Parallel Lines a Serial Killer?

[Al Krow]

I've currently got all the pedals on my board set up in series. Simples! 

How about you guys? Any of you using any of your pedals in parallel loops on your boards (or possibly even in your amp's fx loop)? 

If so, be really interested in your thinking behind this and what improvement to the sound it's delivering; what pedals you have in parallel and what you've left in series and what your board set-ups look like (pics very welcome!)?

Are you just using the effects loops on existing pedals or have a separate dedicated pedal (e.g. a Boss LS2)? 

Cheers, AK

[Al Krow]

Classic series pedal board order

Shared this another forum, but reposting in case it's of interest to folk here. There won't be a single 'right' answer, but the general order I try to follow is :

Like to have as much clean to bite on so place at / near the start:

• BASS --> Tuner --> HPF --> Compressor --> Octave --> 

Mid board:

• Synths --> Distortion (drive / fuzz) --> 

Better with something complex to bite on:

• Filter (for funk) --> 

Want to act on the whole of your 'effected' signal:

• Modulation (chorus / flange / phaser) --> Delay / Reverb --> Preamp(s) --> AMP

 

Parallel routing does potentially offer a whole bunch of additional flexibility.

[krispn]

@Cuzzie had a quality blender/loop pedals for a while. He should have some good info ...the Tyler I believe it was called... with hpf and lpf available on the two channels - I think it was hpf on one and lpf on the other?

In the past I’ve used the loops on my basswitch to good effect one series, one parallel for drive and comp but I don’t use much else fx wise. 

A gig rig switcher might be a good option but that’s more for combining effects into ‘preset’ rather than tap dancing but if it’s mainly for home and not to be executed on the gig it’s maybe not worth the expense? 

[Al Krow]

The piece of kit that @stewblack has recently got, looks really neat, compact, won't break the bank and has ease of live use with stomp buttons.

[krispn]

What are you asking for then 😛😀

[itu]

For me that parallel or series was not the answer. So I split the freq range to lower (no effects, except comp) and higher band (effects in series). This way it is very easy to use the effects without mudding or screwing the low end.

Brave new world.

[krispn]

That’s a pretty good solution!

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, krispn said:

What are you asking for then 😛😀

I'm particularly interested in what parallel set ups folk are using with their pedals (if they have gone down the parallel route) and what improvements in sound they are getting by going parallel over keeping things in series. 

[dannybuoy]

Depends what you're trying to achieve. E.g. a typical synth style chain with octave, fuzz, filter, modulation in series would not really work if you put all those effects in parallel. It's a bit like eating a cake vs eating a raw egg, a spoon of flour and a spoon of sugar, whilst sat in an oven.

It is useful though for blending 3 different voices together though - say a traditional bass sound, an octave up fake guitar guitar sound, and a synth or organ, with the ability to switch each channel on or off. Or even just 3 different bass distortions to create a fuller sound. Only problem I can see there though is maintaining sensible output level - if you used that Tri Parallel Mixer with say a Sansamp and a B7K in their own loops - would you get double the volume if blending both together?

Edited August 25, 2019 by dannybuoy

[krispn]

You can already add effect loops with the stomp as well as run that ‘loop’ in a parallel path. In addition you could set a cross over point in that parallel path - kinda like that video I posted in another thread about setting up a patch. You could effectively use the stomp as a loop unit and then add a stand alone pedal or a few pedals if you wanted then in series. Once in the loop you can add additional fx from the stomp to that path either before or after and in series or parallel such as drive filter, eq etc. So you already have the tools to experiment. The Stomp is a very versatile and capable unit limited only by imagination (and 6 fx blocks)!

Edited August 25, 2019 by krispn
Clarity

[krispn]

And assign that loop to a foot switch 

[Al Krow]

Mucking about on Stomp defo sounds like a good idea! Although given it's all being simulated not sure how good a reflection of what be would happenning with actual dedicated pedals?

So still keen to hear about folk's actual parallel set ups / use of loops on their own boards, (particularly as I won't be ditching all my pedals for the Stomp, unless it's able to match what they can do). 

[Deedee]

Terribly disappointed that this thread isn't about Blondie ☹️

[krispn]

There is an actual fx loop on the right hand side of the pedal (which can be set up as per the image and a dig about the global settings!). One of the features of the stomp is the integration and flexibility of the unit so it can do the sort of thing you're after as well as the series and parallel thing with effects in those loops etc. You already have the perfect bit of kit to practice on. If you'd prefer to have a box with knobs and not have to deep dive (click a few buttons) then that's a different thing. I shall leave you all to it

 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by krispn

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Deedee said:

Terribly disappointed that this thread isn't about Blondie ☹️

Fair.

Fair enough to be blonde, in fact. 

Not sure she was ever a serial killer though? 

[Al Krow]

22 hours ago, dannybuoy said:

Depends what you're trying to achieve. E.g. a typical synth style chain with octave, fuzz, filter, modulation in series would not really work if you put all those effects in parallel. It's a bit like eating a cake vs eating a raw egg, a spoon of flour and a spoon of sugar, whilst sat in an oven.

It is useful though for blending 3 different voices together though - say a traditional bass sound, an octave up fake guitar guitar sound, and a synth or organ, with the ability to switch each channel on or off. Or even just 3 different bass distortions to create a fuller sound. Only problem I can see there though is maintaining sensible output level - if you used that Tri Parallel Mixer with say a Sansamp and a B7K in their own loops - would you get double the volume if blending both together?

