Bass Mag 5 string shootout

[mcgraham]

Did anyone else read the shootout between the five 5 strings in January issue of Bass Guitar Magazine (I think it was this mag?)

It was (IIRC) between a Nordy vJ5, GMR, GB Rumour, Wood&Tronics Spectrum and a Mayones. The GB was the outright winner, followed by the Nordy, joint 3rd for the GMR and Mayones, with the W&T coming last (shockingly!).

What did everyone else think?

Mark

[jacko]

I'm not that keen on GB anyway but I thought they had an unfair advantage using a bass that cost 2 or 3 grand more than the other instruments in the test. I'd have liked to have seen Overwater represented.

[alexclaber]

Once you're into this kind level of price and customisation surely it comes down almost entirely to personal taste?

Alex

[GreeneKing]

I did wonder at the time it takes to do all the photo's and comparisons etc and they didn't put a new set of strings on a bass (Mayones) to give it a fair assessment.

It was interesting to see the Nordy do so well. The GB looked stunning too. I thought the GMR multi laminate neck thru made it the prettiest though.

I do think it would have been interesting to put my old (as in mine no more) 5 string ACG Harlot up against them all. The ACG 01 pre-amp comparison alongside the more conventional pre's there would of proven fascinating and the price/quality and to me, ascetics would have been a very worthwhile comparison methinks.

Edited December 27, 2008 by GreeneKing

[EBS_freak]

Yes, I saw that article and I was very interested in it...

After reading the latest issue of Bass Guitar Magazine (Issue 40 Jan/Feb 2009), I was a little surprised at some of the content in the “Five After Five 5-String Bass Shootout” article - especially some of those made in regard to the GB Rumour. I wish to address some of the comments that were made about the GB Rumour and as I am the owner of the actual bass that was reviewed, I feel that I am more than qualified to comment on some of the remarks made. Before I start, I would like to confirm that this text is not a sour grapes thing or anything like that, it’s for those interested in what the magazine missed, neglected to mention, or simply got wrong. Afterall, the Rumour did win hands down.

When Bernie Goodfellow asked me if the magazine could borrow my bass for “a 5-string shootout of the super exotic”, naturally I was curious as to what it would be put up against. Naturally, when words like “exotic” are banded around, I immediately, like a lot of other players, think of the likes of Alembic, Fodera etc. Sadly, those names were not present in the review, but regardless of that, I think the review made for some interesting reading and introduced me to some basses that I had certainly not heard of before. Those who have seen my Rumour before will probably know it as perhaps the most “exotic” GB has ever made.

So, what exactly does this “exotic” word mean anyway? I checked it out in the dictionary:
Main Entry:

1ex•ot•ic
Pronunciation:
\ig-‘zä-tik\

Function:
adjective

Etymology:
Latin exoticus, from Greek exōtikos, from exō

Date:
1599

Meaning:
Strikingly, excitingly, or mysteriously different or unusual

On the face of the review, it goes without saying that the GB gets a good review with nearly a flawless score across the board. I actually discard the value for money rating on magazine reviews as the item being reviewed costs what it does – but when you see the amount of work that goes into constructing a GB, I actually think that it is a very competitive price.

The underlying theme of the price of the instrument bothered me; this score also seems to discard the flawless after sales care that Bernie Goodfellow offers. Those who already have GB instruments will know what I am talking about – and it’s very difficult to put a price on that. As Jacko points out, the GB did cost a good couple of grand more than the others – but Bernie put that bass forward as he was asked for an example that he would submit for an "super exotic" bass shootout. Perhaps, the choice of bass was "too" exotic for this particular shootout.

I presume the score of 4 for the comfort factor is due to the weight. Granted, it is heavier than other GBs – but it is fully loaded and that means it is carrying two circuit boards and four 9v batteries. It is by no means uncomfortable though; I guarantee that it is a hell of a lot lighter than most Rics, Fenders and Warwicks that I have played.

