. 

[flower8]

Maybe they were sanded a little. Which is the date on the pocket? I cannot read It from the pic.  On 1981-1982 the factory were stingrays were produced changed from CLF to Jackson. Jackson used to make the pocket completely clear from any trace of finish. MM during this switch from one supplier to the other made some basses by themselves.  Maybe it' s one of those....

[SurroundedByManatees]

The stamp is a bit blurry, but im quit confident it says 1979. The neck is stamped Sept 1979. 

Cool you know so much about MM stuff

Edited August 10, 2019 by SurroundedByManatees

[Manton Customs]

Your finish looks like Nitrocellulose lacquer based on the wear and heavy checking. As far as I’m aware, MM wouldn’t have been using Nitro in 79.

I don’t think they’d spray a sunburst over an opaque base at the factory either.

[stingrayPete1977]

It doesn't look like a Musicman finish to me, not that it matters really, cool bass. 

[SurroundedByManatees]

Thanks for all the response people! I'll assume it's a early non-factory refin. I'm fine with that as it has aged beautifully, and actually kept that possibility in mind before the purchase. Will post a full frontal pic soon, as it feels wrong not to post it☺️

[cybertect]

Looking forward to it

 

Welcome to the ‘79 Sabre club anyhow  👍

(mine’s a natural blonde that I’ve had for 26 years)

Edited August 12, 2019 by cybertect

[SurroundedByManatees]

Thanks Cyber!

[bartelby]

I’m not a xxxxburst fan, but that is a seriously good looking bass.

[cybertect]

2 hours ago, bartelby said:

I’m not a xxxxburst fan, but that is a seriously good looking bass.

I concur, that is pretty sweet