midi send and return question..

[skidder652003]

So I have this Roland A90 stage piano which I was considering selling as I really wanted a full-size midi controller and wasn't sure how to use the Roland as its a bit old school.

However its an awesome fully weighted beast of a keyboard that I got for an amazing price so I've persevered and got an eridol midi to usb interface.

It works great and I'm chuffed but I have a question, I only need to go midi out to the eridol interface (which then goes into my Mac via  one of its USB ports) for it to work fine, so what's the point of the midi out from the eridol and the midi in on the keyboard? I haven't tried it as I'm waiting on another midi cable but I was wondering why there's an in and out on old midi gear?

cheers!

[blisters on my fingers]

I think it lets you use another keyboard to trigger the sounds from the Roland and vice versa

[skidder652003]

Just now, blisters on my fingers said:

I think it lets you use another keyboard to trigger the sounds from the Roland and vice versa

possibly yes, I was wondering if it might also give me touch sensitivity on the piano (ie soft to loud) which it doesn't seem to at the moment when I use the midi facility, I shall see when the other midi cable arrives!

[DanOwens]

It looks like the A90s are known for their inconsistent output velocities (MIDI word for volume...kinda). The MIDI IN is so you can write music on your computer and have it play out through your piano (amongst other things). See this document HERE for a full guide of their MIDI implementation possibilities

Edited August 21, 2019 by DanOwens

[skidder652003]

8 hours ago, DanOwens said:

It looks like the A90s are known for their inconsistent output velocities (MIDI word for volume...kinda). The MIDI IN is so you can write music on your computer and have it play out through your piano (amongst other things). See this document HERE for a full guide of their MIDI implementation possibilities

Thanks, have you seen how complicated that all looks at first glance?! Think I'll stick to midi out into usb and garageband!

[prowla]

MIDI is networking for synths; you can use one keyboard as "controller" to other modules (which may or may not have keyboards).

The "address" of a unit is its MIDI channel (0-15); you have to be able to set your keyboard to send on the other unit's channel (eg. 2); this can be a bit of a faff on some, with obscure button presses.

Also, some older ones may only support subsets of MIDI, so it's important to check compatibility.

As far as a keyboard's MIDI In goes, it can be use to control the keyboard (eg. with a switch board or expression pedal rather than a keyboard proper).

Here's a good reference.

https://noterepeat.com/articles/how-to/213-midi-basics-common-terms-explained

[tauzero]

It may help if you consider MIDI keyboards as a combination of a MIDI controller keyboard and a MIDI sound module in one case. The MIDI out you have going off to the computer is simply a stream of instructions saying what note to play and how loud. It's also heading off to the sound module bit of your keyboard to tell it to play those notes. You can also send a stream of MIDI messages from something else - a sequencer, another keyboard, a guitar/bass-to-MIDI converter - to the MIDI in, and the sound module will play those notes.

[prowla]

7 hours ago, tauzero said:

It may help if you consider MIDI keyboards as a combination of a MIDI controller keyboard and a MIDI sound module in one case. The MIDI out you have going off to the computer is simply a stream of instructions saying what note to play and how loud. It's also heading off to the sound module bit of your keyboard to tell it to play those notes. You can also send a stream of MIDI messages from something else - a sequencer, another keyboard, a guitar/bass-to-MIDI converter - to the MIDI in, and the sound module will play those notes.

Yep - a bit like an integrated hi-fi vs. separates.

[BassTractor]

On 21/08/2019 at 18:12, skidder652003 said:

Thanks, have you seen how complicated that all looks at first glance?! Think I'll stick to midi out into usb and garageband!

Yes indeed.
Not only does it look complicated, but it also is complicated.
BTW, I'm just writing in support of your notion.

In principle MIDI's simple enough: send some commands to another unit, and that unit will obey.
But then stuff happens.
MIDI as it originally was conceived was way too simplistic, resulting in patchwork, brand specific functionality (very much against the very thought of MIDI, and meaning you have to patch control codes), updates and new generations. Then, manufacturers don't always give you a full MIDI implementation either, or it's simply not working well (A90 velocity for example).
And this is all long before we start talking about the official brand specific functionality called SysEx.

Yes, it's complicated, and a few looks at the forums at Gearslutz shows how even MIDI users with decades of experience sometimes tear out their hairs.
When it simply works, it's luvverly. When it doesn't, it becomes a nightmare.

But your approach of just sending note messages to the computer through the USB interface seems like a good way forward to start with. You'll pick up knowledge and insight as you go and read and experiment.

Having both MIDI cables connected to the A90 can be done without the risk of a loop. It's just there so your computer can send control codes, or sequences of them, to the A90. For example: you could record what you're playing on the A90 (not the sound, but the MIDI codes), show this in computer software, edit that result, and send the edited recording back to the A90 so it will generate sound again as if you originally played perfectly.

BTW, I'd love to help you, but I can't. After actually having taught the stuff in music college 😮, I've given up on MIDI after a stroke. My brain refuses to contain the knowledge. So in a weird way, I understand your situation very well.

Good luck!
Bert
 

[Gray]

r.e. Velocity inconsistencies. I seem to remember these Roland controllers having various velocity curve settings which may be worth experimenting with, or it could be tired key contacts. 

[prowla]

Some (earlier) kit didn't do the full 128 range for velocities.

[skidder652003]

Thank you all for your input! I've discovered that the velocity touch works very well with all the virtual pianos and synths, it was just the Hammond organ that didn't respond to any touch sensitivity, probably as per an original Hammond! So far it all works rather well and I've saved myself the hassle of selling it and buying the appropriate midi keyboard/controller. The keys on this A90 are a joy to play and as I'm planning on leaving it where it is rather than gigging it the weight is not a problem. The lesson I've learned is to get yourself an older quality keyboard and utilize its midi capabilities with a modern(ish) midi to usb cable and it works just fine