Ergonomically, the Rumour is perfectly balanced and sits well on the leg for playing whilst seated (e.g. when it is not even supported by a strap). Bernie is one of the few luthiers out there who is a dedicated bass player, who has played professionally for a living and hence can appreciate how a bass should perform, sound and appropriately for this section, feel like. The more observant of you will have seen that the Rumour has two Schaller strap locks along the bottom edge. This not only serves to balance the instrument so that it doesn’t fall over when leaning it against an amp or similar (not that I do – I always use a dedicated bass stand), it actually offers two very different playing positions when using the bass with a strap. Using the uppermost strap button, the way that the bass lays against the body is akin to the familiar position found when using most basses. When using the lower strap button, the instrument is pulled in and makes the instrument lie parallel with the player’s body. The latter choice is actually my preference but I appreciate that this may not be everybody’s chosen thing – however, the option is there. A final point about the strap buttons; did anybody notice the two leather washers (hand cut by Bernie to match the colour of the walnut top and purple heart feature) that lie between the strap lock and the body of the bass? There is no felt to be found here; whilst it is a small feature, surely the attention to detail to this degree suggests "exotic" beyond the norm.

The wood used for this guitar is of the highest grade, even the flame maple sides are outrageous. The maple on this bass, both on the neck and the sides of the instrument, exceeds that I have seen on any Les Paul top. For the first time ever on a GB, the access cavities on the rear of this instrument were laser cut (not hand cut like some other manufacturers) at my request (for the tightest, perfect fit) from the actual facing wood and then replaced. Some other boutique manufacturers (not mentioned in the review) commanding larger price tags do not have this attention to detail. If you are going to buy beautiful pieces of wood to use as facings, why route a significant proportion of it away to be replaced by a metal or plastic plate or another piece of wood which doesn’t match the facing? The fact that the rear of the instrument is as pretty as the front, to me, screams exotic. No battery clips to be seen here – just a magnetic wood cover that can simply be popped open by hand to facilitate the tool free changing of batteries. Beautiful and equally functional. (It may be worth noting that that the other cavities are screwed down as there is usually no need to open those covers – in fact, the only item that you may need to access is a trim pot on the G Spot daughter circuit board that is used to adjust the output of the G Spot to taste).

Of course, when loading an instrument with a preamp circuit, a LED controller circuit and a battery compartment for four 9v batteries (two for the preamp and two for the LEDs), a great deal of planning has to take place before the very first cut. As the LED controller contains switching circuitry, it has to be placed away from the preamp circuit and pickups in a fashion so that there is no interference to the sound when the LEDs are operational. The screening of all the cavities is top notch – as you would expect on a top flight instrument – to ensure that the instrument is as noise free as physically possible (there is virtually no noise, if any, on this Rumour). The battery compartment has to be placed appropriately to ensure that the instrument remains balanced and of course, there is all the internal routing to enable the cabling to be connected between all these components and of course to the LEDs running up and down the neck to the headstock (for the illuminated logo). This was not a case of building the instrument and installing the components after the instrument was built, the instrument had to be built with all this in mind. This meant drilling cabling routes and cavities before the instrument is assembled. So before the wings were attached to the body, the routing through the through neck and the wings all had to be completed and line up. The body facing cavity covers had to be cut before being adhered to the maple core. This is very much a “get it right first time or write off the bass” operation – and I do not think that everybody who read the review would appreciate the complexity of assembling all that is.

Similarly, the mounting of the G Spot function pads on the wood cavity plate is another involved task; there is no margin for error. Bernie was telling me how he was sweating buckets as he was cutting the holes in which to mount them. One slip and the back plate is written off and of course, being a unique piece of wood, can never be replaced to match the grain on the back of the instrument. So whilst the installation of the G Spot on the preamp circuit is fairly straightforward, the installation of the pads can be quite an involved, skilled task. Bernie, as should be expected on an instrument of this value, installed the pads to perfection. Again, this is reflected in the price of the instrument.

