Would You Stay Or Would You Go?

[tinyd]

I agree with #1 all the way. I find these things tend to work themselves out anyway - people move on, bands break up etc. Better that your friend has a reputation locally of being both a decent drummer and a decent person.

[Frank Blank]

6 hours ago, JohnR said:

#1 for me. Integrity and reputation are important.

Very true, unfortunately I have neither 😐

[nikon F]

21 hours ago, jezzaboy said:

I`d go for 5. You aren`t shafting the current drummer but your letting them know that should changes happen you would be interested.

Or do what Ian Paice did when asked to join Deep Purple. He didn`t give a toss about the current drummer, he "grabbed the opportunity with both hands." It seems to have worked out okay for him.

There wasn't a current drummist when paice joined purple .he's the only original member left now

[Dan Dare]

9 hours ago, mikel said:

I would turn down the offer. I would say I was made up to be asked, and loved playing with you guys, but you already have a drummer who is a band member. I would add that If the drummer ever chose to leave I would be more than happy to step in.  That way you leave all the doors open without making any enemies and you keep your reputation as a good guy and someone who can be trusted.

This. Combines 1 and 5 and doesn't offend anyone.

[Monkey Steve]

Just had an update from the drummer in question

This follows having a practice with the band in question at which they put two new songs into the set because they finally have a drummer who is able to actually play them.  He's still not certain that they will ask him to join but thinks it's sounding more likely (although I reminded him of an old band of ours where we did a couple of gigs without the singer and we put a load of extra stuff into the set that the singer either struggled to sing properly or wouldn't approve of, without any suggestion that he would get rid of him)

So I asked if he's made a decision about what he will do if they ask him to join...and he disagrees with all of us!

He's gone for Option #3 - he will join if they ask, and will put up with the singer.  There are a couple of caveats

His first is that he wants the band to make clear to the other drummer that they are getting rid of him, and that they have asked my mate to replace him, he didn't go asking to join the band.  I tend to think that this isn't a distinction to which the other drummer will pay too much attention, but he thinks it'll maintain some of his reputation as a nice bloke.

The second is that in the discussions for new songs he's been suggesting (and is thinking hard about) songs that he thinks they will struggle with, not so that they look bad when playing live, more that the rest of the band will start taking notice of songs that they want to do but can't because the singer makes a mess of them.

Seems a bit subtle to me, but you never know.

[Dan Dare]

If he's going for 3, he might as well go the whole hog and choose 4.

[Woodinblack]

5 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

His first is that he wants the band to make clear to the other drummer that they are getting rid of him, and that they have asked my mate to replace him, he didn't go asking to join the band.  I tend to think that this isn't a distinction to which the other drummer will pay too much attention, but he thinks it'll maintain some of his reputation as a nice bloke.

It really won't, it won't make a blind bit of difference. If your girlfriend goes off with your best mate, does it help if it was your girlfriends idea rather than your best mates idea? 

 

5 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

The second is that in the discussions for new songs he's been suggesting (and is thinking hard about) songs that he thinks they will struggle with, not so that they look bad when playing live, more that the rest of the band will start taking notice of songs that they want to do but can't because the singer makes a mess of them.

So he is going to join a band to make them look better and then deliberately pick songs that the singer will mess up and they will sound a crap band playing live so that the rest of the group decide to get a new singer?

I hope it sounds better in his head than it does when said out loud!

[Monkey Steve]

31 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

So he is going to join a band to make them look better and then deliberately pick songs that the singer will mess up and they will sound a crap band playing live so that the rest of the group decide to get a new singer?

I hope it sounds better in his head than it does when said out loud!

No - that’s not the plan. In the same way that the band had a couple of songs that they really wanted to play but couldn’t until they found a drummer who could cope with them, his plan is to get them very excited about a couple of songs that they like, but can’t actually play live because the  singer can’t manage them.

Im not disputing that it’s a rubbish plan...I said he’s a drummer, right?

[paul_c2]

Its like a car crash in slow motion.

Please keep us updated.

[miles'tone]

If everyone was in a city and careerist, #5. 

In this location and with the tight-knit pool of musicians, #1 is the only response. 

Coming originally from nowheresville, North Wales, I've seen this kind of thing get ugly and upsetting too many times! 

[tauzero]

7 hours ago, Monkey Steve said:

His first is that he wants the band to make clear to the other drummer that they are getting rid of him, and that they have asked my mate to replace him, he didn't go asking to join the band.  I tend to think that this isn't a distinction to which the other drummer will pay too much attention, but he thinks it'll maintain some of his reputation as a nice bloke.

A few years ago, I got kicked out of a band which had started to pick up some momentum because another bassist who was a friend of the lead guitarist and drummer saw them getting more successful and said he wanted to be the bassist. I thought that he was a sh!t and the lead guitarist and drummer were sh!ts too. Eventually I forgave everyone, but I can understand the distinction and sympathise with your drummer mate's POV.

[Monkey Steve]

On the assumption that the band do ask him to join and dump the current drummer,  I am more or less on their side. Nothing worse than having a bad drummer in your  band

Obviously I have no idea whether the drummer in question knows that he’s not very good. I’ve had to sack a couple of band members who’ve basically said “yeah, fair enough, you can do better”. Though they were very much the exceptions.

