Black dye/stain finish

[Fishman]

Any ideas how to get a rich black finish with dye or stain (Water or spirit based) on swamp ash – my tests so far have only produced a sort of brownish black, not the dense black I'm after – see attached Alpher screenshot

Any advice greatly appreciated!

[Cat Burrito]

From my (fairly) limited experiences of staining basses, the two considerations are 1) leave it on for longer before wiping it off and 2) more than one coat both contribute to getting a better finish.

[Dov65]

I'm going to be staining a swamp ash body aswell, done a good bit of reading up about it & the more coats the darker it gets seemingly. I've never done it before either hopefully it works out ok

[Fishman]

I might try this:

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Fishman

[Rexel Matador]

Crimson Guitars Stunning Stains. It's gets pretty damn black after a few coats. I use a sponge if I want to get a deep saturated look, tissue if I'm going more subtle.

Even when I diluted to try and get a grey colour, it still retained its not-brown-ness, as it were.

If you're specifically asking about technique as opposed to products, I'm no expert, but in my experience, it's just a case of adding plenty of coats.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Rexel Matador

[Christine]

I really can't remember the recipe but there is a method for the ultimate black but it only works with an oil finish. It is described in detail in Tage Frid's book 3 on Wood Finishing. I sold mine years ago like an idiot but it's a very good book to have and worth getting. I did try the method once and the finished colour was a s black as midnight  in a dark cave. It went on like a dark green but as soon as the oil touched it it went jet black, that was 30 years ago and is still jet black today

[BigRedX]

That exaggerated grain effect shown in the OP is done by staining the wood and then sanding back lightly to remove the stain in the soft grain areas and retain it in the harder ones. Then the wood is stained again so that the doubled stained areas end up darker.

[Dov65]

5 hours ago, Christine said:

5 hours ago, Christine said:

I really can't remember the recipe but there is a method for the ultimate black but it only works with an oil finish. It is described in detail in Tage Frid's book 3 on Wood Finishing. 

 

Some books by him are available online free..pdf files so it says

[Dov65]

Seems swamp ash a bit notorious for this brown colour comming thru, wood bleach was suggested..dunno 

[Christine]

1 hour ago, Dov65 said:

Some books by him are available online free..pdf files so it says

Indeed and here it is:

[Bassalarky]

A bit left-field but I had great success staining a maple top with black ink (the stuff for fountain pens). I think I used acrylic clear coat over it - was a while ago.

[Dov65]

Thats 3 coats light purple & brown still comming thru..f-#*$!g t^£@g..never mind..

[Dov65]

On 17/08/2019 at 23:40, Bassalarky said:

A bit left-field but I had great success staining a maple top with black ink (the stuff for fountain pens). I think I used acrylic clear coat over it - was a while ago.

Sure somebody used this ink on a westone & looked mighty fine

[Fishman]

4 hours ago, Dov65 said:

Thats 3 coats light purple & brown still comming thru..f-#*$!g t^£@g..never mind..

 

I see you threw your gloves down in disgust! 😁

Edited August 19, 2019 by Fishman

[Fishman]

On 14/08/2019 at 22:50, Rexel Matador said:

Crimson Guitars Stunning Stains. It's gets pretty damn black after a few coats. I use a sponge if I want to get a deep saturated look, tissue if I'm going more subtle.

Even when I diluted to try and get a grey colour, it still retained its not-brown-ness, as it were.

If you're specifically asking about technique as opposed to products, I'm no expert, but in my experience, it's just a case of adding plenty of coats.

@Rexel Matador – is this swamp ash?

[Fishman]

On 15/08/2019 at 16:36, Christine said:

Indeed and here it is:

 

@Christine – thanks for this – where might I buy the chems without ending up on an MI5 list?

 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Fishman

[Rexel Matador]

11 minutes ago, Fishman said:

@Rexel Matador – is this swamp ash?

I think it's Basswood, if memory serves - I'd heard it was easy to work with and it was my first build. People say it doesn't make good instruments but this thing sings.

[NancyJohnson]

I stained the fingerboard on my Lull black using Fiebings Leather Dye.

Not sure whether this would suit your purpose, but the board went from a mid-brown/tan to jet black in one application and has stayed black.

Caveats should anyone want to try this; mask areas you don't want stained, do not over-apply, wipe off the excess after a minute or two and wear gloves!

[Dov65]

@Fishman what colour was bass body before you sanding down ? Reason i'm asking is the Schecter i was at had a aged satin finish...sure its a finish where waxed shellac thats had a tint added is used. It aint very durable as anchor point for thumb was wearing through and couldn't get rid of marks. I've been trying to use crimsons stains but no joy smells like nail varnish and not the meths kinda smell i was expecting anyway might get a gas axe and do some toasting. As  for ingredients to the ebony dye think you'd have to go back to 1942 with ration book and hava word with Mr Boots

[Christine]

17 hours ago, Fishman said:

 

@Christine – thanks for this – where might I buy the chems without ending up on an MI5 list?

 

Ebay probably but I bought them from the chemist in the dark past before the internet hit us

[ebassuk]

Stained a bass with Liberon ebony wood dye and rubbed it back the next day  not recommended I have also tried this same stain on an ebony EUB fingerboard  it just came off when I played it leaving my hands black !

[Dov65]

American ash no problem with stain, thats 1 coat. @Christine could it be shellac thats problem on swamp ash ? I've rubbed the body down 3 times and a 4th comming up...its been wiped down with meths and went into the wood no prob

[Dov65]

Forgot picture..doh

[Christine]

The trouble with staining is that it's a really difficult thing to do well. I've never been able to do it with commercial stains, they always but always turn out blotchy and uneven, hence I've tended to use chemical staining on the few times I've had to do any. It's a lot easier to put a tinted finish on top, you don't get that unevenness across spring and summer growth areas

I'm not sure what's going on there , if there has been some wax on the body at some time it may have been drawn into the pores of the wood, that would prevent even staining. I've never used waxed shellac, I've always made my own as needed from flakes or buttons. Rubbing down will need to be done to extremes to get rid of anything that has soaked in to the wood. Meths will soak in but not into the finer pores that have been blocked with wax if that's what happened. Meths won't usually dissolve wax but white spirits will but using white spirits on that would only drive the wax further in but it will also dilute the concentration. Maybe flooding the body with white spirits and wiping it off a couple of times might help

[Christine]

Perhaps @Andyjr1515 as some thoughts?