So given all the information that was given in the review, I quote the opening few sentences of the review –

“There now exists a bass guitar to cater for every budget and for those willing to splash the cash, it is possible to have the instrument of your dreams. The greater the amount at your disposal, the more variety you have to chose from in terms of timber, electronics and hardware. Once you pass the £1,500 barrier, any bass should be a bit special and have something about it that makes it stand out from the crowd. Personal preferences can be accommodated to a greater extent to create a truly unique instrument.”

So, given that extract, yes, I did have the budget and chose to splash the cash to get the instrument of my dreams. I chose top grade timber with no compromise. As this was a dream bass, there was to be no compromise. How many basses have you seen with back timbers as exotic as the top timbers? OK. How about top grade flame maple sides?

How about the electronics? Nobody can dispute that the electronics in a GB are top class. They are designed entirely in house, hand assembled and soldered and can be tailored to your taste. How many electronics companies offer that level of adjustment? I was pleased to note that Adrian picked up on the feature of the circuit that compensates for harmonic cancellation. Briefly, as Adrian explained, this enables seamless panning between the neck and bridge pickup without and drop in output volume. How many other manufacturers’ preamps can do that? To the best of his knowledge, Bernie thinks that this is a unique feature of the GB preamp. Does this not all add to the justification of "super exotic"?

....and as for the hardware... how many top flight basses sport wooden tuning heads? (not only do they look great, they are actually quite functional as they weight less than standard M4 heads and coupled with the short, small headstock, prevent the dreaded neck dive)

I couldn’t agree more that basses over the £1,500 mark should be a bit special and have something about it that makes it stand out from the crowd. The LEDs certainly may not be not to everybody’s taste but certainly they make this bass stand out from the crowd. In fact, it was the only bass reviewed that had them. These LEDs are not just the normal static lights found elsewhere but are programmable to display many patterns triggered by your playing. Whilst it is understood that these lights are a bit of fun (I have rarely ever used the LEDs), the programmable aspect makes these LEDs even more useful. The programmable aspect of the LED circuit makes this a world first – at best, the only other, triggered, interactive LED system is limited to a bar graph display up the neck. For example, if the all singing dancing lights aren’t your thing, why not request the “side lights” program for on for those dimly lit stages? Very useful as those on the forum with side LEDs installed will be able to vouch for.

On the subject of LEDs, I was a little taken back by Adrian Ashton’s comment within the “Second Opinion” break out box; of course you don’t turn on the LEDs at a local pub gig. Common sense tells you that you would soon become an object of ridicule – especially if you don’t have chops to back it up. The full light show is designed for those appropriate gigs. I’m sure Stuart Clayton (owner of 2 GBs) and Mike Brooks himself (owner of 2 GBs) exercise at least some thought before reaching for the LED switches on their respective basses at a gig. Yes, LEDs are best left to those larger gigs where it is appropriate but that should go without saying... Oh - and another thing, the ladies love it. It's about time that bass players got a look in.

Similarly, with regards to the G Spot, I feel that Adrian completely missed the point as to why it is present on the instrument. When at a gig, I do not think that anybody would consider using the G Spot pitch pipe function as their chosen method of tuning because as Adrian correctly states, it emits a tone via the amp. Call me crazy, but personally, when I am gigging with the Rumour, I use a rack mount tuner which sits on top of my amp for silent tuning - but that’s just me.

The pitch pipes really come into their own when practising at home and there is not a tuner to hand (or when your perfect pitch is failing you) or when – and this is where I find it most useful – when changing strings. Simply select the relevant pitch pipe tone, string your bass up and bring it up to pitch. An additional use of the G Spot pitch pipe function for me is to select a pitch for a drone and practice your chops over it. The metronome feature is another feature of the G Spot I have grown to love. Again, no searching about for a metronome, just hit the pad on the rear of the instrument and there’s a great bass drum beat to play along to. Adjustment of the speed of the beat is done via the two pad buttons. It also worth noting that the G Spot has a memory such that the speed that was last selected resumes when the metronome function is reinstated. It is also worth noting that the operation and position of the pads remove the risk of accidentally activating the G Spot.

