Neck through build

[Si600]

I've always sworn by, and occasionally at, the Schaller 3D series. The ones with the little roller to adjust the string spacing.

[Mikey R]

On 31/08/2019 at 21:24, Rexel Matador said:

Replaced them with little nails and all is well 👍

Did you make a note of where they are? You wouldn't want to hit one with a router when cutting the pickup and control cavities.

[Rexel Matador]

4 hours ago, Mikey R said:

Did you make a note of where they are? You wouldn't want to hit one with a router when cutting the pickup and control cavities.

Funny you should ask - I only thought of that once I’d done it, but luckily they won’t be in the way!

[durhamboy]

Si600's recommendation for Schaller is a good one, I've been using there stuff since the 70's and it is top class. If you want quality at a cheaper price, Gotoh hardware would be my pick. 

[Rexel Matador]

This is roughly the body shape I'm thinking of. I suspect that not having a long upper horn will screw up the balance and create neck dive though. Would putting the strap button on the heal mitigate it, do you think?

[honza992]

1 hour ago, Rexel Matador said:

This is roughly the body shape I'm thinking of. I suspect that not having a long upper horn will screw up the balance and create neck dive though. Would putting the strap button on the heal mitigate it, do you think?

Make sure you mark out the position of the bridge, and get it as near to the end of the bass as possible, that will help with neck dive.  Once you've done that have a look and see which fret the front strap button is level with.   Most basses have the strap button line up with fret 12 or 13.  Personally I aim for fret 11 as I'm pretty sensitive to neck dive.  The other critical thing is using light weight tuners.  Ultralites can't be beat my opinion, and the non-USA ones are cheaper and are still great. 

@Andyjr1515 is yer man for funky strap button locations, but yes it will make a difference. 

I'm also just wondering whether the neck pocket is just a tad on the small side?  Of course if you can move the bridge closer to the end of the bass, that will also make the neck pocket bigger.....

Edited September 5, 2019 by honza992

[durhamboy]

I notice from the pictures of your build in the gluing up stage that the body wings extend quite a way forward, so you have enough wood there for a longer upper bout. If you want to have a single cut look, rather than an upper horn type look, perhaps check out some versions of single cut body shapes? 

Neck dive is can be a real pain, some people don't seem to be bothered, but others find it an unbearable problem. Just consider, once you cut the wood away you're pretty much committed. 

As you're working on a neck through build you don't have a neck pocket or traditional heel to be concerned about, you can shape the neck/body transition in a variety of ways including deep cutaways on both sides of the neck, or just on the treble side if you want to extend the upper bout to reduce neck dive. You can get pretty inventive with a neck through build.

It might be worth checking out how different builders and manufacturers approach their builds.

[Andyjr1515]

12 hours ago, honza992 said:

Make sure you mark out the position of the bridge, and get it as near to the end of the bass as possible, that will help with neck dive.  Once you've done that have a look and see which fret the front strap button is level with.   Most basses have the strap button line up with fret 12 or 13.  Personally I aim for fret 11 as I'm pretty sensitive to neck dive.  The other critical thing is using light weight tuners.  Ultralites can't be beat my opinion, and the non-USA ones are cheaper and are still great. 

@Andyjr1515 is yer man for funky strap button locations, but yes it will make a difference. 

Hi All

Sorry for the radio silence over the past few days - we had a major family get together at the weekend that didn't return to normal until yesterday.

It will depend, to an extent, on the body weight but yes, I agree with @honza992 about the strap button being level with the 12th/13th fret as being a 'sweet spot' for preventing neck dive.  In general terms, at this position you can usually take some liberties with body weight relief, headstock shape, tuner choice, etc..  

The further the button heads towards the 14th and 15th fret, then you have to start taking actions such as:

•  Lightweight tuners (there are more good ones on the market nowadays at a more affordable price than the good but eye-wateringly expensive Hipshot ones)
•  Smaller headstock
•  Going 2 a side rather than 4 in line
•  Limiting any major weight relief plans for the body (which, of course, you may not have)

And this is why single cut basses look like they look.  The 'beluga whale' results (accusations you often see on forums of single-cuts) aren't trendy/avant-garde design statements - they are the result of simple geometry and physics.

And yes, putting the button at far side of the heel, acoustic guitar style, can help a bit - but won't be able to compensate for too poor a neck positioning or major imbalance of body and headstock weights.

So, if it was me, I would be:

•  Shifting the bridge back as far as I could (as @honza992 also suggests above).  This also reduces the arm stretch when playing a 34" which tends to be more comfortable.
• Then, having worked out the new 12th - 16th fret positions,  tweak the upper horn shape as much as I could towards the 13th fret without losing the desired overall shape
• If I was still some way away from the 12th/13th fret, I would then be considering 2-a-side tuners to reduce the leverage effect of the tuners and the longer headstock of the 4-in-line
•  I would also be looking at the Schaller lightweight tuners or maybe the licenced Hipshot Lites from Axesrus

Hope this helps

Edited September 6, 2019 by Andyjr1515

[Rexel Matador]

10 hours ago, durhamboy said:

It might be worth checking out how different builders and manufacturers approach their builds.

Yep, I must have looked at every picture of a neck-through heel on the internet! I'm not too worried about that bit, I quite like carving - I enjoy the parts of the build where there's a bit of leeway and I can just proceed slowly until it looks nice. It's the bits where I have to be accurate to a millimetre while holding a vibrating juggernaut that stress me out!

