Short Scale / Travel / Portable Basses

[Prosebass]

Hi Chaps

lots of good ideas although I think the really small Tanglewood bass is a little too far removed from a usable bass that would be taken seriously with most 34" scale players.
The Status is a good bass but again headless is not universally accepted and body wise its not the most attractive to my eyes.
I have a few basses in the workshop and as soon as they are finished will get the prototype photos on here for your perusal.

[crez5150]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='367792' date='Jan 1 2009, 03:09 PM']How about something headless like the little Zon bass, Status Streamline, or Steinberger/Hohner? I know Rob Green designed the Streamline to be stowable in aircraft overhead lockers.[/quote]

+1 on the Status Streamline...... May look to get a 5 string version as soon as they are available.... Mmmmmm Drooool!!

[BigBeatNut]

I'm very interested in this.

My travel requirements come from two directions. (1) I regularly (twice a year, sometimes for 2 weeks) find myself abroad in the same place without a bass. Not good. (2) About every a couple of years a friend organises a small festival abroad. Since I'm not always in a formal band, just jamming, I have to weigh up a whole bunch of stuff (like how much use I will get from it / value of the bass / risk of damage in transit / travel by rail or by air) to decide which bass to take. I've also done the odd gig abroad with my current band.

So far I've come up with a solution to (2) (cheap squier 5 string / SKB bass safe / total investment 125 quid) but not (1). The solution to (1) at the moment seems to be purchase of a very cheap fender (4-string) clone to permanently leave abroad as a practice (not gigging) bass.

So if you want to entrust a bass to me for a couple of weeks, I can promise to tell you how well it 'flies' . Have you considered a hard case for flying in your plans ? (One of the reasons I've gone for fenderish basses is the ready availability of 'lite-flite' cases and the like). If you're producing a short scale bass presumably you'll need a custom case ?

Noticed an earlier discussion on strings, and you said you'd be using standard strings I think. Does that mean you're going for a standard short-scale bass speaking length of 30 inches ? I ask because I have experienced string breakage from winding 34 inch scale strings onto the tuners of a 30.5 scale bass. The fat bit does not like going round the tuner, certainly on flatwounds. One solution to this of course, if you're going shorter than 30 inches, is to accommodate the extra string length somehow at the other end, e.g. through-body stringing.

Very interested to see what you come up with.

Andy

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='369808' date='Jan 4 2009, 11:47 AM']...but again headless is not universally accepted...[/quote]

You may well find that shorter than 30" is even less desirable than headless.

[BigBeatNut]

[quote name='BigBeatNut' post='369906' date='Jan 4 2009, 01:31 PM']Noticed an earlier discussion on strings, and you said you'd be using standard strings I think. Does that mean you're going for a standard short-scale bass speaking length of 30 inches ? I ask because I have experienced string breakage from winding 34 inch scale strings onto the tuners of a 30.5 scale bass. The fat bit does not like going round the tuner, certainly on flatwounds. One solution to this of course, if you're going shorter than 30 inches, is to accommodate the extra string length somehow at the other end, e.g. through-body stringing.[/quote]
Oops ... just noticed your very first post does in fact say 28.5 inches ... I guess you will be winding away that extra string length somewhere ... and somebody (you or the purchaser) will need to consider custom cases for flying. ... You can't guarantee to carry-on an instrument these days.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='369908' date='Jan 4 2009, 01:32 PM']You may well find that shorter than 30" is even less desirable than headless.[/quote]

I think that will depend on the playability and sound. 28.5" scale is basically a 34" scale with a capo on the third fret.
Although I am aiming for a very playable and good sounding bass I am also building these with the major factors being portability, appeal to younger / small handed players and mass market. As with all design parameters compromises have to be made.
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating as the saying goes.


[quote name='BigBeatNut' post='369929' date='Jan 4 2009, 01:55 PM']Oops ... just noticed your very first post does in fact say 28.5 inches ... I guess you will be winding away that extra string length somewhere ... and somebody (you or the purchaser) will need to consider custom cases for flying. ... You can't guarantee to carry-on an instrument these days.[/quote]

Part of the design is for it to fit in a case 36" x 12" so yes a custom case is being designed along with the bass and will probably be ABS.
Using full size winding posts I have never had a problem with roundwounds when winding the full string on the tuners.
The design needs to be able to utilise "normal" strings as I am aiming at the mass market and do not want to go down the road of custom strings or only being able to use a certain string.

[Huge Hands]

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' post='367768' date='Jan 1 2009, 02:38 PM']I imagine a headphone output would be useful on a travel bass,[/quote]

+1.

A cracking idea IMHO, much more preferable than adaptor/belt boxes, for the sake of a rout and a battery box during manufacture, surely?