So... why did I have the G Spot and LEDs installed? Why did I have front and back facings on the body and the headstock? Why did I have such ridiculous flame maple sides? Why did I have a backlit mother of pearl GB logo on the headstock (not seen in the review) instead of say, plastic? Why did I have laser routed cavity covers and magnetic battery compartment (not seen in the review)? I’ll tell you – it was always intended to be an exotic instrument above the norm and you won’t find all of these features anywhere else, it is a bit of fun (and we all need that from time to time – the amount of people who I have bought a smile to their face whilst showing off the LED and G Spot features off makes it worthwhile)... and above all, I could.

So whilst I take on board Adrian’s comment that I could have bought the Nordstrand and the Mayones and a cheap holiday to boot, similarly, a Bugatti Veyron owner could have bought a Ferrari F430 and a Lamborghini Murcielago and a holiday in the Bahamas... yet they still chose to buy the Bugatti Veyron. It’s a cliché I know, but it’s a case of different strokes for different folks. I’m more than happy with my GB Rumour, thank you...

Yes, these basses are expensive, but given the amount of work that goes into them and the custom nature of the instruments I think that it is justified. Even the subtle burst finish around the edges of the front and rear fascias (including both the body and the headstock) is attention to detail beyond the norm - I don't believe any of the other instruments in the review had this attention to detail in the finishing process. Every instrument is built to the customer’s specification. I wonder if BGM would have kept making such remarks about the price if it had the Fodera logo on the headstock. I guess not – it certainly would not have had the features of the GB and as it stands, I would pitch this bass against any Fodera... or any other bass for that matter. Perhaps the instruments chosen to sit alongside that particular Rumour in the shootout were not suitable and it was fighting below its weight? I guess if such a shootout were to happen, there would be no credibility in the review however – because two of the main reviews for BGM play GBs. There would be always that underlying thought in the reader’s mind as to whether or not there is any bias involved. I would urge any reader to ask themselves the following question... “Why do these guys use GBs?”. I can tell you that it’s not because they get them free. Everybody who plays a GB, pays for them.

The review states that the bass was reviewed on the basis of not having LEDs, back wood facings or G Spot... why? It DOES have these features so why ignore them? I found it somewhat amusing given the fact that these features would be discarded when considering the instruments; Adrian chose to focus on them so much in his second opinion breakout box. Are these not elements, given the definition of the word “exotic” at the beginning of this text, that makes the bass such? Should we discard the attention to detail in the laser routing of the Wood and Tronics and Rumour’s control cavities because they don’t “affect the playability, sound or additional merits of the bass?” – it is like discarding features on the grounds that the other basses have not got them. For example, if the backs of the basses aren’t important, why was a photograph of the cavity of the Wood and Tronic bass with “note screwless fixtures” featured? A little consistency at least please!

I know that these reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt but I thought I would offer a further insight into that particular Rumour. Mike Brookes and Stuart Clayton, both of this forum and reviewers at BGM get to see a lot of basses. Both of them own two GBs. I think that speaks volumes.

PS – the Nordy scale length is actually 34.5”.

Edited December 30, 2008 by EBS_freak

[birdy]

Well Said Russ. I haven't actually played the Rumour that 'won' suprisingly as I have seen it in the flesh but I have played the Nordy and the W&T and think there relative positions were probably right.

Most other GB basses that I have played including my own would have won the shoot out as far as I am concerned.

I was most shocked when the magazine reviewed a Roscoe SKB 3005 a few months ago and didn't rate it very highly so one mans meat really is anothers poison.

I would have been more interested in a Super Jazz shoot out between Nordstrand, Sadowsky, Alleva Coppolo, Celinder etc etc.

