Bluewine Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 Guys with young active families and traditional careers will more than likely have to block dates. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Newfoundfreedom said: I'm kind of on the other side of this. It all depends on what level of professionalism, expectation and life commitment the various band members are wanting from the band. I've just left (broken up) my band for similar reasons. I made it perfectly clear before we even got together and played a note that to me it was nothing more than a hobby and I didn't want to be out gigging every weekend. Which at the time everyone was fine with. Then a few months in the goal posts were moved, 12 gigs in 10 weeks plus weekly practice in between and I'd had enough. I just couldn't maintain that kind of time commitment, even if I had wanted to. So it's all well and good making the guitarist the villain in the story, but it just sounds to me like he's retired and wants to chill out. Why should be put his life and retirement on hold for the band if he can get a last minute cheap cruise to the Bahamas and enjoy his retirement? I think holiday dates are the least of your problems. You need to sit down and have a serious chat about what everyone is expecting from the band, because if you're expecting to be booking gigs months in advance and everyone to build the rest of their lives around that, it sounds to me like you're going to be looking for another guitarist. I read this quite differently It's not that the guitarist is saying that he doesn't want to do the gigs, or that more gigs are being booked than he is comfortable with, in fact he's saying that the band should be booking gigs, but that as and when he arranges his holidays he isn't going to pay any attention to gigs that are in the diary and those can just be cancelled If it was simply that the band wanted to do more gigs than the guitarist then there would be a very simple solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 9 hours ago, Bluewine said: Guys with young active families and traditional careers will more than likely have to block dates. Blue I have a 5yr old daughter, we're expecting another arrival in December and I also run a busy pest control business. I'll do about 100 gigs a year and with the exception of blocking out two weeks around my wife's due date I won't miss any other gigs in 2019 / 2020. That said, all my gigs are well paid and will allow my wife to have 18months off work when baby comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, mrtcat said: I have a 5yr old daughter, we're expecting another arrival in December and I also run a busy pest control business. I'll do about 100 gigs a year and with the exception of blocking out two weeks around my wife's due date I won't miss any other gigs in 2019 / 2020. That said, all my gigs are well paid and will allow my wife to have 18months off work when baby comes. Your the exception. Would you and your family be ok without your income from the band? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted September 6, 2019 Share Posted September 6, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 21:04, Sibob said: Just get a dep for the gig(s) he’s away for?! Sorted Si My thoughts exactly. You have to consider why you’re playing, is it a job, or for enjoyment? There’s a band I play for, they're all retired. Their regular bassist goes caravanning a lot during the summer months, the keys player has family abroad, so visits them, he also has a caravan in Wales that he goes to. So they have deps to cover as required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 9 hours ago, Bluewine said: Your the exception. Would you and your family be ok without your income from the band? Blue Yeah, my pest control business is plenty profitable enough to support us but the gigs mean we have a nice little extra income for a decent family car, good holidays and a buffer for maternity leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 8 hours ago, mrtcat said: Yeah, my pest control business is plenty profitable enough to support us but the gigs mean we have a nice little extra income for a decent family car, good holidays and a buffer for maternity leave. That's fantastic , however with a career , a family and playing 100 gigs a year your definitely an exception. Besides me , I don't know any guys that would even want to gig that much. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 On 05/09/2019 at 16:38, Bassman Sam said: I'm with Lozz. He should work his holidays around the gigs. He needs to show some professionalism. Totally agree. If you have a gig booked you are booked and not free to do anything else, within reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 On 06/09/2019 at 11:34, Newfoundfreedom said: So it's all well and good making the guitarist the villain in the story, but it just sounds to me like he's retired and wants to chill out. Why should be put his life and retirement on hold for the band if he can get a last minute cheap cruise to the Bahamas and enjoy his retirement? Nah , he is the villain. No one on here is begrudging the lad his retirement and good luck to him but this is not workable in any way shape or form. There's obviously some "only guitarist in the village" thing going on as the OP says it's practically impossible to get another guitarist (so that scuppers the 'get a dep when required') so we'll have to accept that's the situation but that's got to be the only reason this lad can ever think he's going to be in a band again. He may be great and have had an illustrious career in what ever size pond he's been swimming in but It's a racing certainty that he's NEVER been the one putting the gigs in for a band or he wouldn't think for a second his terms are acceptable. @Newfoundfreedom you had the goal posts moved so you left your band and quite rightly as it wasn't what you agreed to in the beginning. If you read the OP you'll see that he had the goal posts moved after the start too. He's right to be miffed as you obviously were. Les 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I’m having issues with my guitarist. Joined last Nov as he wants to gig etc. Away with his wife almost 3 weekends out of 4 every month over the past 6 months. Just keeps booking weekends away. Not flexible at all, and yet keeps asking when the gigs are coming in. Ive turned down 7 since June because he isn’t available and it’s really hard to get motivation to try and get gigs knowing I’ll probably have to turn them down. Now I know it’s not the same thing, if we had a gig he would hopefully honour it, and I’m not going to book anything where he says he isn’t free, but he randomly adds these weekends to the Callander and must realise it doesn’t leave us much room to gig. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigyin Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 5 hours ago, Les said: Nah , he is the villain. No one on here is begrudging the lad his retirement and good luck to him but this is not workable in any way shape or form. There's obviously some "only guitarist in the village" thing going on as the OP says it's practically impossible to get another guitarist (so that scuppers the 'get a dep when required') so we'll have to accept that's the situation but that's got to be the only reason this lad can ever think he's going to be in a band again. He may be great and have had an illustrious career in what ever size pond he's been swimming in but It's a racing certainty that he's NEVER been the one putting the gigs in for a band or he wouldn't think for a second his terms are acceptable. @Newfoundfreedom you had the goal posts moved so you left your band and quite rightly as it wasn't what you agreed to in the beginning. If you read the OP you'll see that he had the goal posts moved after the start too. He's right to be miffed as you obviously were. Les Thankyou.....been trying hard to keep things amicable between myself and the Guitarist trying to make him see my point of view regarding booking gigs and honouring them....but I think he's spat his dummy out and barely replied to my messages. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigyin Posted September 8, 2019 Author Share Posted September 8, 2019 4 hours ago, dave_bass5 said: I’m having issues with my guitarist. Joined last Nov as he wants to gig etc. Away with his wife almost 3 weekends out of 4 every month over the past 6 months. Just keeps booking weekends away. Not flexible at all, and yet keeps asking when the gigs are coming in. Ive turned down 7 since June because he isn’t available and it’s really hard to get motivation to try and get gigs knowing I’ll probably have to turn them down. Now I know it’s not the same thing, if we had a gig he would hopefully honour it, and I’m not going to book anything where he says he isn’t free, but he randomly adds these weekends to the Callander and must realise it doesn’t leave us much room to gig. That's bad must be so frustrating Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, thebigyin said: That's bad must be so frustrating Yes, very frustrating. I look on musicians in bands as being in one of two categories. Playing in a band, where you put the effort in, realise you are part of a team and have an obligation to deliver what’s needed. The second is playing at playing in a band. This latter category pretty much includes all my band other than me. Likes the idea of being in a band, likes occasionally rehearsing so they can play extra loud, but on the commitment scale the band is nowhere near the top so will fit in when it suits. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Why can’t you just get a dep? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) Why should he have to find a dep for ONE gig arranged yonks in advance? Sack the bugger. You all need to be on the same page. Edited September 8, 2019 by 12stringbassist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 12 hours ago, dave_bass5 said: I’m having issues with my guitarist. Joined last Nov as he wants to gig etc. Away with his wife almost 3 weekends out of 4 every month over the past 6 months. Just keeps booking weekends away. Not flexible at all, and yet keeps asking when the gigs are coming in. As much use as a chocolate fireguard - get rid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 hours ago, 12stringbassist said: As much use as a chocolate fireguard - get rid. Been rehearsing for too long, couldn’t face starting again with a new guitarist. We are at the stage where we can gig, but getting someone new in could put us right back to the start. Until we have done a few gigs and have gigs to offer it’s not easy finding someone that is both good and committed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Its the same old story.....those who dont try to book the gigs, are always the ones happy to cancel them at the drop of a hat. Ask him to book the gigs, then he'll realise how difficult it is, and think twice about cancelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 9 hours ago, 12stringbassist said: Why should he have to find a dep for ONE gig arranged yonks in advance? Sack the bugger. You all need to be on the same page. It’s not one gig though, is it? It’s cover against future gigs that he can’t make. I’ve never played for any band that hasn’t at times had gigs that have clashed with people’s private lives. They’re organised and have deps that they can call upon. People do have lives outside of bands, especially if the band is amateur, and meant to be fun. People get invited to weddings, birthdays, they have birthdays themselves, their wives or partners have birthdays. They get ill, and they go on holiday. I’m sure he wouldn’t be popular with his wife if he told her they’d have to plan what they do around the band. The one band I play for consists of a group of retired school teachers. The one guy has a caravan in