[HarryPotter]

Hi Paul, hows the project going?

Thanks to Santa I'm now a total convert to Shorties (your old Westone is now in Semi retirement).

There is definately a gap in the market for mid-lower price basses, after the beginners sub £150 stuff the next thing is the £4-600 Mustang (as far as I'm aware).

My shortie wish list would be something like the below:

A comfy, fast playing neck.

Make sure it's not made out of balsa wood (nor Agathis - 'shudders') - some half decent tone wood please, although I'm not expecting swamp ash etc.

Decent bridge, tuners and a truss rod that works (that is not made from monkey metal and designed to take an allen key measured in cubits so that it will adjust properly).

Decent strap buttons (a case of not overlooking the basic essentials).

Standard size pups & pots etc. so if I do wanna change 'em I'm not limited by choice and if there's space make sure the pots cavity is big enough for the modders to bang in some active electronics if they want to. In fact, standard size components across the board is a very good idea, it's partly (IMO) why SX's are so well liked - a good product that can be made great with a good choice of off the shelf mods (although if you get the hardware good enough changing it won't be necessary - like Squiers VM's the hardware is good enough that it doesn't need chaning even if you're usually so inclined).

If you can make it have a half decent tone out of the box - especially on the E string (acoustically - to me at least - they just sound 'wrong' even though they're fine when plugged in) then that would be great.

I'd offer to try one out (I probably am your target market) but I don't think I'm a good enough bassist to help even though by day I am a Senior Design Engineer so the feedback would (hopefully) be fairly intelligent.

A shame really as I could even come and fetch it :S

These are all just my ramblings and my opinions, hopefully it could restart a bit of brainstorming.

Edited January 9, 2009 by HarryPotter

[Prosebass]

Hi mate good to hear from you.

Plenty to think about there and you are welcome to come and have a play with the first ones.
What shorty did santa bring you then ?

The project is taking a lot of time up as it needs to be done right both in respect of the quality of the bass and getting it right commercially.
Will update with more info as soon as its available.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Prosebass

[HarryPotter]

Santa got me an Epiphone EB-0 which now has the thumping tractor of a pup you sold me in it (and yes you were right about it subtelty or lack of).

I've managed to get a go of a few shorties as well since then and I like them all, far more satisfying for me to play than full scale basses.

First rule of any serious project - 'it will always take twice as long as you first thought to do it properly'

Amen.

I look forward to reading your updates, and trying one of them out would be a pleasure

I can even dump the missus off with some relatives in town

Win win

[Prosebass]

[quote name='HarryPotter' post='391342' date='Jan 25 2009, 11:29 PM']Santa got me an Epiphone EB-0 which now has the thumping tractor of a pup you sold me in it (and yes you were right about it subtelty or lack of).

I've managed to get a go of a few shorties as well since then and I like them all, far more satisfying for me to play than full scale basses.

First rule of any serious project - 'it will always take twice as long as you first thought to do it properly'

Amen.

I look forward to reading your updates, and trying one of them out would be a pleasure

I can even dump the missus off with some relatives in town

Win win [/quote]

Excellent I think the bass world needs more Mike Watts
I wonder if his bass turned up after it was stolen ?

Now this to me is bass porn !!!! forget you fancy woods and multi - laminates

[attachment=19231:6a00d834...34_800wi.jpg]

Just looks so good......and you don't need to polish it....

[HarryPotter]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='391797' date='Jan 26 2009, 02:28 PM']Excellent I think the bass world needs more Mike Watts
I wonder if his bass turned up after it was stolen ?

Now this to me is bass porn !!!! forget you fancy woods and multi - laminates

[attachment=19231:6a00d834...34_800wi.jpg]

Just looks so good......and you don't need to polish it.... [/quote]

Hand on heart I don't have it

That too is my kind of bass, while I love graded wood (you should see some of the gun stocks I have) I'd much rather have a bass that was beaten to hell but plays like a dream and sounds even better.

[henry norton]

I'm looking around at short scale basses right now so this thread's been quite interesting. I've always played Fender and Musicman basses, and always thought gibson style short scales were boomy, wooly and not versatile enough for any modern setting. That was before I tried out an early 70s EB-3, strung with flatwounds. It was light, comfortable to play and had a fantastic array of sounds - from a booming thud to a very bright twang. A snip at about 800 quid. The big problem I can see is every (new) short scale bass on the market seems to be made for mega-cheapness rather than comfort or versatility (Alembic asides, but who's got ten grand to spare in these harsh times?). Because of this, nobody is ever going to try a short scale bass with decent pickups and hardware. I don't mean EMGs and gold plating -just a few steps above rock bottom

The ultra short scale sounds interesting although I would rather forgo the extra inch and a half if it really affected the sound - I suppose there is a practical limit to scale length before it really does end up like playing a bunch of elastic bands. The time might be better spent on a clever headstock design, like the Rickenbacker 12 string with the pegs mounted both flat and at right angles.