About time someone reviewed a Shuker in the mag as well isn't it although we all know the GB would kick its arse :-)

Steve

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='birdy' post='364561' date='Dec 28 2008, 01:55 AM']Well Said Russ. I haven't actually played the Rumour that 'won' suprisingly as I have seen it in the flesh but I have played the Nordy and the W&T and think there relative positions were probably right.

Most other GB basses that I have played including my own would have won the shoot out as far as I am concerned.

I was most shocked when the magazine reviewed a Roscoe SKB 3005 a few months ago and didn't rate it very highly so one mans meat really is anothers poison.

I would have been more interested in a Super Jazz shoot out between Nordstrand, Sadowsky, Alleva Coppolo, Celinder etc etc.

About time someone reviewed a Shuker in the mag as well isn't it although we all know the GB would kick its arse :-)

Steve[/quote]

Yeah - I think that Super Jazz shoot out would be quite interesting. As an aside, can a jazz be classed as exotic? Or even "super exotic"? - especially when it is donned in a flat colour. Don't get me wrong, I am a big jazz bass fan - but I certainly wouldn't use "exotic" as a word to describe a jazz bass...

I was somewhat surprised at the Roscoe review also... it all seems very... inconsistent and odd... as is the first ever "second opinion" box on a shootout article - what was the underlying message in that I wonder.

I'm staying out the Shuker battle!!

[birdy]

Certainly some Jazzes could be exotic but not a blue one in my opinion.

As for the Roscoe I have now owned three and played another couple and they have all been exceptional instruments on a par with anything I have played so the review was baffling but maybe they just had the odd one out?!?

When you get to a certain level of 'exoticness' it should come down to personal choice I think rather than something being 'better' than something else.

As for the Shukers I have never actually played one so can't really comment but its all good fun.

I have owned an Overwater and it was a top quality instrument but just not my cup of tea.

Steve

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='birdy' post='364571' date='Dec 28 2008, 02:12 AM']Certainly some Jazzes could be exotic but not a blue one in my opinion.

As for the Roscoe I have now owned three and played another couple and they have all been exceptional instruments on a par with anything I have played so the review was baffling but maybe they just had the odd one out?!?

When you get to a certain level of 'exoticness' it should come down to personal choice I think rather than something being 'better' than something else.

As for the Shukers I have never actually played one so can't really comment but its all good fun.

I have owned an Overwater and it was a top quality instrument but just not my cup of tea.

Steve[/quote]

...but it did have a matching headstock... and it could get P bass tones... pretty impressive stuff for a jazz. (erm... get a P?)

I would be interested in seeing that Roscoe as I have played a few now and certainly I would have thought that it would have got a better review than it did - as you say - maybe they got a bad one...?

Hmm... this whole "exotic" thing could get quite interesting. What does "exotic" mean to everybody?

[mcgraham]

Thanks for the detailed insight Russ. I'd love to try yours out at some point, as I've not tried a GB before.

I have to admit, I've only tried the Nordy and the W&T, and I will concede that this particular W&T wasn't the most happening tonally. It was waaay too woody for my tastes, you'd need to dial in more low mids to get it to be useable in most band mixes (IMO), but then W&T are designed with the more solo player in mind. However, I'm surprised that the construction didn't get rated more highly as this aspect of the W&T turned me on to getting one of their basses for myself. I'd be interested to see what they would make of the one I'm getting in January.

The Nordy to me, was just a well built jazz. The neck profile was OK, the sound was jazz-like, the preamp was useful (although I tried with one an Audere and I found it to be a tad 'edgy' in the tonality it imparted. In short, I wouldn't have paid that much for a Nordy as it isn't a super exotic to me, and although it plays well and oozes quality I believe you can get an equal level jazz with a little looking around. Just my opinion.

The GMR and Mayones, I believe I have picked up a couple (they all look the same to me TBH) in stores and they felt solid, but didn't ooze quality and craftsmanship in the way that the W&T spoke to me. They felt a bit cheap in the way that Sandberg feel a bit cheap. Not exceedingly cheap, but I'm just explaining what I'd found.