Wales, and daughters in France and Spain. In the summer he goes to his caravan at least once a month, and visits his daughters. Another guy volunteers for a local steam railway, he plays with another band, and goes caravanning. He also spends a month every year in New Zealand visiting his son and daughter in law. The band works around them, theirs friends, they organise deps....one of which is me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 22 hours ago, dave_bass5 said: I’m having issues with my guitarist. Joined last Nov as he wants to gig etc. Away with his wife almost 3 weekends out of 4 every month over the past 6 months. Just keeps booking weekends away. Not flexible at all, and yet keeps asking when the gigs are coming in. Ive turned down 7 since June because he isn’t available and it’s really hard to get motivation to try and get gigs knowing I’ll probably have to turn them down. Now I know it’s not the same thing, if we had a gig he would hopefully honour it, and I’m not going to book anything where he says he isn’t free, but he randomly adds these weekends to the Callander and must realise it doesn’t leave us much room to gig. s'funny isn't it, there's always one in the band who does absolutely nothing but turn down gig dates because they don't suit him, or never reply to the messages asking whether they are free on a particular date, and they are always the person who complains the loudest about not having any gigs lined up In one of my old bands, the rhythm guitarist organised our first couple of gigs through contacts he had from another band, but then exploded and told everybody that he wasn't going to book any more because the lead guitarist did nothing but complain about how awful they were to play. So I then organised the next couple and he did exactly the same, just a little black cloud of misery about how badly organised everything was, how he wasn't happy with his sound and that was apparently everybody else's fault, etc. But it never once occurred to him that if he didn't like the gigs we were playing then he could book some himself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightsun Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Whomever gets in the diary first gets me, and unless the earth is falling around my ears I do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 I have a mate who has played guitar in a band I was in. He has a nice job with a bank and brilliant gear and is a real tech head about guitars. With his brilliant job goes brilliant pay. With his brilliant pay, they have bought a holiday home abroad. He likes long weekends in the sun with his Mrs. He has messed about five bands around in the last couple of years. Gigs pulled, unable to plan ahead. Love the guy to bits but I would never be in a band with him again. He really needs to stick to going to jam nights, rather than being in a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 06/09/2019 at 13:06, Bluewine said: Guys with young active families and traditional careers will more than likely have to block dates. Blue It's ok for people to block dates out as 'not available'. When people do that, you know what you have to work with. In the instance above of the guy who turns down gigs willy nilly to spend weekends with his wife - he needs to own up and be honest and say that being in a band is at the bottom of his list of priorities. Bands with a player like this maybe need to realise that, sooner rather than later, he will be more of a problem than an asset. As in my post just above, I have had someone in my band who was effectively a time-waster and have watched him bounce from band to band in the last couple of years, making these bands disintegrate. The worst thing is, he seems oblivious to why it happens when i talk to him. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the situation of the original poster, whose guitarist has just declared himself unavailable for booked gigs.... and unable to commit to next year because he doesn't know when his holidays are yet. That comes with some jobs, but as far as the band goes, it is a problem. If it was me faced with this situation and getting another guitarist was virtually impossible, I would find another band myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) don't have a problem with people being unavailable, our drummer likes a weekend off every month but as long as they're in the band calendar with plenty of warning it's not a problem, I try and book holidays when other band members are off but there's one week in they year where I have no choice, but it's on the calendar 9 months in advance. But it all boils down to how much people want to gig I suppose. edit, and pressure from wives and partners Edited September 9, 2019 by PaulWarning 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) totally agree with @12stringbassist It's like @dave_bass5 says, some people actually want to be in a band, some people just want to be able to tell everybody that they are in a band without having to do any of the hard graft like actually playing gigs And can't see that their attitude of only showing up when it completely suits them is at all unfair on the other members of the band. After all, they are "really committed" to playing when they aren't at their holiday home, or doing the weekly shop, or watching football, and it's a night that EastEnders isn't on... It's usually a short step from there to the "I only do this for enjoyment so if I'm not enjoying every second of it you shouldn't expect me to be here" speech, completely unaware that there are other people in the band who would be enjoying things a bit more if they weren't such a c#nt Why it's never a short step to actually looking for band mates who have a similar attitude and only want to play a handful of times during a year is completely beyond me Edited September 9, 2019 by Monkey Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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