I'd love to try one, so long as it offered some quality and versatility.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='henry norton' post='392110' date='Jan 26 2009, 08:46 PM']The ultra short scale sounds interesting although I would rather forgo the extra inch and a half if it really affected the sound - I suppose there is a practical limit to scale length before it really does end up like playing a bunch of elastic bands. The time might be better spent on a clever headstock design, like the Rickenbacker 12 string with the pegs mounted both flat and at right angles.[/quote]

I've been experimenting with heavier string gauges to avoid the "rubber band" short scale syndrome. Using a heavier gauge keeps the string tension high and this combined with a very short stiff neck enables a low action. The flipside of this is I don't want a 4 stringer that feels more like a 5 stringer as to a lot of players it will feel wrong , so its a lot of testing and a balancing act between tension and gauge.

[henry norton]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='392335' date='Jan 27 2009, 01:36 AM']I've been experimenting with heavier string gauges to avoid the "rubber band" short scale syndrome. Using a heavier gauge keeps the string tension high and this combined with a very short stiff neck enables a low action. The flipside of this is I don't want a 4 stringer that feels more like a 5 stringer as to a lot of players it will feel wrong , so its a lot of testing and a balancing act between tension and gauge.[/quote]

Yeah, string gauge (or more significantly string type) seems to be much more important to most short scale bass users. Alot of people seem to end up with flat wounds, although this could be as much to do with harking back to the sixties and expecting a certain 'classic' sound instead of actually listening to what the bass [i]could[/i] do. I'm certain it's posssible to get a full range of useable tones and timbres out of a short scale bass - it just needs some experimentation. Good luck with it.

[Dr.Dave]

I've no beef with short scale instruments or their players but I'm less convinced that a 'travel' bass in a shorter than 34" scale would be of much help to 'regular' scale players. I should think most would take a bass on hol. or similar for practise purposes and where's the point in practising on a bass that's so different to your usual one??

Something along the lines of a Hohner B2 is cheap to find used and is 34" scale - that would be more use to me. If scale length is to be sacrificed by players who normally play 34" for the sake of portability - why not go the whole hog and get an Ashbory??

Just my opinion - I'll be just as interested to see what Prosebass comes up with but I'd be thinking of it as a full time , portable instrument rather than a part time 'travel' one.

[SJA]

apparently Hofner made a 28in scale bass version of their Shorty travel guitar-
[url="http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/vintage-hofner/factfiles/shorty/main.html"]http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/vintage-hof...horty/main.html[/url]

[Prosebass]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='392517' date='Jan 27 2009, 10:52 AM']I've no beef with short scale instruments or their players but I'm less convinced that a 'travel' bass in a shorter than 34" scale would be of much help to 'regular' scale players. I should think most would take a bass on hol. or similar for practise purposes and where's the point in practising on a bass that's so different to your usual one??

Something along the lines of a Hohner B2 is cheap to find used and is 34" scale - that would be more use to me. If scale length is to be sacrificed by players who normally play 34" for the sake of portability - why not go the whole hog and get an Ashbory??

Just my opinion - I'll be just as interested to see what Prosebass comes up with but I'd be thinking of it as a full time , portable instrument rather than a part time 'travel' one.[/quote]

Good points and duly noted. Several manufacturers already offer excellent "travel" basses that are 34" scale which is why I am doing something different. I disagree with your comment [quote]where's the point in practising on a bass that's so different to your usual one??[/quote] as the 28.5 inch scale is just the same as a 34" scale bass with a capo on the 3rd fret !
I am designing and hoping to produce these as an addition to a bassists arsenal and not as an alternative. I see the Ashbory as a completely different animal as it is not fretted, has silicon rubber strings, half the scale length and sounds nothing like a "normal" electric bass.
From comments I have received I think your opinion is in the minority (not that it isn't valid) and as with most business ideas you have to go with your gut instinct and try it. It may not work and in that case I will try something else.
Cheers...Paul

Edited February 2, 2009 by Prosebass

[Prosebass]

[quote name='SJA' post='394095' date='Jan 28 2009, 09:54 PM']apparently Hofner made a 28in scale bass version of their Shorty travel guitar-
[url="http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/vintage-hofner/factfiles/shorty/main.html"]http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/vintage-hof...horty/main.html[/url]
[/quote]

I have been looking for one for ages as it has construction and style elements of its big brother the S7B which I own. It would be a good bass to reintroduce me thinks !

You can see the family resemblance. Its been my "old faithful" since 1981 !

[attachment=19573:S7B.jpg]

Edited February 2, 2009 by Prosebass