Personally, I don't totally agree with their opinions, and my slight disagreements would result in a re-ordering. Nevertheless, I can kind of see why they arrived at the outcome they did.

Re: Roscoes - I'd always loved the look of Roscoe's, and from the tonal descriptions plastered all over TB I couldn't wait to try one. When I finally got the chance at BassDirect (thanks Mark), I was sad to say that it wasn't quite what I was looking for. A bit too aggressive, slightly too nasal, and a very raw edgey tone. Great quality, and they have fantastic top woods. the body size and sculpting is also great, feels very ergonomic, however I didn't rate their tone (personally).

Re: GB basses - I read about people having them, but very few people have explained their choice in this regard, I'd be interested to hear why they picked GB and not someone else. Steve, what prompted you to get a GB?

[birdy]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='364605' date='Dec 28 2008, 08:27 AM']Re: GB basses - I read about people having them, but very few people have explained their choice in this regard, I'd be interested to hear why they picked GB and not someone else. Steve, what prompted you to get a GB?[/quote]

I get through a lot of basses as I like to try different things out to see what I like and what I don't. The GB came my way by accident really. I happened to hear Russ playing his Spitfire at a gig and got to look at it close up and have a play and was very impressed. The build quality is fantastic and playability superb but more importantly the preamp is extremely flexible and you can get amazing tones out of them. The slap sound can be super hifi, especially through an EBS rig yet you can do dark and dub as well. Within a few weeks of trying Russ's Spitfire and liking it one came up for sale on this forum so I snagged it as they say and am still liking it a lot.

Certainly worth getting your hands on one and having a look. Myself and Russ are fairly local to you if you fancy trying one out one day!

Steve

[ezbass]

I read it, but really couldn't too excited about it really. It was all very expensive exotica (so they should all be good anyway) without a bog standard 5 (Fender MIA J5 for instance) as a control/point of reference, so it was just going to be minutiae preference of the reviewers (true for any shoot out I guess). The GB won, well it was the most expensive by quite a bit.

[bass_ferret]

Steve has also been lucky enough to play my GB's. Mine were built for me like Russ. I got my first one, the black fretless, cos I wanted a new fretless to replace the Ibanez Musician I had that was a bit lighter as the Musician is one heavy M/F. Thats what Bernie built for me, the same neck dimensions, half the weight (even with 4 9v as I have side LED's). Its a beaut.

Loved it so much I got the red one built but as I did not want to get just a fretted one the same I had a 69 P pup and EBS actives. Still plays and sounds fantastic. Cos I wanted light basses they are both made of swamp ash - that was my choice.

I find it ironic that BGM reviews custom basses that have been built to a particular customers specification and then criticises those specifications rather than the bass.

[mcgraham]

That's pretty cool BF and Steve! I've always admired your jet black GB. And a great reason to get a custom. Did any other custom builder take your fancy?

I wouldn't have said they criticised the customer specs, they just pointed out why they weren't what they'd pick, whilst still acknowledging that it's a nice option for some.

I would've preferred a slightly more in depth performance review of each, as ultimately these basses are meant to be played and not hung on the wall or superfluous features discussed. Obviously these features warrant discussion, but I'd be interested to read a more in depth review of the performance, in the same way you'd want to read about the handling and overall performance/feel of a car than just discussion of the body work.

Mark

[alexclaber]

I wonder what they'd make of my RIM Custom 5? So much tone, such a huge sound - but I doubt the average reviewer would like the extra-long scale, heavier strings, higher action and all passive electronics that are so fundamental to the sound and feel of this instrument. I can understand reviewing high-end but non-custom instruments but once you get down to instruments like mine, or indeed that GB, it's down to how similar your tastes are to the reviewer's. I guess it sells magazines and gives custom builders more exposure which can only be a good thing, but this kind of shoot-out with rankings is rather bizarre.