Totally agree with the first point - if you're creating your synth sound with the traditional octave --> (poss gated) fuzz --> filter then you need these in series. If you have an actual synth pedal or looking for your octave to track well then these pedals IMO are going to need as much clean signal as possible and would be ideal candidates for parallel looping. Filters, on the other hand, seem work best by having the most complex wave-forms to be acting on.

I'm kinda landing on:

Initial in-series

BASS --> hpf --> comp -->

In parallel loops

- Synth

- Dirt

- Octave

Final in-series

--> filter --> modulation & delay --> AMP

Does that make sense?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Nice explanation of the Tri Parallel Mixer at 1.40 in the attached and bass demo starts at 2.40.

@stewblack - seems to me you've got yourself a really good bit of kit here! 

 

[GisserD]

all my pedals are in loops. individual ones. so i can run all of them series, or a few of them paralell. This is the luxury that the ES8 can deliver. 

[Al Krow]

13 minutes ago, GisserD said:

all my pedals are in loops. individual ones. so i can run all of them series, or a few of them parallel. This is the luxury that the ES8 can deliver. 

Good stuff Darren - I'm finally starting to appreciate the value of your ES8! Although, in my case, I'd need to have off board given its size which could make connecting up an ES8 interesting!

Which pedals do you particularly find benefit from being in parallel?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Al Krow

[stewblack]

On 25/08/2019 at 12:37, Al Krow said:

The piece of kit that @stewblack has recently got, looks really neat, compact, won't break the bank and has ease of live use with stomp buttons.

Was going to do a review once I gig it but at present I am still playing with all the permutations. 

It is well made and incredibly versatile. Everyone should have one if not two. 

[javi_bassist]

Very interesting topic. It's always nice to learn new things from you guys.

In my case, with a new project, I have the Boss LS-2. I've been thinking about going digital with the Line 6 HX Stomp. My thinking was to split the signal in two, like a Blend control from all the effects. Then, selecting frequencies etc.

However, since I have a full board of analog effects (and I love pedals!), I tried to do it simpler with just the Boss LS-2. My loops are:

Bass-->Compressor-->Octaver-->Boss LS-2-->HPF&LPF-->Preamp

Loop of the Boss: Fuzz-->Overdrive-->Chorus

I really thought if I should include the octaver in the loop. I finally let it out because sometimes I just use the octave, not the real note, so I would lose the possibility of using the effect just for the octave. The Fuzz, the overdrive and the chorus sound much better in parallel IMO. Especially the fuzz. I'm really happy with this board.

I have to say that when I play with my rock cover band, I just go series with Comp-->Overdrive-->Preamp

[Al Krow]

On 25/08/2019 at 17:32, krispn said:

There is an actual fx loop on the right hand side of the pedal (which can be set up as per the image and a dig about the global settings!). One of the features of the stomp is the integration and flexibility of the unit so it can do the sort of thing you're after as well as the series and parallel thing with effects in those loops etc. You already have the perfect bit of kit to practice on. If you'd prefer to have a box with knobs and not have to deep dive (click a few buttons) then that's a different thing. I shall leave you all to it

HX Stomp is defo a good suggestion to follow up on. I think the only two downsides to using the HX Stomp for parallel routing are:

(i) although it has two FX loops, each loop takes up a 'block' so you're at risk of only having 4 blocks left out of the already limited (some would say) 6 blocks on offer at the outset;

(ii) not everyone reading this thread has a Stomp!

Just come across this neat piece of kit - circa £55 which will take up minimal board space and allows two effects loops (probably for synth and dirt in my case), which should be plenty to be getting on with for those of us just starting to get into parallel routing.

 

[krispn]

 

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

HX Stomp is defo a good suggestion to follow up on. I think the only two downsides to using the HX Stomp for parallel routing are:

 (i) figuring out how it works

(ii) waiting for someone to tell me how it works

 

[Al Krow]

Nope - matey I guess you hadn't spotted or were not bovvered by the erosion of blocks point, which is actually a real issue?

Besides the purpose of this thread is not about the limitations of the HX Stomp or otherwise, but a discussion on parallel vs serial use of pedals - you got any of your pedals in parallel? If so, which ones and what benefit are you finding from doing that?

[krispn]

 

10 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Nope - matey I guess you hadn't spotted or were not bovvered by the erosion of blocks point, which is actually a real issue?

To your supposition...

It’s not really ‘erosion of blocks’ if you’re using them to get a particular sound, effect or function. I’d go so far the other way and say that’s the whole point of the stomp, making it fit your set up and it’s only one patch. You could have a different patch with all 6 fx blocks doing the work if you needed. 

 How many Stomp fx blocks are you using on any given sound or song at the minute? If you have one or two free blocks you could assign those to a loop and employ stand alone pedals in that loop to your desired effect and if you have any more free blocks use other Stomp based trickery as I’ve mentioned above. 

I don’t think it’s identifying limitations of the stomp and I’m simply saying your loop needs could be met by using gear you already own if you understand how to make it work for you. 

I alluded briefly above to my use of loops above and I think you’re already aware of my old set up. I used a Basswitch with a comp in the serial loop and a drive in the switchable loop which has a clean blend function. The Basswitch also has eq so I’d sometimes set that up for additional eq to help the drive along. Very good unit. I’m not using it for loops just now as I’ve slightly tweaked my set up on the board and it’s not quite as necessary and I’m happy with how my board is working.

As for A/B switching I’ve employed an A/B switcher in an old band where I used a lot of drive sounds. I had three different drives, two set up and ‘stacked’ in one loop and in the other, B loop, a massive sounding fuzz with its own clean blend so I had 4 drive sounds availability between the three pedals. Back then I had a aguilar db924 for bass and treble boost always on but that became less necessary and came off the board and was before the loop.