In any case, I'll probably play it safe this time and do an upper horn - both to prevent neck dive and it'll also make the neck transition a bit more straightforward to shape. I wasn't looking forward to doing the sharp angle where the non-cutaway upper bout meets the neck.

I have a soft spot for tele shaped basses but I realise that they're probably fairly rare for a reason! Maybe it would work on a short-scale - something to think about for my next build - but I'm getting ahead of myself, as usual 😆

7 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

And this is why single cut basses look like they look.  The 'beluga whale' accusations you often see on forums of single-cuts aren't trendy/avant-garde statements - they are the result of simple geometry and physics.

Indeed - and, as practical as it is, I can't stand that look!

7 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

•  I would also be looking at the Schaller lightweight tuners or maybe the licenced Hipshot Lites from Axesrus

I didn't know about the licenced tuners, thanks - I was indeed a little put off by the prices I had seen for the hipshots.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Rexel Matador

[Andyjr1515]

34 minutes ago, Rexel Matador said:

I didn't know about the licenced tuners, thanks - I was indeed a little put off by the prices I had seen for the hipshots

They are here - half the price as Hipshots.  https://www.axesrus.co.uk/1-x-Hipshot-Licensed-UltraLite-Bass-Machine-Head-p/20650kc.htm

I have always had good service from Axesrus and would expect that the quality is likely to be pretty good. I've used their own brand guitar tuners for years.

 

[durhamboy]

I just had a look at those tuners as they sounded pretty good and I've never been a fan of the big old Fender type tuners. Unless I misread the weight given on the site, (or the given weight is wrong or a typo) they didn't seem that light at 95g each, so I checked the weight of a Gotoh GB707 and it came out at 66g. So 264 grams for a set of 4 which is pretty light. (Old style Fender tuners are a tad over 100 grams each) Gotohs are generaly relatively inexpensive, at least compared to the likes of Hipshot, Schaller etc.

[Rexel Matador]

2 hours ago, durhamboy said:

I just had a look at those tuners as they sounded pretty good and I've never been a fan of the big old Fender type tuners. Unless I misread the weight given on the site, (or the given weight is wrong or a typo) they didn't seem that light at 95g each, so I checked the weight of a Gotoh GB707 and it came out at 66g. So 264 grams for a set of 4 which is pretty light. (Old style Fender tuners are a tad over 100 grams each) Gotohs are generaly relatively inexpensive, at least compared to the likes of Hipshot, Schaller etc.

Interesting - if that's true then they really have no business calling them "Ultralite"! I've checked around though, and other sites list them as 1.8oz, which is 51 grams.

[durhamboy]

Yes, interesting that you found them listed as being 51 grams, that sounds more like it. As I said, the figures on the site mentioned might have got it wrong or it 's a typo. Research nearly always pays of...

[Rexel Matador]

No pictures yet - maybe later - but just an update to say I've reached the point I reach every time where it's not turning out as perfect as it was in my head and I feel like giving up. The neck is somehow not aligned perfectly centrally, which is pretty much job #1 on a through-neck, so it'll end up looking a bit goofy.

I will carry on of course - just wallowing in a bit of self pity here.

I was tearing my hair out over the body shape, so I just went at it with the jigsaw and now I'm going to improvise with chisels and stuff until I have something I like.

[durhamboy]

Even if it won't be perfect, or turn out exactly as you pictured it, if it still plays and sounds OK, then at worst you've burnt up some hours on it and learned from the experience. Stick with it and good luck with the body shaping.

[NickA]

On 02/09/2019 at 16:38, Si600 said:

I've always sworn by, and occasionally at, the Schaller 3D series. The ones with the little roller to adjust the string spacing

These are great.  I have four electric basses and on not one of them does everything quite line up ( the Wals included ), so don't get too sore about your unaligned neck.

On my Northworthy bass, the misalignment of neck, pickups and bridge was my own fault as I left Alan Marshall making the neck and took the body away to fit with tronics ... And yet!!!! This one has the best string/pickup alignment of the four, by dint of the schaller 3d bridge.

Actually the Warwick isn't bad; the bottom half of the two piece bridge is squiff but the upper part is adjustable side to side ( with difficulty ) so the strings can align with the pickups and neck.

Looking forward to seeing the end result anyway.

Nb:

Gotoh tuners .. great, very smooth, very low gear ratio. Bought some with trepidation for the Northworthy bass.  Actually work better than schaller lights despite feeling a little flimsy by comparison.
 

[Rexel Matador]

Well, it's been a while, but the wonky wonder is still under construction. Fretboard is on and I've started shaping the body.

[Andyjr1515]

Excellent!

[Rexel Matador]

Basic shaping is pretty much done. If anyone needs me, I'll probably be sanding 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Rexel Matador

[Andyjr1515]

It'll be worth it, though.

Looking good

[Si600]

1 hour ago, Rexel Matador said:

 

Put that volute away before You-Know-Who sees it 😉

[SpondonBassed]

14 hours ago, Rexel Matador said:

 

13 hours ago, Si600 said:

Put that volute away before You-Know-Who sees it 😉

Mmmm, tactile.  That's a nicely shaped headstock too.

[Rexel Matador]

Shaping up...

[Unknown_User]

That looks lovely.

[Rexel Matador]

Just spent the entire evening making this barely visible scratchplate. Was going to give up after cracking the second attempt, but then I realised I'd already made a couple of the screw holes. I'm glad I persevered though, I think it adds something.