Alex

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='ezbass' post='364793' date='Dec 28 2008, 01:23 PM']The GB won, well it was the most expensive by quite a bit.[/quote]

There it is again... was this particular example of a GB Rumour too "super exotic" (whatever that means?) for that particular BGM shootout?

Edited December 29, 2008 by EBS_freak

[mcgraham]

[quote]There it is again... was this particular example of a GB Rumour too "super exotic" (whatever that means?) for that particular BGM shootout?[/quote]

I'd like to think that above a certain price point with respectable luthiers, the extra cash doesn't provide a better constructed bass than the less expensive. That is to say, it doesn't mean that the cheaper basses they make are any less of a 'players bass' than the super spec'd up ones such as the one they reviewed.

Alex, that's one of the reasons that I'd like to see a more objective review, i.e. one that tries to bring out/focus in on the strengths of each instrument. For example, I would say that yours is an attempt to have a more 'transparent' and acoustic instrument (albeit electric) with greater harmonic content and better tone from the increased scale length. Whilst a player may not [i]like[/i] your bass the advantages (or at least the features that are supposed to provide these advantages) should be made clear.

Mark

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='365304' date='Dec 29 2008, 09:08 AM']I'd like to think that above a certain price point with respectable luthiers, the extra cash doesn't provide a better constructed bass than the less expensive. That is to say, it doesn't mean that the cheaper basses they make are any less of a 'players bass' than the super spec'd up ones such as the one they reviewed.

Mark[/quote]

Absolutely - no matter who makes your bass, each one should be made to the highest of standards to the best of your chosen luthier's ability. I've never played a bad GB, Roscoe or Sei - ranging from both the no frills models, to the more fully loaded examples. My Spitfire, although not as loaded as the Rumour, is still a fabulous instrument and remains one of my favourite basses of all time. It has the same quality of finish, build quality etc...

[mcgraham]

[quote]Absolutely - no matter who makes your bass, each one should be made to the highest of standards to the best of your chosen luthier's ability. I've never played a bad GB, Roscoe or Sei - ranging from both the no frills models, to the more fully loaded examples. My Spitfire, although not as loaded as the Rumour, is still a fabulous instrument and remains one of my favourite basses of all time. It has the same quality of finish, build quality etc...[/quote]

Indeed. It just wouldn't make sense for a custom builder to put out basses that were any less of a representation than their best basses. Unfortunately this is entirely subjective, obviously including sound but also down to feel and construction. For example, the review mentioned that the satin finish on the W&T made it feel cheaper and less exotic than the price suggested; however I'd rather have a bass with satin than gloss (most of the time) as there's other drawbacks I find with having gloss finish that satin completely sidesteps.

Horses for courses I guess!

Mark

[mcgraham]

[quote]Myself and Russ are fairly local to you if you fancy trying one out one day![/quote]

Cheers Steve! I'd be well up for that sometime!

Mark

[urb]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='365496' date='Dec 29 2008, 02:40 PM']Absolutely - no matter who makes your bass, each one should be made to the highest of standards to the best of your chosen luthier's ability. I've never played a bad GB, Roscoe or Sei - ranging from both the no frills models, to the more fully loaded examples. My Spitfire, although not as loaded as the Rumour, is still a fabulous instrument and remains one of my favourite basses of all time. It has the same quality of finish, build quality etc...[/quote]

+1

My fretless is made by a guy called Jeff Chapman, not at all related to the Chaman Stick fella by the way, and it is a simply stunning bass to play, it's very understated and not exactly exotic and Jeff remains something of an obscure builder but his work is outstanding, it's a totally different beast to my Sei but I love it and feel very lucky made me the only fretless I will ever need.