[Frank Blank]

8 hours ago, tauzero said:

A few years ago, I got kicked out of a band which had started to pick up some momentum because another bassist who was a friend of the lead guitarist and drummer saw them getting more successful and said he wanted to be the bassist. I thought that he was a sh!t and the lead guitarist and drummer were sh!ts too. Eventually I forgave everyone, but I can understand the distinction and sympathise with your drummer mate's POV.

I’ve now put myself in your shoes and reverted to option #1.

[Stub Mandrel]

I got kicked out of a band for being too widdly. Got replaced by the rhythm guitarist, because they just wanted root notes.

What hurt was that they didn't discuss it with me first; maybe it was something else? Probably that I thought I was in a psychedelic rock band and they thought they were indy-punk?

I don't know, but it was better than being told I was crap... but my advice is (a) don't try and be too clever and (b) sometimes friendships matter more than the music.

Good news is my next band hired me because I was the first person they found who could play the basslines the guitarist had written.

[Monkey Steve]

On 25/08/2019 at 00:45, Stub Mandrel said:

I got kicked out of a band for being too widdly. Got replaced by the rhythm guitarist, because they just wanted root notes.

What hurt was that they didn't discuss it with me first; maybe it was something else? Probably that I thought I was in a psychedelic rock band and they thought they were indy-punk?

I don't know, but it was better than being told I was crap... but my advice is (a) don't try and be too clever and (b) sometimes friendships matter more than the music.

Good news is my next band hired me because I was the first person they found who could play the basslines the guitarist had written.

In my experience bands are very bad at addressing these sort of issues good and early and in a way that everybody understands clearly...so they b#tch about them behind their back and it festers to the point where the band just want rid of the offending musician who they now can't stand...cue sacking

And I'm as guilty as anybody else - I've certainly sacked a couple of people who didn't see it coming and they reacted like their wife had just told them to move out, when a more sensible discussion at an earlier stage might have lessened the blow, or given them a chance to change their ways

Mind you, I've also had more than one band mate who, in the face of the rest of the band all saying that they wanted to do something slightly different to what they want, have dug their heels in and refused to go along with them.  And amazingly they were also quite surprised when the band decided to do without them

[Stub Mandrel]

Things are difficult in our 'random' band at the moment. It's clear three of us are, shall we say, at a different place - not least in our capacity to learn new material or even jam a song we haven't played before. But the other two would probably like to get there but I can't see it happening.

I'd like the five of us to do another one of the weekend warrior events, but to become a real, gigging, band we need a more committed front man.

[burno70]

#1 for me. No point dissing a singer of a band you aren't going to join. But definitely let them know you've enjoyed your time with them and see what happens in the future.

[Monkey Steve]

Latest update from the drummer (for those that have been wanting to know what happened)

Seems that it will all resolve itself quite amicably.  The incumbent drummer is absent due to some personal/family issues and has let the band know that he's probably not going to return, albeit that he hasn't quite quit just yet.

So my mate will carry on depping for now, and has been asked whether he will join permanently if the original drummer does formally quit.  He gets the spot in the band, and nobody is the bad guy

[DaveFry]

Que sera , sera .

Here is Ron Carter talking about replacing Paul Chambers in Miles Davis' band . :

 

[Woodinblack]

On 27/08/2019 at 09:55, Monkey Steve said:

In my experience bands are very bad at addressing these sort of issues good and early and in a way that everybody understands clearly...so they b#tch about them behind their back and it festers to the point where the band just want rid of the offending musician who they now can't stand...cue sacking

Yes, my other (ie, not my regular gigging) band just collapsed as the keys player had made it hard for us to do anything and I think it was just a question of who went first. Seemed like after a recent gig things would calm down and we could get on with stuff, but no, the old problems came up and now everyone (including the keys) have announced they are leaving.

A shame but not a surprise.

However, I don't think that there was a way of addressing those issues early, as I think it was very embedded in personalities.

[Ant1972]

On 21/08/2019 at 16:50, Lozz196 said:

1 & 2 for me, which leads into 5.

Yep.

[Monkey Steve]

51 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Yes, my other (ie, not my regular gigging) band just collapsed as the keys player had made it hard for us to do anything and I think it was just a question of who went first. Seemed like after a recent gig things would calm down and we could get on with stuff, but no, the old problems came up and now everyone (including the keys) have announced they are leaving.

A shame but not a surprise.

However, I don't think that there was a way of addressing those issues early, as I think it was very embedded in personalities.

yeah, it depends.  If it's a playing style issue then you can address it before it becomes a reason to sack somebody, or can have a grown up discussion so that everybody knows where they stand and the sacking won't be a shock if they don't pull their socks up. 

If it's a personality issue then you're going to have a hard time fixing it.

 

[Lfalex v1.1]

On 21/08/2019 at 16:50, Lozz196 said:

1 & 2 for me, which leads into 5.

Exactly this.

1&2 outweigh the other options. 5 is another option, as side-projects might also be.