Unknown_User Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Self taught electric bass player here. I've never played a fretless instrument before and I've recently acquired a double bass for a couple of years, which I'm looking after for my wife's friend's husband while he is working abroad. I've looked through a few YouTube videos which have half gone over my head, but I can work out how to find the fifth and seventh "frets" (as my understanding of it would be) using adjacent open strings and the octave using the harmonics. So far I can play a poorly intonated scale and the ropiest version of the intro/verse from "Lovecats" by The Cure that you'll ever hear! I'm finding the right hand technique pretty tough and physically hard work. I'm kind of plucking like I would on an electric bass, which isn't easy because I normally use a plectrum. 😀 When I've seen people play, they seem to be kind of tapping the string, but I'm struggling to get a meaningful sound doing that. Not to be deterred, can any of you recommend any good beginner songs or riffs to learn? Or any other more general advice or good resources? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Double bass is a great journey! Check out Discover Double Bass online. Geoff is a member here and the resource is brilliant! I’d thoroughly recommend getting at least a couple of lessons from a pro. If you do things wrong with your technique you could hurt yourself. Which is never good. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 All sorts of stuff going on there! +1 to getting at the very least an introductory lesson from a pro, learn how to stand, how to position yourself, etc. Learn to pluck before you think about learning to slap; these are two very different techniques and you'll confuse the hell out of yourself if you try both at the same time. Re-think every bass line. DB is NOT like a big electro-acoustic bass, it's a totally different animal. Play only in the first five positions to start, use lots of open strings, play half as many notes. In haste ... 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, Happy Jack said: All sorts of stuff going on there! +1 to getting at the very least an introductory lesson from a pro, learn how to stand, how to position yourself, etc. Learn to pluck before you think about learning to slap; these are two very different techniques and you'll confuse the hell out of yourself if you try both at the same time. Re-think every bass line. DB is NOT like a big electro-acoustic bass, it's a totally different animal. Play only in the first five positions to start, use lots of open strings, play half as many notes. In haste ... Thanks! Can I ask what you mean by the first five positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 42 minutes ago, Unknown_User said: Thanks! Can I ask what you mean by the first five positions? It’s a reference to the Simandl book which helps you navigate the fingerboard. If you’re coming from electric bass think the open strings and first 5 frets. Playing DB is often about economy of movement, minimising the shifts you need to make and playing fluently. It’s easier said than done on such a big and unwieldy instrument. If you can read music (or want to learn) the Simandl book is great for improving your knowledge of the fingerboard and building a good technique and intonation. Again, I’d thoroughly recommend working through it with a teacher if you’re interested. While you can use any technique you like, it’s best to at least attempt to follow the orthodoxy at least for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 Thanks @Burns-bass. I'll be honest it's unlikely I'll find the time or money to be able to justify taking lessons at it, but I've found a copy of that book (despite not being able to read music) and will take a look through. There may also be stuff in the library that I can check out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Learn how to pluck a double bass properly. DON'T pluck it the way you pluck an electric - your wrist will eventually get b*ggered. The fingering is also different. Hence the need to have at least one initial one-to-one lesson, so someone can actually grab your hands and place them in the correct position on the fingerboard and by the bridge, and show you the movements. The simple fact that you are interested in starting on double bass justifies the £40-50 you will spend, and will save you more than money in the long run. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Unknown_User said: Thanks @Burns-bass. I'll be honest it's unlikely I'll find the time or money to be able to justify taking lessons at it, but I've found a copy of that book (despite not being able to read music) and will take a look through. There may also be stuff in the library that I can check out. I get it. Definitely check out Geoff’s lessons online. Where are you based? I’m no expert but I can pass on a few pointers if you’re near Bristol (although there are much better players on this forum from my neck of the woods!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: I get it. Definitely check out Geoff’s lessons online. Where are you based? I’m no expert but I can pass on a few pointers if you’re near Bristol (although there are much better players on this forum from my neck of the woods!) Cheers. I've bookmarked the page for when I get home and will check them out. I do understand that lessons would be a valuable way to get things right from the start, but at the moment I just want to branch out and have a bit of fun learning rather than take it too seriously. That's very kind of you to offer but I'm in Liverpool so it would be a bit of a trek! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petebassist Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I learnt the basics from Ed Friedland, not in person of course but via his excellent DVD Jazz Upright Bass Featuring Ed Friedland. It starts right from scratch with holding the bass, and finger technique for both hands, so not all of it is specific to jazz playing. I've never had a face to face lesson with a pro, as they're pretty hard to come by I've found. @Silvia Bluejay's advice about using the correct technique to avoid straining your wrist & fingers is invaluable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Get lessons! DB is an entirely different beastie and it’s really easy to damage yourself unless your technique is safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Get a Powerball to build up strength (Amazon do them fairly cheaply). Little and often is how to practice initially. YouTube is good and use some fret markers in the early days. It's a different instrument so don't treat it like a bass guitar. The Johnny Cash basslines are pretty simple, as are a lot of old rock 'n' roll classics so a great place to start. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Perfect fret markers, every time ... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Snopake-PinPoint-Correction-Pen-7ml/dp/B00E3T8TU2/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=snopake+pen&qid=1567090979&s=gateway&sr=8-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 The joy of plucking properly is that when your forefinger is blistered you can still play electric bass with the unblistered part in the normal way 🙂 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Or indeed the other way round! I sometimes can't touch an electric bass, but can play upright with no pain whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 O Oh Ohh Simandl. I hate it. It is the dullest book ever written. Full of tuneless sequences of notes. But sadly it is a hell we all have to go through to get the basics down (tho you do need to read music). There are other techniques, but this ancient tome, designed for classical bassists playing gut strings with a bow and an action measured in inches, is kind of baseline standard. I've seen so many rock and bluegrass bassists stalled with a bunch of bananas technique trying to change notes by shifting their whole hand about ... I'm not convinced you can injure yourself doing that, but it's severely limiting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I must say I agree with the above. With modern double basses, nice strings, low action, etc., and even more with smaller hollowbody or electric uprights, there is no need to use Simandl, unless your hands are small and/or weak - as mine were when I started. As soon as I built up some stamina, I stopped fingering notes by using my ring and little finger together, and instead started applying a sort of 'expanded' version of my fretless bass guitar technique. It seems to work. I still use the correct plucking movement, though - that's very important! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said: I must say I agree with the above. With modern double basses, nice strings, low action, etc., and even more with smaller hollowbody or electric uprights, there is no need to use Simandl, unless your hands are small and/or weak - as mine were when I started. As soon as I built up some stamina, I stopped fingering notes by using my ring and little finger together, and instead started applying a sort of 'expanded' version of my fretless bass guitar technique. It seems to work. I still use the correct plucking movement, though - that's very important! I guess you do whatever works. I found the Simandl book was brilliant for improving my intonation. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Burns-bass said: I guess you do whatever works. I found the Simandl book was brilliant for improving my intonation. Yes - my post assumed my intonation had already been sorted (to a certain extent). Following Simandl to get the visual and muscle memory reference points on the neck is a good start, so your fingertips are never too far away from the correct pitch. I do find muscle memory useful now, rather than visual clues. However, I'm not an upright player who goes all over the fingerboard - I tend to groove rather than solo, and I think that makes it easier for me to not need Simandl all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said: Yes - my post assumed my intonation had already been sorted (to a certain extent). Following Simandl to get the visual and muscle memory reference points on the neck is a good start, so your fingertips are never too far away from the correct pitch. I do find muscle memory useful now, rather than visual clues. However, I'm not an upright player who goes all over the fingerboard - I tend to groove rather than solo, and I think that makes it easier for me to not need Simandl all the time. Totally agree! The reason the Simandl book works is that it fixes in your memory the point and pivots needed. It can be dull (although I never found it to be so) but is a much more effective way to learn than adding note markers which require you to crane your neck around and look at the fingerboard. Anyway, we've had this discussion before, and I'd say that anything that gets you playing is worth it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I got my DB last year and had about 4 lessons earlier this year and that has helped me get started with the right stance and fingering. The Simamdl book was recommended to me by another db pro player and im working through that though it is quite boring. I also use the Ireal book app, take the bass line put if the tracks and play along so i get to play along with the score. Im not a strong reader but it helps to play along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 I had a crack last night at following a few of the Discover Double Bdonkey lessons that @Burns-bass recommended and they were very helpful. Particularly on explaining the right hand technique. I will go through a few more of those when I get the chance. For now I plan to take it slowly and keep up with those video lessons. Thanks all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 37 minutes ago, Unknown_User said: I had a crack last night at following a few of the Discover Double Bdonkey lessons that @Burns-bass recommended and they were very helpful. Particularly on explaining the right hand technique. I will go through a few more of those when I get the chance. For now I plan to take it slowly and keep up with those video lessons. Thanks all! Fantastic. Geoff is a member here and I've always found his videos reassuringly simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown_User Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: Fantastic. Geoff is a member here and I've always found his videos reassuringly simple. Haha! Just noticed "Discover Double Bdonkey" in my message there. Is "b4ss" a dirty word on here now! Testing: Bass Edit: It worked that time. How strange! Edited August 30, 2019 by Unknown_User 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 31, 2019 Share Posted August 31, 2019 I rather like "Double Bdonkey", it has a nice ring to it. Might start calling it that when in discussion with bandmates ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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