I'm staying well out of the politics of which luthier is better etc, as like you say Russ I've played great basses by many top luthiers, and all had their plus and minus points, but like you've clearly stated compairing custom made instruments is a bit weird as the individual preferances of each player who commissions a bass to suit their needs and their needs only, is surely going to fall foul of the reviewer's individual tastes? I also agree that the GB was the only really truly exotic bass in that 'shootout' and considering the level of workmanship on the GB and the price tag a fairer comparison may have been between a Fodera, Overwater, Sei, Jerzy Drozd, Ritter, F Bass, or a fully spec'd up Nordstrand, because including the Super Jazz I agree is a bit of a misnomer...

Anyway it's all horses for courses isn't it? One man's dream boat is another man's idea of bass hell, I know my Sei is not to every taste or playing style but I love it and it works perfectly for me, and that's the way it should be as it's exactly what I asked for... I'm very happy with my choice and I considered all the choices I had available to me in the UK and Sei was the one for me.

Next time it'd be good to see clearer perameters on which these top end basses were judged on, but then again I don't know if it's even worth doing these kind of high end shoot outs, as once you have more 2K to spend on an instrument then a whole world of other factors come into play with your choice of bass, it's a bit more than just a bass to get you through the next year or two with your new funk/metal/blues band it more like a bass for life...IMHO anyway.


Cheers

Mike

[4000]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='364469' date='Dec 27 2008, 09:18 PM']Once you're into this kind level of price and customisation surely it comes down almost entirely to personal taste?

Alex[/quote]

Absolutely. I've played several GBs and one W&T and I would just say they are different, and different people will prefer them. I liked them both for different reasons, although possibly slightly preferred the feel of the W&T personally. Tests like this should be taken with a pinch of salt in terms of which bass is actually best for [i]you[/i].

[doctor_of_the_bass]

[quote name='4000' post='365889' date='Dec 29 2008, 11:39 PM']Absolutely. I've played several GBs and one W&T and I would just say they are different, and different people will prefer them. I liked them both for different reasons, although possibly slightly preferred the feel of the W&T personally. Tests like this should be taken with a pinch of salt in terms of which bass is actually best for [i]you[/i].[/quote]

Spot on! Fully agree!

(nice bass tho Russ!)

[Gunsfreddy2003]

What's the point? Bernie would just win again but this time with a Spitfire!!



[quote name='EBS_freak' post='364564' date='Dec 28 2008, 02:02 AM']Yeah - I think that Super Jazz shoot out would be quite interesting. As an aside, can a jazz be classed as exotic? Or even "super exotic"? - especially when it is donned in a flat colour. Don't get me wrong, I am a big jazz bass fan - but I certainly wouldn't use "exotic" as a word to describe a jazz bass...

I was somewhat surprised at the Roscoe review also... it all seems very... inconsistent and odd... as is the first ever "second opinion" box on a shootout article - what was the underlying message in that I wonder.

I'm staying out the Shuker battle!![/quote]

[molan]

I must admit that parts of this month's comparison did leave me a little baffled as I didn't think that there would be many people out there who would have lined up this particular mix of instruments as a genuine selection prior to an actual purchase.

I could see a 'UK Luthier's" type article with GB, Overwater, Sei, Shuker et al or high end continental Europeans / USA super expensive / exotic jazzes etc. etc. but this group baffled me a little. I agree, to an extent, that once you're over £1,500 then price becomes less important to a degree but even so I would have expected something like this to have matched a set of basses within say £200 - £300 rather than the wider gap that meant they were almost having to apologise for how good the GB might have been.

It felt to me like someone had come up with the idea for the article but failed to get the actual basses sorted for a really good direct comparison. So many potential basses to choose from but this was a bit of a mish mash for me.

Still, made me think I must try a GB some time

Maybe they should ask BC people if they could borrow a few basses, between us we could find enough really interesting instruments to fill a few magazines' worth of articles!

PS - If there are any Bass magazine journos on this site then I'd recommend a new proof reader, every issue has mistakes in it and, in these days of computerised checking processes, it's a bit crap to spot typo and layout mistakes every month - apologies if this makes me sound a pernickety old git :blush: