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Black dye/stain finish


Fishman
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https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rub-Buff-Original-Antiquing-Decorating/dp/B00N1YHWY4/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=rub+n+buff+black&qid=1567104958&s=gateway&sprefix=rub+n+buff&sr=8-1

I have used Rub n Buff wax (gold/copper metallic)  to either pop grain, or give a slight sheen to proceedings. It was pushed in and then taken off mostly with teak oil.

You May be able to use it and then Buff it it to stay black.

I had no problems dealing it with gun oil in the usual way after I got the look I wanted, the gun oil deepened the colour some

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1 hour ago, Christine said:

Perhaps @Andyjr1515 as some thoughts?

There are two issues that sometimes make it difficult to pin down exactly what is going to produce the required result.

First is that any residue at all of previous coatings will generally prevent the stain from soaking in properly.  The way I generally check is that I sand it thoroughly, dust off the sandings and then wipe over with a moist (not dripping wet) cloth.  Raw wood will immediately darken.  If there are light patches and not just because the grain direction changes, it is usually that residue still there.

The second is that black is a very difficult stain!  And that is because you can't have shades of black.  Black that isn't black just isn't black.  And stains absorb more on end grain and often not much at all with the grain.  So if it was green, you end up with green and lighter green.  But 'lighter black'?

So I'm not sure absorbing stains are the best thing - I think it needs to be more a coating product than an absorbing product.

As stated above, Fiebings Leather Dye is worth a try - I think that is a bit of a cross between both.

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7 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

As stated above, Fiebings Leather Dye is worth a try - I think that is a bit of a cross between both.

I think because it's marketed as leather dye, it's largely overlooked, but when I started investigating the product was mentioned on several forums.

It really does work; do your pre-prep...use metholated spirit as a final degreaser and apply.

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Very timely thread for me, as I'm also looking to refinish a guitar in black stain at the moment.  Having stripped it, and seen whats underneath, I think I can understand some of the terrible reviews of eg the Wudtone kits.  It is nigh on impossible to remove all of the finish.  Mine (Vintage brand mid 2000s thing) had seven coats of polyester, which came off as a single sheet about 1mm thick, very easily with a heat gun.  But the base coat is some sort of 2 pack epoxy I would guess from the smell.  It doesn't come off easily (at all) with a heat gun, and is as hard as glass.  Luckily I have decent orbital sander, but it has penetrated deep into the wood and took a lot of work to remove, and needed a deep sand.  I think many failures will have been because of residue from this sort of layer.

So maybe paint finishes are safest when refinishing a guitar thats been painted with this sort of finish.

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Crikey, I've opened a can of worms with this thread (witty response re not being able to stain wood with worms I expect will be forthcoming!)

i've applied 6 coats of Liberon ebony spirit-based stain (recommended by a local framer) to my test piece of ash and it's still a warm black – i applied some crimson guitar finishing oil and it removed some of the stain 

looks like the chemical route might be the way to go

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Fiebings dye next on the list, what i've read is its alcohol based...i'll sand it back down again & use white spirit to wash it down as Christine said, i dunno about that Crimson stain it says spirit but don't smell like it could be acrylic..anyway good luck Mr Fish hope you get some worms

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Quote

So maybe paint finishes are safest when refinishing a guitar thats been painted with this sort of finish.

Could be bud, as some more experienced folk say it could be sealed prior to paint or stain..i'm going for the leather dye alcohol based stuff something with a bit o bite...

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23 hours ago, Jimothey said:

I had good results with powder pigment stain that I got off EBay much better than premixed stain

CDB5D962-0470-4DB2-B810-3E98C4F25D4E.jpeg.b738e79e74779e637946c4326145affe.jpeg

That was 2 coats of stain then it went blacker when I put 3 coats danish oil on it............😀

 

ash or swamp ash?

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've now used with both the Wudtone system and also tried black Chestnut brand black stain with topcoats of sealer oil.  I'll avoid the Wudtone system in future, at least on alder.  I found it very hard to use and ended up stripping it all off and starting again as the finish was so patchy.  It might work better on something other than alder.  Black Chestnut stain gave a great deep black colour, though difficult to get an even finish on something that has already been painted, I think because of variability in how previous sealer coats were applied.   But the Chestnut brand stain worked the best, penetrating very well.  Give it at least 24 hrs for the stain to dry though - the bottle says 5 minutes, but it's wrong.  Then 10 coats of Tung Oil, for a deep glossy black result.

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I just tried out some Fiebings leather dye on my test scrap and it is very black, which is what I was after – I also tried indian ink which was also very black, but raised the grain a bit more

I have some swamp ash samples coming from rothko for ultimate proof of concept before attacking the body

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 14/08/2019 at 10:33, Fishman said:

Any ideas how to get a rich black finish with dye or stain (Water or spirit based) on swamp ash – my tests so far have only produced a sort of brownish black, not the dense black I'm after – see attached Alpher screenshot

Any advice greatly appreciated!

Screenshot 2019-08-14 at 10.30.38.png

Hey man!

 

this bass was actually burnt to achieve that colour / texture of grain

 

👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

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Hey!!

yeah we used a blow torch to get it as dark as possible then gave it a wash coat of black stain to even things out!

Burning plus adding stain really seems to get it very black!! The key to that texture really is the wood though. That rippled ash has beautiful grain etc anyway even before burning. 

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