Setup issues w/my new Sire M2

[wishface]

So I bought a Sire M2 (the original version).

I'm having some issues, mainly buzz.

Specifically the A string between 12-15th fret. Pretty harsh buzz.

The E had some issues, but that seems to have cleared up, similar area is potentially noisy depending how hard i play.

I favour a lower action and have already had to raise the A a little  more than I'd like. 

I've read that truss rod adjustments don't affect frets at that part of the neck. The neck relief seems fine to my eyes (I checked the measurements fwiw)

It's a lighter neck than I'm used to and the strings feel...different. I've no idea what guage they use, or whether they themselves are the problem, but they feel stiff, heavy and harder on the fingers. Perhaps it's a question of getting used to it. Hard to tell.

I've read that truss rod adjustments don't affect frets at that part of the neck

I have no idea if it's due to the frets themselves, if it is a fret issue then it's beyond my ability to fix but seems oddly specific for an anomalous fret, affecting one string.

I can't afford the professional touch right now, so I'm looking for what I can do at home, if anything. I'd rather wait till I need to replace the strings before doing that anyway. That way I can get it all done. 

NOt really sure what to do here, some advice would be appreciated, thanks

[HowieBass]

Fret buzz that high up is usually a sign of too much neck relief. If you like a really low action you might be better trying for a flatter fretboard/less relief. 

[gary mac]

Try (temporarily) taking the action up a little higher on the A. If the buzzing is still present, use a little straight edge (Credit card or similar) spanning across three frets at a time and check for any rocking. You might find that one or more are a little high. 

Then report back 

[wishface]

23 minutes ago, gary mac said:

Try (temporarily) taking the action up a little higher on the A. If the buzzing is still present, use a little straight edge (Credit card or similar) spanning across three frets at a time and check for any rocking. You might find that one or more are a little high. 

Then report back 

buzzing remains, if slightly, at a height that's higher than I'd like. I didn't raise it to the point it cleared completely. IF it's already too high for comfort then either I need to adapt or something else is going on.

I've checked the frets using by handy dandy Santander bank card and they seem fine. I don't imagine that's where the problem lies (hopefully), but that's as accurate as I can test.

With regard to our friend's first comment, regarding action, before I tighten it, which I'm happy to do, can I confirm his suggestion is on point?

Thanks

[gary mac]

Yes too much relief can cause buzzing towards that end.

It's very easy to end up going around in circles with this sort of problem. My advice would be carry out adjustments in this order:

First off make sure that the strings are sitting comfortably and at the correct heights at the nut.

Next adjust the truss rod to give the correct relief for your particular neck/fret board.

Next adjust the string height at the bridge, ideally so that the strings follow the fret board radius.

 

[wishface]

4 minutes ago, gary mac said:

Yes too much relief can cause buzzing towards that end.

It's very easy to end up going around in circles with this sort of problem. My advice would be carry out adjustments in this order:

First off make sure that the strings are sitting comfortably and at the correct heights at the nut.

Next adjust the truss rod to give the correct relief for your particular neck/fret board.

Next adjust the string height at the bridge, ideally so that the strings follow the fret board radius.

 

How do I measure the height at the nut? If that's the problem there's not going to be much I can do as I can't (and indeed won't) file the nut away. That's a job for the pros IMHO.

You say correct relief for the particular neck. How would I know the correct relief for it?

Thanks for the replies

[gary mac]

To check the nut slot heights, try holding the string down at the 3rd fret, there should be a slight gap then between the underside of the string and the top of the first fret. If there isn't a gap, then the slots are too deep and the strings will buzz when played open. If the gap is excessive then the slots need filing.

The correct relief varies dependant on the fret board radius.

 

I don't want to offend you but maybe it would be worth paying to get it set up properly, or do some research But I'm happy to answer questions and help as best I can.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by gary mac

[wishface]

8 minutes ago, gary mac said:

To check the nut slot heights, try holding the string down at the 3rd fret, there should be a slight gap then between the underside of the string and the top of the first fret. If there isn't a gap, then the slots are too deep and the strings will buzz when played open. If the gap is excessive then the slots need filing.

The correct relief varies dependant on the fret board radius.

 

I don't want to offend you but maybe it would be worth paying to get it set up properly, or do some research

 

Don't worry i'm not going to do anything I'm not comfortable with, but I can't afford to take it to a tech. 

[Acebassmusic]

Where are you based? This thread might help BC'ers Prepared To Help Fix A Bass

[wishface]

I live inbetween weston and bristol

[paul_c2]

If its new, why don't you take it back for the shop to sort out?

Did you play the bass before you bought it?

[wishface]

I wonder if it might be the strings. 

They feel too tight, like they've been over tuned (they haven't unless the new batteries i bought for my tuner are super charged!) and too heavy. If that makes any sense. Perhaps it's just me.

I didn't buuy it from a shop, I ordered it online.

[paul_c2]

If the truss rod and action have been set up properly (and the above posts tell you how to do that), yet its still not right, then it sounds like the neck is wavy (or at least.....the tops of frets). For a new guitar, I'd want it properly corrected or replaced, it sounds like you have a duff one. I'd not be messing about with the nut or frets, but the above is fair game.

I suspected it would be an online purchase.

[wishface]

8 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

If the truss rod and action have been set up properly (and the above posts tell you how to do that), yet its still not right, then it sounds like the neck is wavy (or at least.....the tops of frets). For a new guitar, I'd want it properly corrected or replaced, it sounds like you have a duff one. I'd not be messing about with the nut or frets, but the above is fair game.

I suspected it would be an online purchase.

I don't think we need to jump to conclusions, there's no reason to assume the entire guitar is duff.

What do you mean by wavy?

[paul_c2]

Sorry, if the truss rod and bridge have been adjusted properly, wavy neck is exactly the conclusion that can be drawn in this situation. If not, what else is it?

[wishface]

18 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

Sorry, if the truss rod and bridge have been adjusted properly, wavy neck is exactly the conclusion that can be drawn in this situation. If not, what else is it?

I've no idea, I just know what you mean by 'wavy neck'

[paul_c2]

26 minutes ago, wishface said:

I've no idea, I just know what you mean by 'wavy neck'

 

[Frank Blank]

30 minutes ago, wishface said:

I've no idea, I just know what you mean by 'wavy neck'

 

[Christine]

Have you tried to straighten the neck and checked the frets are actually level across the fretboard?

[wishface]

 

1 hour ago, Christine said:

Have you tried to straighten the neck and checked the frets are actually level across the fretboard?

I've given the frets a cursory examination as best I can and they seem fine. I don't really have the tools to do a proper examination.

I think i'm going to swap the stringsoff my old bass, I know they play ok.

[Christine]

You may find fatter strings might solve it if not you need to find out if the frets are actually flat when the neck is straight. There's no way you can check when the neck is set as by default they should all or nearly all rock. Even Fenders and Gibsons come out of the factory with just frets pressed in and not dressed, that 99% of the time is good enough but occasionally you get a rogue fret that is a little higher or lower

[wishface]

Changing the strings, although my string winding skills are...lacking....has proved rather successful. It's much more playable, even through these are not the newest of strings. I didn't bother to move the saddles back and try intonating afresh, it sounds ok anyway. Most of the strings are pretty much there and i'll just wait until I get a fresh set. I've no idea what strings they used in their factory, but those were pretty horrible to play. I don't notice any uneven frets and the buzz is much better. In fact the action could probably stand to come up a touch. 

The only other issue is that the socket for the lead has a tendency to loosen. I'm going to assume that's not a good thing. It happened on my last bass (which was a much simpler model, this is active) and ended up pulling the wires off the socket so it couldn't be amplified. 

When it comes to stringing the bass, is it best to thread the tip into the machine head, or pass it through and wind over it?

Thanks for the help

[Frank Blank]

16 minutes ago, wishface said:

When it comes to stringing the bass, is it best to thread the tip into the machine head, or pass it through and wind over it?

 

From the Guitar Technical Services site, a luthier I swear by...

http://www.guitartechnicalservices.co.uk/acatalog/Bass_Guitar_Restring.pdf

 

[Christine]

10 hours ago, wishface said:

When it comes to stringing the bass, is it best to thread the tip into the machine head, or pass it through and wind over it?

Cut the string about 75mm mast the machine, bend the tip of the string 90 degrees and push it into the central hole on the machine barrel (post thing), then wind it up the right way

I suspect your problem was light gauge strings so they were looser than a heavier gauge so the magnitude of the string movement is such that it hits the frets, the only way round that is to raise the action on the bass side more than the treble. If that's the case, check the nut for string fit just in case they're a bit tight. The truss rod mat need some adjustment too, worth a check

[wishface]

Just now, Christine said:

Cut the string about 75mm mast the machine, bend the tip of the string 90 degrees and push it into the central hole on the machine barrel (post thing), then wind it up the right way

I suspect your problem was light gauge strings so they were looser than a heavier gauge so the magnitude of the string movement is such that it hits the frets, the only way round that is to raise the action on the bass side more than the treble. If that's the case, check the nut for string fit just in case they're a bit tight. The truss rod mat need some adjustment too, worth a check

I would have said the opposite. They felt like strings that were tuned too high; tighter, if that makes sense. As If i'd used the E string for the A string or something.

I generally use medium guage 40-100.